Devastated -
I am so glad to hear from you directly
And I am glad that what I said on your husband's post spoke to you. I almost feel like I have been harsh with Witness lately - but I feel so deeply for
you. My husband and I have been married for 18 years. And for at least 15 of those years he led his secret life alongside the one that we shared. Your name says it all - it is absolutely devastating.
I think part of the problem is that try as they might, our husbands can not possibly understand the pain that this causes us. And I think that part of the reason for that is that they can never, ever imagine us doing what they did, or even doing any version of it. I tried one time writing an imaginary story on Witnesses post in an attempt to make him feel the slightest bit jealous, to see things your way just a bit. I had to keep it very mild out of respect to you. But I don't think he really got it. The problem is that they can't imagine us going elsewhere for
anything - emotional comfort, intimate conversation, sex. And what they don't understand is that before all of this was dumped on us
we couldn't imagine
them doing it either. We were just as shocked to find out what they were doing as they would have been if they'd found out we were doing it.
I tried analogies, I tried threatening to go out and find another man. I even resorted to meanness - telling my husband one night that I was planning to mb while thinking of a mutual friend (who happens to be quite handsome and who I have always gotten along with very well). I told my husband to leave the bedroom and that I would call him after it was over and let him know if I understood him any better afterwards. Mean, mean stuff - of course I had no intention of doing any such thing. I was just trying desperately to make him understand the jealousy. The irony is that my husband would
not leave the room and begged me not to do it. Then I got really angry because he had told me over and over how what he had done meant nothing - so why would he care if
I did it - if it meant nothing then what was the big deal? He said that I wasn't like him and he was afraid that it would somehow mean something to me - and also that he didn't think I would like it and that it would hurt me emotionally. And while I do believe that he felt those things, I also saw a bit of jealousy in his eyes. I think he got the tiniest glimpse into my hurt that night.
I completely understand how you feel about the worst of it coming and going. You can be going along thinking, OK, I can handle this and BAM! it all falls apart again. I think I reached rock bottom last week when I told my husband that I was on the verge of hating him. Well, thats not true,
real rock bottom would be if he acted out again and chose to end our relationship. But that was as far down as I had gotten. I was so, so, angry. I have gone through so many stages with this - I obsessed for days over the fact that he was choosing women who are much thinner than I am, even though he has always known how self-conscious I am about my body. I got mad because I realized that he had looked at Maxim magazine in a bookstore as recently as a few months ago (whats with that? You aren't going to mb in the bookstore, now are you? And there is no sex in that magazine - just bikini women!) I am getting angry again just thinking about it. How
dare he!!!!!
I'm sorry to digress, but the emotions are so volatile. I think that maybe Witness is expecting too much of you too soon. My husband was doing the same thing a couple of weeks ago. We had some good days in a row and I think he had hoped that the worst was over. But it wasn't. And I basically told him - Look, I get to feel what I feel. You did this, I will not feel bad about how I am dealing with this. And if you love me like you say you do you will be there to just hear me out every single time - every minute, whether I am ready to punch you or asking you to put your arms around me. He agreed, and I have to say it is the way that he is there for me that gets me through the bad days.
There was a time early on in this when a strange thing happened to my husband. We are not very religious, although we once were. My husband is starting to feel that what he was doing was making it easy for him to stay far from God. After the disclosure he was desperate, and began praying on a regular basis - almost obsessively I think. Well, one night early in the process I was in a serious rage - I was being really mean. I know that this was hard for my husband because I have never been anything but sweet to him. I thought, Oh well - mean is what he deserves and I went
off. He actually got irritated with me and left the room. Sort of stomped out. I remember thinking - Oh, isn't this great, if this is how he is going to act then we will definitely not make it. A few minutes later he came back in and apologized. He said he would listen to whatever I had to say. I was happy to pick up the rant where I'd left off and he did listen that whole night. I asked him later why he'd come back and he told me that he'd gone into the other room and prayed in desperation - what am I supposed to do when she gets like this - what can I do to help her? He had an impression of two words come into hs mind - Take It. And that is what he has done ever since.
So what helps me?
The primary thing that helps me is that my husband has stopped p/mb and is in active recovery. He reads - at first it was spiritual stuff but now he is reading a Carnes book and we have been reading The Seven Steps to Intimacy together at night. He goes to therapy (I am actually going with him for the first time today - I am pretty nervous). He works on Recovery Nation. He talks to me about all of this stuff. He is changing. I can see that change in him.
I am also coming to realize that this is a serious problem - and not just my husband "wanting" other women. Now I know that every man is different, so I guess whether or not this would help would depend on his story. When we were teenagers my husband told me that he had always felt like he was not right, sexually. I didn't know what that meant - and I really didn't think about it all that much. But lately our talks have gone into his childhood and I have heard some things that he told me long ago and some other things that he had been too ashamed to ever reveal before. My husband was doing very strange sexual things at a very young age (like 8 or 9). He remembers looking at porn in his dad's bathroom as far back as age 5. Something definitely went wrong . I don't know if it was the early porn exposure or if something more happened to him when he was very young. But we have an appropriately innocent 8 year old son right now and I know that there is no way that he would ever come up with the stuff that my husband did. There is some part of me that wishes I could reach back in time and mother that poor little boy (his own mother wasn't doing it properly). So I know that my husband's problem is deeply rooted. That helps me because I realize that it is a problem that can be dealt with. It helps me that he desperately wants to deal with it. It also helps me that he hated what he was doing for so long - he tried to stop over and over. He actually feels freed by the truth.
Thats not to say that I hold him blameless. People grow up and choose what they will do. I do not hold him blameless. There are certain things that I look at and say, yes, that was a compulsion, that was using p/mb as a soothing mechanism. But there are other things that, well, frankly , p*ss me off. Times when I thinkhe just wanted to look at naked women. He says it ties all together, but I am not buying that yet. So it helps me to know all of the details - to decide what to think about them, to make my own judgements and express them to him. And to let myself
feel. Whether its anger, disgust, whatever, I let myself feel it.
Another thing that has helped me - and I know that this is very unusual - is physical intimacy. I know that some women can't bear the thought of it and I completely understand. But my husband was the king of compartmentalization. He somehow managed to keep the p completely out of our sex life. I knew that he had never
done anything strange - my concern was that he may have
thought things. I have read lots on this - and while some men definitely pornify their wives - many men manage to keep it very, very seperate. So now if we have a good day and we are together it is very comforting to me. He looks into my eyes and I see what is in there, in his heart. And we talk about it very frankly. I have said to him - I
know that mb couldn't have been giving you what I am giving you - and he sees how empty and lonely it actually was. He says he doesn't want that anymore, and I do think that I believe him. It doesn't have to be sex - I have walked up to him and put my arms around him and looked in his eyes and said - how do you feel about me? Then I assess if what he says seems true. A hug can go a long way. I do everything on
my terms.
I am in charge now. My husband accepts that. We snuggle on the couch, hold hands in the car. It seems like if he is touching me I need almost constant reassurance - I need him to talk to me about
me and about how he feels. I need him to look into my eyes. And when I do this it does give me comfort - it helps me to see that, yes, parts of what we had were very real - to him, as well as to me.
This board has been a HUGE help to me. I probably read here way more than I should. But just realizing that there are so many other women who are going through this has helped me tremendously. And they have words of wisdom to offer. Also, I write to the new ones sometimes - it feels like a sort of mission to me to try to help them and welcome them because I know the hurt that they are feeling. That helps me, as well as them, because it makes me see something positive that can come from my pain - understanding another person who is desperate for empathy.
I have gotten a lot of help from Recovery Nation. This is a tough one, because it makes you face some pretty scary things. But it is invaluable. I encourage you to try it if you haven't already. I am slowly and carefully working through the lessons and they have really helped me to understand what this problem is all about, to redefine my values, to lay down my expectations, to decide what I want to do. I recently completed the lesson on assessing his sincerity and it was a huge comfort to me. I suspect that with Witnesses commitment to change this it would comfort you, too. I can imagine that it is a very, very difficult course to go through if you are with someone who is still in denial. But it has helped me and it may help you, too.
Finally, this is very new to me - but I am being helped by working on myself a bit. Or maybe its more like appreciating myself. I am trying not to compare myself with the porn girls. I am never going to look like them. Frankly, I never did, even when I was young. But I am almost 40 and I will never look 18 again. It is helping me to just face that and realize that that is OK.
I got a really cute haircut this week. I bought some new lipstick. At first I would look in the mirror - stare into my own eyes and just cry and cry. I look in the mirror now and think, no I am no porn star. But I am not too bad. If my husband does a complete turn around and decides he wants porn, that will be his decision. I am a real person - I have a lot to give. I have cute hair and shiny lips
I look like a PTA mom, thats what I am.
If he decides that isn't what he wants - well, I'll deal with that when the time comes. I should be appreciated for what I am. Part of my problem is that I always though that I
was. My husband was always sweet to me and made me feel wanted. To find out what he was really after is just devastating. He says he never really wanted those women, it was a compulsion and all in service to the soothing that the mb gave him. I am trying to believe that, I know that will help me.
But he is choosing me now. He said to me one night - don't you see, I don't want that - I want you - you win. I took that to heart. But I also think differently than I ever have before. I think about the possibility of finding another man. I don't want to do that, but I will not sentence myself to a life with porn or a life of loneliness. So if he chooses me, if he continues on the path he is on, I will be very very happy. And if he doesn't I will take my cute hair and shiny lips and sense of humor and compassionate spirit and listening ears and make a life for myself. Its a hard, hard thing to think. I never , ever before even
considered the possibility that we wouldn't be together until we died. But I have had to. And it helps to realize that I would be OK. I would make myself be OK. It also helps to realize that my thinking like that makes my husbands resolve ever more strong. Because after all, what I really, really want, is him.
So I try to appreciate him. He did some horrible, cr*ppy, God-awful things behind my back. He lied to me, and it is very hard to admit that to myself. But he is doing what is right
now. I simply had to make a choice - cut myself off from him emotionally, or try to fight for what I thought we had - what I know we can still achieve. I chose to stay, to try. The choice that I
wanted was to make it not true, To make the reality that I believed in the real one. But I had to face that he did these things. Our marriage was not what I thought. I am still really, really mad about that. But my anger doesn't change what really happened. So I had to determine where to go from here, knowing what I know.
I have read posts from people who say that they are actually in better relationships
now than before they found out about the p. I can see how that could happen. We are getting closer and closer. It breaks my heart that my husband turned to mb for comfort instead of me. Breaks my heart that I wasnt there for him the way I thought I was. So we are working on intimacy. I am listening to him. Trying to help him through. Sometimes it works, sometimes I get really mad about what he is saying. The way I see it is this - my heart is already broken. I have invested many years in this man. I love him. I owe it to myself to know that no matter what ever happens I gave this my very best shot. I told him how I felt. I listened to him. We showed our true emotions and tried everything. And I pray that that will get us through and give us a healthy marriage in the end.
So - what helps me? Feeling what I feel and having no hesitation or guilt about it. Looking critically at my husband and determining his level of sincerity. Realizing what he is doing right, and being grateful for it. Talking, talking, talking. Learning about this problem - realizing that it has deep roots, and that it can be dealt with. Taking the comfort that my husband can give me on whatever level
I want it. Expressing anger. Exercising my right to be in charge. Reading the boards - seeing things from the perspective of other women and realizing that I am not alone. Doing the lessons on RN, empowering myself with knowledge and clear ideas of what I expect. Accepting that my life was not what I thought it was - but hoping that it may be in the future. Realizing that its OK that I do not look like a porn star. Looking for my own positive attributes. Internalizing that no matter what happens I will get through and be OK. Hoping, praying, working with my husband to get to the place where we want to be. Hoping
and working.
Above all being true to myself, I guess.
I didn't mean to write a book - but it is good therapy for me to get all of this out. I would
love to know what is helping you, Devastated, because I sense that we and our husbands have some things in common. Keep coming here to "talk" - it is good to have friends who understand you. Most of all today, I wish you some peace. I am finally coming to a place where I feel a bit of peace again now and then, and I hope that you are, too.