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Post by gracebyfaith on Dec 19, 2007 11:12:35 GMT -5
Mayberry, thank you thank you thank you!! Your insight and clear-headedness is a blessing to me, always has been...such a relief to know that you also need "progress reports", remember those from school!?!? Unfortunately the school progress reports only came when one was failing, or in danger of failing soon...and I expect the "all is well" report.
I suspect that I may have control issues that need to be struggled through, and that my need for updates could very well be tied in here... And I am also afraid that this addiction, like maybe no other, breeds in silence and secrecy, and want H to realize that so he will desire to voluntarily update, with me.
It very much holds true. I *think* I may have said that (ok, not so eloquently, but I believe he got the point ;D ), and I am hoping beyond hope that he will begin to. Per H, however, he is not having any struggles. Which I believe, for now. But I do know they will come, and I hope he has the sharing mechanism in place for when they do.
I am wondering if I should share this entire exchange with H... Thank you again, Mayberry.
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Post by Mayberry on Dec 19, 2007 11:18:13 GMT -5
That's great. If he's not having any struggles, then your "sharing time" together can be the joyful one of "new things I'm learning, new tricks I'm learning to keep myself in a new & healthy spot", right? Right? I guess that is part of what I left out...to be a better companion, I need to share my good & my bad and hear my husband's good & bad. Regularly. And I *will* ask for what I need, because to NOT do so is, for me, to harbor resentment and a grudging spirit. Bring on those triumphs! Bring on those new ideas! Bring on those failures too! Someone who loves me has the right (and, one can argue, the need) to know me as the multi-dimension person I am (and that's an exchange that works both ways, IMO).
If you think it would be helpful, you are always welcome to share anything I write to you (or to myself, for that matter) with your husband.
I'm holding you in special thought and prayer today and will check in a bit later in case you need company today. You are a precious soul, and I have faith that you will find the right balance for yourself in your marriage and that, with time, the wounds will heal.
Sending you ((((((HUGS)))))). J
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Post by LookingUp on Dec 19, 2007 18:32:10 GMT -5
Hi grace,
Our situations sound similar only my husband hasn't done counseling or had an accountability partner. He says it's been 1 year that he's been sober and it's been easy for him; he realizes that I'm still struggling. Thank God he's no longer in the "get over it" mode.
I would love to have periodic updates of "status of the addiction" and "status of the marriage" but it's much too infreuquent and too minimal for me to gain trust. He knows that; but, like you, there's not much else I can do except pray and let him know the trust is at a standstill until he does his part. If he wants to live with a distant, fearful, untrusting wife the rest of his life - then that's his choice.
I have chosen to forgive my husband because I believe forgiveness helps me not become bitter and is what Jesus told us we had to do for us to be forgiven by God (Matthew 6 - Lord's Prayer). Is it easy to forgive somebody who's not doing their part to make amends? Absolutely not; it's very difficult but the emotions are starting to line up with that difficult decision - I feel like I've forgiven him but it took a while for that to happen.
What I've done is separated forgiveness and trust. I give forgiveness because that's how the Holy Spirit has prompted me to go. I will not offer trust until my husband acts consistently trustworthy. He is quite aware that I do not trust him and that responsibility to earn trust is on him. He is also aware that I pull back from him (detach) because of that lack of trust. It's taken a year, but I think over the past six weeks that he's finally starting to grasp that doing the dishes and doing household chores is not gaining any trust - it's earning him appreciation and friendly "thank you's" from me - but it's not making me feel trust. I can't make him be open; however, I can gently speak my truth that I can not and will not trust him until he earns it.... let him know I love him and hope we can restore our marriage that I think he's worth it.
Although your husband is sober; it doesn't not sound like he's grown a lot in recovery - in learning and relearning those intimacy and empathy skills that his addiction stole from him. Is he willing to read any books together that would help him learn those skills?
If somebody would tell me they'd never seen anybody recover as fast as my husband - I would feel panic. I'd just presume that it was new BS trying to gaslight me and minimize the pain he'd caused me and our marriage. I would feel more insecure that way then I would if he was struggling and slipping and being honest. Having said that, I was delivered from drugs when I became a Christian - and have never wanted to go do that again - I truly do believe it can happen. I pray that happened for your husband.
Does he know that you don't see or hear him have his quiet times with God, so that is another take-it-by-faith issue - which is difficult when he's lost so much trust?
It seems he's expecting you to forgive and forgive and act like all's fine - accept his reality as yours; when he's not willing to meet you half way in doing things that calm your fears or accept your reality as valid. That seems very unfair. I'd also feel like I'd been ganged up on by your husband, his counselor and accountability partner - without you having an "authority" or "experienced person" to help your issues be heard at that meeting. I would be very disappointed in that dynamic. Could your husband go with you to your counselor to help him understand the dynamics you're going through? After all, you were willing to go with him to the meeting with his advisors.
I love the book "Five Love Languages" but I bought my copy before I knew about my husband's PA - I understand why that would be a trigger - and what he said is a fallacy. Have you considered e-mailing the author how that sentence came across? (If I still had my book, I'd write - but I gave my book to my step-daughter and it never came home.)
LookingUp
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Post by gracebyfaith on Dec 20, 2007 8:22:09 GMT -5
Thank you, LU...and Mayberry, again.
You know, I had thought that I had done that too. I did not say in the meeting (which was suggested by H's accountability partner) that I did not forgive my husband, and I am wondering what it is in my demeanor that made him come to that conclusion. I had said that my biggest fears were this happening again, and that I would never know what was going on in my H's heart, and that I know that God will be with me (always) should it happen again, but that I often forget that H has God's strength to draw on as well.
Accountability partner (I'll name him W for ease of typing) asked me these questions: When was the last time you had reason to not believe H? The answer is late June Has he lied to you since then? (There was one lie, but I forgot it at the time and said no) Has he given you reason not to trust him since June? I said no.
I believe that's when the unforgiveness discussion began. W said that is a long time, and that my H is probably feeling discouraged right about now. I wanted to mention the "as long as they use and lie, it will take us twice as long to recover" guideline. The problem for me here, is that H has never given me any reasons not to trust him the whole time he was lying/using. I had NO IDEA. Nothing changed, that's one of the most panic inducing things about H's use - there's not much difference to see.
Fortunately, H's take was "if you need to talk, baby, you talk to me....I don't blame you and I thank you for still just being here". My H is really cool that way.
I did tell H that I thought this response was interesting, since I don't see this things...he committed to me that we would pray together in the evenings, and do a devotional together.
They gave me a pamphlet on forgiveness, and the pastor wrote out a formula, which goes Trust = fruit of repentance + forgiveness divided by time.
And forgiveness = a promise not to hold this against the other person. Not to talk to others, dwell on it, or allow it to hinder relations. Do men understand how this rips us to our core, as women? I am excited to go talk to the woman I'm discipling with, and get her take on the situation.
I told W and pastor that I have NO desire to be unforgiving, I do not wish to hold this "against" H, or use it in arguements (which I no longer do, I did at first, although the only arguements we ever have are about his P use and lying about it) but I must talk to others to heal. I believe they mean not talking to others in a gossipy way.
Oh, W also said to me "this really is every man's battle", which made me a little peevish since I really didn't like that book.
I may start emailing people about things like this, like the "repentant" author of EMB who is going on about women's "glistening bodies" in the book...what?!?!??! Even my H picked up on that one, thought it was bizarre. But I think I'm still in hyper-sensitive and a bit mad at men mode!
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Post by LookingUp on Dec 20, 2007 20:51:05 GMT -5
Okay, sounds somewhat reasonable - wish he gave scriptures for that. But did he give your husband a little formula for regaining trust? If he didn't then it feels very sexist to me - the "good ol' boys club" The big thing that annoys me about how that was handled is that it feels like he's getting off scott free - not having to change how he relates with you and you're just suppose to believe the underlying, hidden things have changed. I think only a miracle of God can cause you to have trust if he's not willing to have open communication with you. Sorry, I'm not very encouraging today; what's happening there is so parallel to what's going on in our house that it's hard for me to be objective. This whole conversation with them seems soooo unfair. It's unfair enough our husbands broke their vows - but then when the only change he has to make is stop sinning without having to do anything to bolster your trust... it just seems icky. Have you read the "Five Languages of Apology?" I found that book very validating - even though it was years after I'd forgiven him when I read it. Since my husband seldom opens up to me about personal stuff, I presume his language of apology is either to ignore it or say "But, I didn't mean it." and that should make everything okay. But when it comes to breaking trust and our vows - I need a bit more to feel he's truly apologized; I need him to give the words and then make amends to help make it right. www.fivelanguagesofapology.com/ - then go to 30 second assessment to see the five styles of apology. The author says that in marriage, we should learn to speak our partner's apology language if we want harmony to return. LookingUp
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Post by Mayberry on Dec 25, 2007 7:05:33 GMT -5
Wishing you a very happy Christmas, my friend and sister!
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