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Post by Mayberry on Aug 29, 2007 6:01:20 GMT -5
InSearchofPeace: I hope you found that smile you were looking for the other day...I am still following your journal, and I want you to know that I'm rooting for you. These are tough times for you...and my heart breaks that you are going through this....I will pray for you today and particularly pray that there are no creeps staring at your chest and calling you "honey." GRRRR. May I please kick someone in the shins now? Seriously, I am holding you in thought and prayer, and I hope you find some way to balance and center a bit or--as that may be too much (it often is for me these days!)--that you find some way of lifting the crushing weight of all you're dealing with. I'm glad you're going to try "my" prayer technique--I'd encourage you to do it for a week and see if it helps you. It's cheaper than meds (laughing!). Different things work for different people (no kidding!), but I have found this technique to work very well for lots of folks dealing with overwhelming stress that they don't know "how" to relieve or are dependent upon someone else changing to relieve. Hang in there! I'm rooting for you. J
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Post by isopeace on Aug 29, 2007 7:50:49 GMT -5
Thank you Mayberry. I will say it does feel a bit odd to be in the shower, talking out loud.... but I did feel a but more peaceful when finished. Reflection on days ?? (too lazy to look at a calender..counting down to Sept 20th) I've been MIA... mostly just because I've been hiding I guess. I feel like crawling under a rock, secretly hoping someone will come find me, but at the same time, hoping noone does. It's a very confusing emotion. H says he feels like I've given up, and stopped caring about everything. In some ways, he's right. I have no ambition to do anything. I don't want to do anything. I want it to be Sept 20th, and just be able to move on with my life. I want to close my eyes, and wake up with a different man for a husband...no, noone in mind....just don't want to deal with this anymore. I don't want to think about the things he's said/looked at/done, but they keep creeping back into my mind as not-so-gentle reminders...I don't want to ever feel pain like that again. I'm afraid I will. I don't even want him to say I love you. He did yesterday, and I couldn't answer...that was such a horrible feeling. And it angered him, which in turn angered me. I'm stuck in mud, spinning out of control, and running out of gas. There's noone around for miles that has a chain strog enough to pull me out. And I got someone in the passenger seat, pushing my foot on the gas pedal, and I'm not strong enough to stop it. Oh, and there's a freight train headed my way (don't ask why there's a mudpit on the tracks)..... Hopeless... I am trying to remember that God can help... the whole footprints poem comes to mind...I just wish He would. I feel abandoned. I feel like I'm being punished....and I feel like (expletive) saying it, becuase I don't honestly believe God punishes, or at least not in this way. I obviously just can't figure out how to give it over to Him.
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Post by LookingUp on Aug 29, 2007 9:41:59 GMT -5
Sounds like you're fighting a depression. I'm so sorry you're hurting right now.
I pray that you remember how to turn it over to God -- possibly you could turn over small increments if you're not yet able to hand him the whole realm of problems?
LookingUp
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Post by isopeace on Aug 30, 2007 7:50:03 GMT -5
I asked a bunch of very pointed questions yesterday...last time you looked at p? last time you turned something that isn't p (tv commercial, magazine ad, etc) into p in your mind, last time you wondered sexual things about a woman.." First he said (in order), "a really long time" (nice evasive answer), "what do you mean?" (playing dumb), and "I don't have sexual thoughts about other women". When I pushed the issue and got specific (when was the last time you wondered what underwear that woman is wearing?" He said, oh, that...it's not sexual..I guess the other day.... First of all, WTF kind of BS answer is that? How can you call that non-sexual??? I asked him if he squashed the thoughts or let them continue... he said, it was just a thought, then it was gone... totally evaded the question no matter how I asked it. Whatever. I really shouldn't ask these things... it just pisses me off, and he won't ever be 100% transparent & honest anyway, so it's pointless. Then he said that his addiction is a chemical inbalance in his brain. I asked him why SA or therapists don't hand out meds to SA/PA's then... he said "dunno". (Forgive me if I'm wrong..I don't believe this to be a chemical inbalance problem.) He keeps saying its just a temptation...and noone is good at resisting tempation. BS Then he said it's not personal... I'm so sick of hearing that. No, you're not doing it becuase of me, but you are doing in spite of me, which makes it personal. He tried to rationalize using this... "If you are a smoker, and someone you love wants you to quit, if you don't quit, you are not still smoking in a personal intentional attempt to hurt them. You are only hurting yourself." So I replied...right, BUT if you still smoke around them after they ask you not to, you are intentionally hurting them, which makes it personal. He shut up...lol (maybe this is an analogy, an example of what ZT was talking about?) Then he said that he doesn't believe in God, therefore God can't help him. He said that a bunch of people in a room (refering to SA) can't give him a solution to this that will "work for" him. Then he said he doesn't have the answers for how to stop. So I said..."If God can't help you, other people can't give you answers, and you don't have answers, then what you are saying is that the answer isn't there, or you give up trying to find it." "I don't know what I'm saying..." I basically gave up...I said, ya know what? This is pointless. You are not ready to do what it's going to take. You are not at the point where you hate whatever it is your addicted to. You are not at the point where you want it 100% out of your life, no matter what it takes. You are still evading, lying, blameshifting. You are still trying to control my reactions (by saying, I'd tell you, but you'll just tell me I'm lying, so I can't tell you unless you believe me). You are still making excuses, trying to justify. I told you you had until Sept 20th. On that day, I WILL NOT except, " oh, you were serious? ok, I'll go to SA tommorrow." That will be the last day I spend with you unless you are in a program...actually WORKING a program, and you, my dear, are running out of time. You are wasting that time making excuses, snooping on me, trying to make yourself look/feel better, argueing with me, and just generally ignoring the problem. I told you that I think God is the only one that's ever going to be able to help you, the only one that can crawl inside your mind and help you control it. If you don't want to or can't give him that chance, I see no future for us. I don't want to hear I love you, I want to SEE it...I want to SEE you being 100% honest, no bull white lies, omission lies, "I forgots". I want to know EVERYTHING or nothing...you decide. I want to SEE you show me respect, the respect I deserve. I may not be perfect, but I deserve more then this, more then you've ever given me. Actions speak louder then words. I've gotten words from you for 6 years..I need actions now. I'm basically pouring my heart out to this man, and he just sat there, staring at the floor, not saying a word. When I got home from work, he asked me so what do you want to know? I said, the real question is this..what are you willing to tell me that doesn't include any omissions, "forgetting, white lies, or blameshifting? What are you willing to tell me that is 100% transparent & honest. Becuase I really don't want to hear anything if it's not 100% truth. He said, real quiet.."ok"...and didn't say another word. On another note, I don't feel as depressed today. I feel a quiet resolve, close to acceptance I think. I fully expect to swing back & forth between the two (and probably other emotions) for awhile. It seems to be how I "deal" with things. I retreat (depression) untill I feel stronger, then I feel confident, then I feel knocked out, worn out, whatever, so I repeat...It's not healthy, I know.. I'm still working on the whole handing it over to God thing.. who knew letting go of things that you so desperatly want gone would be so hard? I'm thankful to the women here who keep following my journal. It's nice knowing that someone out there is interested in my thoughts, and can understand me. It's comforting knowing my name may be mentioned in thier prayers, and it's wonderful when I get tidbits of advice & support from them. So thank you.
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Post by LookingUp on Aug 30, 2007 9:38:12 GMT -5
I think you handled the whole conversation like a PRO. Terrific update. Sounds like your back bone is standing firm.... and your husband is not quite sure what to do about that.
I said a prayer for you.
LookingUp
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Post by Mayberry on Sept 15, 2007 6:46:44 GMT -5
Just saying hello (saw you were logged on). How is it going for you? J
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Post by isopeace on Sept 15, 2007 14:25:09 GMT -5
Hey Jinn ( it is Jinn, right? I'm sorry if it isn't...I'm horrible with names..)
Thanks for checking in on me..
Truthfully, it's going like crap..he's made no move to work towards recovery, we've had several discussions (all initiated by me of course) and each has left me feeling less hope for this working. So much has been said, and yet again, nothing has been done. I don't have the energy to go into details, but I really should. I feel like my thoughts are spinning & it might help to "write" them down. I've been neglecting this journal, just because I really don't know what to say. I've been avoiding this site actually, until today (or maybe yesterday).. maybe I'm in my own way playing the avoidance game.
He's angry that I'm still holding him to the 30 day deadline (he has 5 days left). He admits to being wishywashy about whether he even wants to try to make the changes he needs to make. He says that even if he went 3 years "sober", that when he does slip, my reaction won't be supportive..it will be as if he never tried at all... I don't even know how to respond to that.
He says he can't tell me everything I want to know becuase that would "be the last straw"..that he feels I wouldn't want him anymore after that. (I told him I wanted to know when it started, how it progressed, and every single thing he's done since we've been together.) I told him I had to know these things, that it would show he was taking the first step of being an open book, which in turn would allow my trust of him to grow eventually. I told him by not telling me, he's taking away my choices on how to deal with whatever the "info" is. He says it shouldn't be important, it has nothing to do with me, it's not personal, so why do I need to know? That I'm taking away HIS choice of whether he tells me things or not..if that was true, and I was in control of his choices...we wouldn't even be in this situation, now would we? <sigh>
I have realized I can't go into public with him without having an anxiety attack or something. Every woman that walks by, I"m wondering what he's thinking about, and my heart begins to pound, and I can't breathe or think. So, I'm just avoiding it all together. I wish I had never seen him write that he thinks those thoughts about women he sees at work... I wish I could go back to the days when I thought it was just pictures or the occasional chat..
He has 5 days. I have no reason to believe he's going to do anything in those five days. Now I feel like I have to prepare myself for anything, something I haven't had the strength to do.
I just feel empty. I'm angry that he isn't willing to go beyond his comfort zone to try to better himself, us. I'm angry that I've had to live outside my comfort zone for him. I feel alone, even when he's next to me..like it's just a shell of someone I used to know, or thought I did anyway. I'm hurt that 30 days is "too short" of a time frame for him to make a choice... exactly how long does one need anyway? I'm sad becuase I just want to give up...when he says "it would be so much easier just to give up"..inside, I'm screaming, then please do! I'm upset that I have to force him to converse with me about any of this. He's been avoiding anything related to the issue, and it's wearing me out. Makes me feel neglected, avoided & uncared for.
Ok, so I said more then I was going to... I have to go get ready for work now. Tommorow, he will have 4 days.. I wish I knew what was going to happen.
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Post by Mayberry on Sept 15, 2007 19:32:59 GMT -5
I'm so very sorry. What an awful spot to be in. I ache in sympathy for you. Thank you for sharing your feelings here. Is there anything I can do to help? Anything I could share from my own experience that might help? Please feel free to PM me if you need to "talk" more. I will hold you in my thoughts in the next few days. Hang in there. J
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Post by isopeace on Sept 17, 2007 8:20:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure that anything anyone can tell me will make this better, but I sincerely appreciate the offer..I wish that there WAS something someone could say..like, here's a magic pill..it takes "it" all away.. Countdown...3 more days. I'm so angry at him right now. Saturday, he spent about 2 minutes searching online for a sex addicion counselor..didn't even click on any of the links provided by the search. He spent about another hour reading through some posts on the PA recovery board he joined (the first visit to it in weeks, so I guess I'm supposed to be happy...<roll eyes>) He left the computer history as is, probably in an attempt to show me what he's doing, as if it makes a difference.. He posted about the uncontrollable thoughts and how should he try to stop them. Someone suggested thinking about purple cows. Maybe that works, I dunno. And then he replied to a post from a woman who's asking for help on approaching her SO, telling him she wants to seperate, etc. She was asking for advice on how to break it to him, how to set boundaries, etc. First of all, I think he had NO business responding to her post, but that's neither here nor there I suppose...what angered me was his reply. It went a little like this.. My wife gave me 30 days to make a decision whether I'm gonna stay and fix whats wrong or leave. Personally I didn't like it one bit. (well, duh! noone said you were gong to like it!)Makes me feel like shes doesn't care if I stay or leave...like there's no remorse. (umm, wait, am I supposed to read this as "my wife has no remorse"? Remorse for what?)My suggestion is instead of telling him to leave...sit down and explain to him how you feel, make him LISTEN to you without him interupting and figure out, together, what the best solution is (OMG....how many times have I sat him down and like a broken f'in record poured out my heart & feelings to this man, tried to come up with solutions, etc...IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!!!!!!!!) because if you say "get out" and he does...his situation will only get worse not better (not her problem, not mine..IMO he's trying to make her feel sorry for her PA SO & guilty) and possibly yours might too (scare tactic that I could see him using on me...oh, you can't live without me..blah blah blah). Hopefully that makes a little sense.Now, once again, I haven't told him that I "know" what he wrote..he left it in plain view via the history, but I haven't mentioned it. I'm just furious over the reply he gave to this poor woman. I hope she ignores everything he said. I've really had to excersize self-control to not start my own account there just to reply myself...what good would it do? none..so I won't, but god knows I sooo want to. I feel like I want to go to sleep, and wake up in 4 days, just avoiding Thursday all together. I already told him I won't be kicking him out on that day if he hasn't made a choice by then. (in hindsight, this was a bad move..took the pressure off I bet.) I felt such a sudden move would be more emotionally disturbing to everyone then it's worth. I did however tell him that one of us (him) would begin sleeping in another room (I let him back in the bedroom a few weeks ago). I said that I would begin the seperation process from there. I have to figure out what I meant by that..fast. I feel like this is just a divorce process being procrastinated. I've practically told him step by step what to do, and yet he acts like he's clueless..for example.. "I don't have money to pay for a counselor" "Call a church, maybe they have resources. Go to SA, it's free" I can almost understand him though...why he's so hesitant perhaps. He says he's afriad, that he'll try so hard & it be useless because he'll slip & he'll be back at square one. He says it would be easier to just give up. I can totally understand that feeling. I'm at the point now where I think I'd rather give up too. I don't know if I can handle this for the rest of my life. I don't know if I"ll ever be able to get over these panic/anxiety attacks or whatever they are, caused just by being in his presence when I see someone beautiful w/ not enough/ too tight clothes. I'm at the point where I don't want to go anywhere with him. I don't even want to shop at the store he works at, even if he's not there, I feel like I'm in "his space"... man, that makes me sound nuts..lol If I know he's there working, I'm afraid I'll walk around a corner, and catch him doing something he shouldn't be doing. I mean, it's just a grocry store, so it's not like he can "do" anything..but you know what I mean..he works with almost all women.. I can't handle the thought of that kind of suprise, let alone it actually happening. (I've told him these things..he thinks I'm way over reacting..sigh) I don't know if I'll ever be able to trust him the way a wife should be able to trust her husband. I don't know if I'll ever feel completely loved by him, or if I"ll ever be able to completely love him again. I don't know if I'm willing to wait-n-see if he's serious about recovery, because at this point, it feels so fake. It would be so much easier just to say, go ahead, do whatever you want, i'm outta here..but I feel like I owe him to give him one more shot...but when do you decide "one more" is one too many? How many "one more"s are there going to be? I don't think he's ready. I think in his heart he knows he has to do this, but in his mind, he doesn't want to, doesn't think he can. I think he's semi-aware of how hard it will be, and doesn't want to work that hard..he's not a stick-to-it & conquer it kinda guy..he's more of a sit back, let someone else do it, and jump in at the end.. (Copied from a post above) I asked him Friday night if the answers to these questions had changed.. first, he didn't even remember me asking them, so I had to re-ask, then tell him what his answers were.. then he said, no, the answers really hadn't changed much. He said that he can't tell me honestly that the thoughts he has will ever stop. He said he wished he could tell me that, but he can't. At least that's honesty..we both know he's right. I was so sad & happy to hear it at the same time..sad becuase I know it's true, and happy becuase he admited it. He said they were pretty much daily. He said that he knows now (from reading other SO's posts on "his" board) that I"m not the only one who is so hurt by things like this. He said he can "kinda" relate to the other PA/SA's on "some things" but not on others. I'm going to stop thinking about this, at least for now... it's too much to wrap my brain around this early..giving me a headache.
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Post by isopeace on Sept 17, 2007 8:53:23 GMT -5
you know what? I'm not done..lol
I had a minor breakthrough the other night...
[trigger]When h & I first began having sex, he could barely obtain an erection, let alone sustain one. This lasted for months. I used to cry myself to asleep after yet another failed attempt at lovemaking, blaming myself. My low self-esteem & poor self image flared & I blamed myself. He always told me it wasn't me, that he didn't know why it was happening, that maybe he was over-excited, too tired, etc etc.. I couldn't hear it. I just "knew" it was somehow my fault. He would suggest different things to try to correct the "issue" but those things never worked. Looking back on it now, I figured it out. Shortly after the erection problems "went away", I discovered the p for the first time. I can't believe it took me untill 2 days ago (6 years!) to put 2 & 2 together. I now believe he had been womanless for so long that he had conditioned himself to getting his jollies from p. When a real woman was within his reach, he didn't know how to deal with it, couldn't deal with it "right". He couldn't perform until he brought p back into his life.[/trigger]
I don't know if my theory is right, but it sounds reasonable enough to me. I can finally let go of my shame over that period of my life, and believe 100% that is WAS NOT about me.
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Post by isopeace on Sept 17, 2007 13:45:18 GMT -5
I'm sitting here in tears..
It just occured to me (while reading some else's journal) that reality is my h will probably always have these thoughts, urges & fetishes. I know it sounds like such a duh thing to say, and I'm pretty sure I even said it in my last post or two..so, why am I crying over it now?
Because I can't deal with that, I really can't. And, I'll never know for sure. I'll never know what he's thinking, unless he tells me, and just the other day he said "the less I tell you, the safer I am".. now, he was refering to telling me his past, but that kind of attitude will carry over into other situations. In the same breath, he says, the next time I think about chatting or p'ing, I'll tell you. The next time I have unpure thoughts I'll tell you... bull(expletive) you will. And, unlike a drug addiction, I can't see the results of the using if all he's "using" are thoughts. I"m left to guess, imagine & assume..how can I grow trust that way? I can't.
Am I over reacting? Does every "normal" man have these thoughts? I don't think so, and I don't really care if anyone else does.
So, I'm crying because I feel like I have to accept that unless my h gets a brain transplant, he will never "get it". He's going to go through the motions, he might attempt recovery because it's better then being alone, he might give me glimpses into his slips. But he's never going to give me the key to his mind. He's probably never going to believe that every omission is a lie. He's probably never going to see the importance of transparency. And he's never going to able to prove to me that he isn't having thoughts, even if he isn't... there's no PROOF. I can't deal with this... I don't even know how to feel right now.
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Post by Mayberry on Sept 17, 2007 14:31:45 GMT -5
InSearchofPeace: I don't know if any of this will be helpful to you or not. I'm putting it in the trigger guards in case you've got enough on your brain without my 2 cents. Jinn
[trigger]
My money is on your theory being 100% right and I am glad you came to this insight. I was mightily puzzled over some of the rather strange dynamics in my H/my sexuality until I discovered the porn addiction (discovering the porn itself just made me feel even worse...more lacking...but when I started reading about the effects it can have on "performance" it was like a big huge lightbulb went off over my head and I literally went "AHA!" and was able to let my self-blaming go, entirely. That, in and of itself, was a huge healing for me. I hope that your realization will be a huge healing to you.
You wrote about "thinking about purple cows." When my husband was going through active withdrawal symptoms after stopping porn (these lasted for about 6-8 weeks as I recall), he went through a lot of spontaneous erections, had horrible sleep, overwhelming erotic dreams, etc. etc. (All of which, at the time, pretty much just pissed me off, but that's another story. We were not having sex, by choice, to let him go through the withdrawal and readjust the chemical balance in him and I was MIGHTY sick of hearing about this sudden surge of sexual energy. Anyway....) When these images and feelings hit, he would literally begin to do math problems in his head, picture shop tools, shotguns, explore the rigging of ships...whatever image took the triggering image OUT of his head. Many a morning, I found him reading woodworking manuals, etc. It did work for him. I don't find the purple cow stuff too far afield. Whatever it takes to get to sobriety, IMO.
Of course, your husband will have to choose sobriety. In our story here, it was the SOBRIETY that led to my H's "bottom"...he felt so useless and despairing and unforgiven and unforgivable that he really wanted to die, I believe. That was about 8 weeks into sobriety. It was at THAT point that it suddenly became "possible" for him to begin recovery: to read sincerely, to begin to actually divulge and talk with me, to seek out a PA counselor and begin therapy. We're not that far away from that point, so much of this is very fresh in my memory.
I wonder if my husband will always have "urges" or be triggered. Having been through 5 (6?) "D-days" before we were both calling the porn problem for what it was: an addiction, I remember how despairing I felt. I've come to the conclusion (for now) that as long as he is 1) sexually sober and 2) WORKING recovery and as long as I am 3) working actively for my own healing that *I* will probably be able to survive this god-awful trauma.
I share my experience in the hope that it may give you some hope. Of course, our situations are different. I just felt moved to share some of what I've been through...I remember (very very clearly) how desolate and hopeless I felt not very long ago. I hope for a brighter place for you, and I really hope your husband gets his head on straight. You deserve that. [/trigger]
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Post by isopeace on Sept 18, 2007 22:28:18 GMT -5
Mayberry..thank you. Please don't ever be afraid to share from your experiences. In the short time I've been here, I've come to look forward to reading your posts..you seem so gentle & wise. And yes, my "light bulb moment" actually did heal me a bit, at least from those wounds. It was an incredibly freeing feeling. Thanks again for visiting. ______________________________________________ I'm exahsted from a very long day of talking, fighting, reasoning, trying to unbury myself from the craziness....so here I am, to ramble a bit before bed...(excuse the typos please, I can't spell on a good day ) Today was a complete waste. It started yesterday, with a phone number on my caller ID that belonged to a girl, one that didn't know my son, so I asked h who it was. He flipped out on m...why would I automatically assume it was for him? Did I know how much that angered him? Why do I always have to question everything? Then this am, I find out he knows about this board, knows that I've been hiding it by erasing my history here (guess I didn't hide it well enough). Then came the.."Why is it ok for you to hide things & erase history, but I can't do it?" I tried to no avail to explain to him that I wasn't hiding to protect any wrong doing, I was merely trying to protect myself from his reactions to the things I might say here..just giving myself a safe place to vent, cry, muse & do/say/type whatever I want to without fear of reprecussions. I tried to tell him this was eons away from his reasons for hiding/erasing things in the past.. he didn't agree. Then, I told him how angry I was over his posting a reply to that poor woman who wanted advice on how to leave her PA h. I told him that he was answering her from an addicts POV, and that he had no idea how his words would feel to her if she was anything like me. I realized I was really angry because his real "message" behind his post to her was how angry he was at me for the 30 day deadline. He was basically answering her as if she were me. He said his only intent was to tell her that there should be some kind of comprimise instead of her just kicking the man out. My only answer to that is wtf kind of comprimise is there in a situation like this? You have no idea her story (which I later read...he said he had already read it all..bs. If he did, he would know how many years she had been trying to "talk" to her h, and how totally unwilling he was to even recognize the problem.. I told him how weird it was, I could have written most of her posts from my own heart & thoughts..) He said he'd write whatever he wanted, and stop snooping on him. I said, then don't leave it in the history for me to see. Then it just escalated from there.. basically 6 hours of back & forth.. him saying things like I should apologize for snooping. I said, well, you should apologize for the chats you had a month ago that you never apologized for. He said, I shouldn't have to.. I asked him if he meant that or if he was just saying that becuase he was mad. He said, some days I think I should, some days I don't. Then later on, he said that the things he said (me not being his wife, just an ex g/f, him being willing to do anything to kill me, etc) were all just a story he created, so they weren't wrong to say.... <sigh> He said my non-supportive attitude was the reason he was hesitant to go into SA. I called BS..said that he was hesitant because he didn't know for sure he wanted to quit having the thoughts/urges he did. He said (again) that he would decide what recovery program, if any, and it would be on his timing, not mine. I said, oh, I guess I'm supposed to sit back, cry a little on every D-day from now until whenever it is you decide (never), and then hold your hand and say it's ok, I'll wait another 6 years for you to change... nuh-uh, don't think so. I gave you the ultimatum becuase we've been down this road so many times I could drive it in the dark with my eyes shut. I told him (again) how angry & hurt I was that he has never once brought up a conversation about any of this in the last few weeks...how that made me feel totally unloved, avoided, etc. He said he didn't bing it up becuase he didn't want to talk to me about it, he had nothing to say, didn't feel comfortable talking with me about it. I told him I felt like I HAD to talk about it, becuase it being unspoken was driving me crazy. He didn't much care I don't think... I counted a dozen times at least over the course of the day where he told me to go away, stop talking to him, leave him alone, shut up already, etc... Then (after an hour or so break from the craziness) he told me that he understood what I was saying, and alot of it made sense to him. that he wanted to put money on his cell so he could call SA and have them be able to call him back "discreetly". Perhaps I overreacted a bit to this one, because I took it as "this way, I can say I called them & you won't know if I did or not." So, I asked him, why do want to use your cell instead of the house phone? I'm sure they would be very discreet if they ever left a message.... holy (expletive), he flipped out. I don't think I've ever seen this man so angry. How dare I question him? He was NOT going to live the rest of his life being constantly questioned. I have NO RIGHT to ask him why he wants to do it. If he says he wants it that way, it's none of my concern why. He was going to do this HIS way, NOT mine. I was NOT going to tell HIM what to do or how to do it. I tried to back peddle, saying, ok, fine, this is why I asked..(fill in what I just typed about my gut feeling)..more screaming.. I said, ok, use your cell if you want, but are you willing to show me the phone records to prove that you called them & actually talked to them? Wow, you woulda thought I lit a firecracker under his ass. If I didn't believe him, just look at the phone..he already had dialed the number once & hung up. Call them and "check up on him" if I wanted to..what did I wanna do, listen to his conversation with them too? I said, not a bad idea, but no..and I'm not going to call them. The fact that you dialed the number doesn't mean a damn thing. It doesn't prove to me that you are actually going to follow through....Why did he have to prove anything to me? This was HIS recovery, not MINE! <sigh again> Guess I won't be seeing those phone records.. Then he went to bed (working overnite tonight). I looked (snooped..lol), and he wrote a very short, I'm sorry for my reply, please disregard this addicts opinion" type of post to that woman, which of course someone else said, "wow, i was upset over your first post, but this apology just shows how far you've come in such a short time"...blah, gag me. <once again exsercizing self control to not interject and say, um no..his wife enlightened him to what a jerk he was in the first one..> When he got up, I got a very quiet subdued, sorry for yelling at you... a 5 second sentance that I'm sure in his mind erases all the bull(expletive) verbal abuse, blameshifting & excuse making he spewed all day. Then he left for work, and now here I sit... I'm still going to journal. I don't think he knows my name here, at least he says he doesn't. I guess I really don't care..too much. I told him most of what I've written he already knows, and I think thats mostly true. I don't believe I did anything wrong by hiding it either. Perhaps if he does know/figure out my name, he'll get a bit of insight into my "f'ed up brain" as he calls it. So what did this tragedy of a day teach me? I'm forcing him into a recovery he's not ready for. 99% of what he said to me today screamed that out to me. I could feel it happening, but it was like an unstoppable frieght train. I keep telling him don't do it for me, do it for you, or it won't work. But, if I'm to be honest, I want him to do it for me too, for us. He said my ultimatum tells him I don't care, don't love him. I said, if I didn't care, didn't love you, I'da booted you out without giving you a choice. Instead of being angry at me for this, be thankful & grateful I'm willing to give you one last chance before I give up. Ugh, I'm getting off topic... I am feeling ashamed that I was very hard on him today, I actually apologized for it.. (and want to slap myself for that too). I think he's in turmoil. I think he's a weak man that knows what the right thing to do is, but can't quite make his brain agree with his heart. I think he's afraid, and I told him I'm just as afraid...afraid of wasting time waiting for him to recover & having it blow up in my face. But, where I'm going wrong is this..a small (or possibly large) part of me says that if I drill my thoughts, my feelings, my beliefs into this man, and can get him (via love or torture lol) to even half heartedly agree with me, that's just as good as him coming up with all of it on his own. Ureka, I got through to him!! WRONG. I'm "training" him to say all the right things. He's learned that I'm a bulldog..I don't let go untill I get what I want, so eventually he just gives it, even if it's fake. He's not a fighter, I am.... so what have I created? A man who tells me what I want to hear, even when I'm begging him not too. And I perpetuated that today. What I'm saying might be truth. What I'm feeling might be dead on accurate. What I believe may be right. But those are MY feelings, MY thoughts, MY beliefs. No matter how many times (I've lost count over the years) I say the same things, tears included, repeating them to him untill he's drooling & moaning & with his last dying breath saying, you're right, I believe that too...I'm wasting my breath. He's not agreeing & concurring because he really believes I'm right. I leave the conversation (if you can call it that) feeling like I won, like I finally got to him. (Don't worry..those hopes will be crushed very shortly, rest assured.) But the feeling of victory is a small one, fake, short lived & shallow. At some point, he shows his true colors, and then, omg, here comes the bulldog ready for another go 'round.. So, the day was a failure, pretty much...I did learn (well, just reaffirmed really) that he's not ready for recovery, but that he's going to play along, shall we say. And I learned that this bulldog is tired...tired of wasting her breath, time & energy. Tired of the oh-so-good feeling of "he got it!" being dashed to bits & drowned when he snaps out of whatever trance I put him in. Tired of setting myself up for that, but seemingly unable to stop myself before it goes that far. Maybe he's right when he says I'm just a controlling b!tch. Tommorrow is day 29 of 30.....and I really wish I could see the future.
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Post by Mayberry on Sept 19, 2007 8:45:13 GMT -5
InSearchofPeace:
I heard a lot of things in your post, but I did not hear a woman who is a controlling b!tch.
What an incredibly draining conversation that felt like as I read it. I think back to hours on hours of trying to "enlighten" my husband. Wish I could say I did something, said something that got "through" to him; Lord knows, I tried.
I actually suspect it was disengaging that may have worked for us. I stayed with him, but, when I finally got it through my pea-brain that this was HIS problem, I stepped away and stopped trying to guide and fix him. I started to live my own life and work on my own healing. I was braced for the worst: sulkiness, anger (my husband is not a yeller, thank God, but that doesn't mean the anger wasn't there, and the sense of being "controlled" by me...that came out in later conversations), depression. I would not have been surprised to have him cross into that most emotionally manipulative of lands: suicide. I stopped trying. Not because I didn't love him, but because there was (for us) literally NOTHING I could do or say to "make him" want recovery for himself.
Mine is NOT the voice of reason or wisdom here...It is (in my worldview) GRACE and nothing else that "saved the day." I just had to stop trying to save the day (what I call my "Mighty Mouse syndrome."). It was going to emotionally ruin me to keep trying.
I am so very sorry for you and for your husband right now, and it's not pity, but deep compassion. I wrap you in thought and prayer and my main hope is that *you* will be okay through and/or after all of this. Hang in there; I'm rooting for you. Jinn
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Post by isopeace on Sept 19, 2007 22:18:32 GMT -5
it's crap...all of it. He's a liar, always will be, always has been. He called SA today..is supposed to go to meeting for the first time on Tuesday..asked me if that was good enough as a first step since he's actually missing the deadline (tommorrow)....and then I find out that while I'm at work tonite, he's zooming right in on some half naked girl game character he happened to see in his game.. bleh. I'm done. I really don't give a (expletive) if he's going to go to SA or not. I said it last night, and I"ll say it again, he's not ready. This is complete and utter bull(expletive). I'm so sick of hearing that he's going to try to change. I'm so sick of him playing this stupid headgame. Why doesn't he just come right out & say, ya know what? I don't care...I prefer to have my little voyeristic fun here & again..if you don't like it, too bad! Why can't he just be HONEST!!!!!!! ?? That's all I f'in want...a little honesty once in awhile. I hope I can calm down a bit while I sleep or all hell's going to break lose tomorrow. I don't care if it was just some 1 minute look at a stupid gathering of pixels that might even be played by a man. I care that those pixels had very little clothes on, and I care that my husband was zoomed in as far as he could be. How freakin' pathetic!! Ya know what, if you want it that bad, at least go to a site where you can look at real women instead of a cartoon character...then my feelings about this wouldn't feel so out of whack. At least then I'd feel like I have "reason" to be this pissed off. At least then I wouldn't be telling myself to "stop overreacting". And stop telling me you want to change. You don't want to. If you wanted to, I wouldn't have to push you so hard. If you wanted to, you would never have let it get this far. If you wanted to, you'd be sorry for all the f'in heartache you've put me through. You'd do WHATEVER you had to to make yourself BETTER. You'd stop making f'in excuses and JUST DO IT! I hope you are happy with whatever you do with your life...I am so close to not caring anymore..you have no idea. You think this little phone call & meeting once a week is going to appease me, going to shut me up, don't you? Wrong. You really believe this broken woman is going to wait another 6 years for you to wake the f up... no way. I have better things to do with my life then feel cheated on by a f'in cartoon. I have better things to worry about then what my husband is thinking about the skank that just walked by. I have better things to do. I WANT TO BE F'IN HAPPY DAMMIT! I want this BS to be OVER! I do NOT want to deal with it ANYMORE! Why can't you see that? I'm sorry I led you to believe I was weak, that I would put up with this forever. I'm sorry that I've given you enough space to run me over again. I'm sorry that I've let my guard down, even if it was only for 2 hours. I'm sorry that I believed you. I'm sorry that you can't control yourself. I'm sorry that I didn't trust my gut 6 years ago when I wanted to run. I'm sorry that I'm going to have to put my children through hell to fix this. I'm sorry that I let it go this long. I'm sorry that I failed..that I couldn't help you see wtf you are doing to you, to us, to them. I'm sorry that you don't love yourself. I'm sorry that you don't love me. I'm sorry that I'll never know what it's like to grow old with you the way we planned. I'm sorry that I can't live like this for that long. I'm sorry that I can't acceptwhat you do as normal. I'm sorry that society says I should. I'm sorry that you didn't take this seriously. I'm sorry if I am over reacting. I'm sorry if you don't understand exactly how a fresh wound feels when you pour vinegar in it. Most of all, I'm sorry I even bothered to waste my breath & my time & my energy the last 29 days. I should have given you 48 hours, choose us, choose yourself getting better, choose me, or get out.
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