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Post by completelydone on Sept 19, 2007 8:23:55 GMT -5
Yes, truthbeknown, having to act normal in the middle of all this is soooo hard. No one here knows so I have to be an actress most of the time. And, it is emotionally wrenching. In fact, one of the hardest places for me to be is at church. We are very involved Christians and it's hard for me to reconcile the addiction with going to church and appearing to be a dedicated Christian man. I guess that shows the power the devil has in this addiction, and can have in all our lives. It's a struggle to be an authenic person and this addiction encourages secrecy. They keep up a secret life while maintaining the appearance of normalcy in all aspects. That part has really been hard to process, and the lies that go in with maintaining the secret life. I'm still working on processing all this. The hurt will take months but my anger level is better. And, I'm trying to take things one step at a time. Thanks for the input and concern. There are a lot of carnal Christians. We are all still human after all. If we learn to walk from the new inward nature, instead of from the old outward one, then we won't struggle with sinful strongholds anymore. (((((((devastated))))))))))))) Take care, CD
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Post by completelydone on Sept 19, 2007 8:26:38 GMT -5
devastated said:
You couldn't if you wanted to. It would be false and you would have to go back and deal with it to heal.
It is a long road for us to recovery as SO's. He will just have to accept that and try to understand.
Take care, CD
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Post by glofishy on Sept 19, 2007 10:29:37 GMT -5
Is there perhaps another church nearby that offers a women's ministry that you could attend? That way, you can speak out and be validated in a setting that is comfortable for you.
In the meantime, you don't need to be an actress. You go ahead and show whatever you're feeling and if someone asks you what's wrong, just tell them that you're dealing with oppression from the devil or something. No need to go into details until you want to.
It can be hard because we as women tend to be people pleasers. You act a certain way at church because that's what's expected of you. Smile, hugs, and comments about how good the Lord is to you. That all is true, but what you're dealing with is truth too.
I think if your hubby would drop the facade of being a blemish free dedicated Christian and just admit to people that he's been struggling lately in his walk, again, no need to add details, it might be easier for you to swallow. I think he should do this to help validate your feelings, and to humble himself before the congregation.
Pride was the first sin, right?
*hugs Devastated* You'll get through this love.
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Post by devastated on Sept 21, 2007 5:45:44 GMT -5
Thanks to all of you for the replies. You all help me so much. I can't tell you how much. Just knowing what I'm going through, thinking, feeling, etc. is all normal has helped me a lot. This is such a new thing for me - I've never even known anyone in my situation. If I had, I don't think I would have known how to help her. One thing about this, only people who have been through it, really understand the awfulness of it all.
Truthbeknown, I know I have to be careful not to get stuck in the past and miss the present. I've already seen that in time away from my son. But, every time I think of a special couple memory (trips, gifts, etc.), I get mad and remember he was a pa at the time. I can't think of those things in a very positive light anymore. I've still got a lot to work through. My past with my h has been tainted and colored by p. And, I don't know how to work through it. I assume the best way is just by prayer and time. But, it's certainly no fun.
I don't mind his traveling. It has given me time to think. He's with family so I don't think he's being tempted. Perhaps I'm wrong. I think I will always be affected by triggers. Even if he isn't seeking out p anymore, I think I will always wonder when he sees a sensually dressed woman (and there are plenty of them around here) if he is lusting. I hate thinking and feeling this way. But, for years, I thought I was the only woman in his brain (sure I knew he looked briefly - most men do- but not like this). To find out I was hardly there and had been replaced by visions of p, is almost more than I can bear.
Yes, stillhopeful, I do believe my h truly wants to recover. And, he's making progress. That is what makes me stay in the relationship. I'm just having trouble processing all this and coming to terms with the past. A weekly report is a good idea. I don't want to play the role of the porn police, but accountablity is needed.
CD, I know it will be a long recovery. And, I must admit, I'm so tired to the subject of p. thinking about it, going over things in my mind. This is a dark, eveil world my h has brought me to. And, I hate it. I try to take breaks from the board. You've probably noticed that I'm not on everyday. So, I think that's been good. Wish I could off the thoughts in my mind as easily.
I'm still hanging in and trying to make sense of it all. My h is supportive in as far as he can be. I'm plodding along with the Lord's help. Thanks for the encouragment.
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Post by completelydone on Sept 21, 2007 14:16:45 GMT -5
devastated said:
I know how you feel. I thought porn and the evilness of it all was far behind me. I resent him still at times for bringing it back into my life; with no care for me.
((((((((((((devastated)))))))))))))))))))))
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Post by devastated on Sept 23, 2007 19:28:48 GMT -5
I'm still trying to make sense of everything and my anger is back with a vengeance. My h returns tomorrow from his trip. The break has actually been good for me and has given me lots of time to think. I don't know how much I've healed, though. I keep wondering how this man who I thought I knew could do such a thing and for so long. For my whole married life. It's almost inconceivable. I now wonder who he really is. If I was so wrong about him in this respect, do I really know him at all? I truly believe that the porn stole true intimacy from us, and I have to conclude that perhaps I don't know him like I thought.
It still makes me sooo mad for him to say that even though he was doing that, he still had true feelings for me. But those feelings weren't enough to make him stop, or even consider telling me or anyone else for years. I now wonder what kind of love he feels for me. Is it a true love? Perhaps I'll never know. I always thought we had a love and a relationship based on truth, understanding, and mutual respect. Now I see that what we had wasn't based on truth, nor was it based on mutual respect. If he had respected me, he would not have done that for so long,imo. Nor, would he have lied to me. Before finding out about the pa, I truly believed he was always honest with me. How could I have been so wrong about him?
I've written my h a long letter that he will read when he gets back. I've put lots of thoughts and feelings in it. I think the process has been good for me. Thanks for all the feedback. I pray each of you will have a blessed week in spite of the difficulties each of us is facing.
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Post by truthbeknown on Sept 23, 2007 20:30:27 GMT -5
Hi D, Again, everything you say makes sense. The questioning of your past...I know....it's maddening, isn't it? I used to get annoyed when someone would remind me about the realities of s## addiction. "Baffling" and "Cunning" are certainly very fitting words...you're doing what so many of us have done...thinking back to those special times with your husband and wondering just how "special" they really were. It's okay. And from my experience anyway, I think those special, close times were probably just as good as you felt them to be at the time. I have not seen evidence, by my experience, that s## addiction pervades every single breathing moment for my husband. There is tons of evidence that the power of his addiction really did seem to come and go. Knowing what I know now about it all, I know that my husband could NEVER have pulled off some of our special times together if he'd been P-ing or wanting to P. Again, it's that duplicity I mentioned before, but I don't think that duplicity is in constant operation among many people coping with this addiction. That opinion comes only from what I've seen with my own eyes, of course. I believe your husband must love and respect you very much...but before he could "know" how much he was hurting you by doing these things, by seeing it as he can see it now, the major power of addiction so often overwhelms rational thought and acts based on "love and respect." Addicts suffer from their difficulty to respect themselves, so I guess its somehow inevitable that they find it difficult to make choices based on what's best for someone else, especially when their addiction is in an active state. That doesn't mean you have to accept the more troubling aspect of this addiction, it's just to say that his shame over what he does/has done and how he acts on that really has nothing to do with you, except that you are probably the last person on the planet that he'd want this exposed to. He's revealed his truth to you now, but that doesn't mean that he's perfectly equipped to face everything you are feeling. From his posts, it seems to me that it is VERY important to him that you are happy, and yet he knows you can't be happy now, so there it is again....BAFFLING. It can be dizzying, I know, but it can, and does, get better when people continue to work a strong, honest program of recovery. I know you wish you'd been told sooner. I do too. It might have given you the opportunity to work through some other things more productively (like the parenting issues with your last child) but addiction is....ugh....cunning. It yields a mighty power and it sabotages many opportunities to improve within a marriage. I have not achieved this 100% on all days, but I do see it much more clearly after all these years that my husband's addiction is not the sum of who he is as a person. There are days when he loathes the very industry that has him hooked. There are measurable differences in my husband based on whether he is loathing the power that P has in our world or loathing himself. He uses when he hates himself the most. He hates himself the most when he uses. That's the friggin cunning part, I think. For my husband, the only thing that gets him out of that cycle is a strong commitment to recognize the falsehoods of his belief system, and the energy/slash commitment to act differently even when he doesn't yet believe it will help him. Between your husband and mine, I think your husband has WAY more insight and determination in his recovery than mine ever did, so in that, I do feel a real sense of hope for you two. Nonetheless, I still connect with how you feel right now and I wish your healing could be set to turbo speed. You want him to be sober. I believe he wants to be sober. If it were only through "wanting it" and "love"...alot of people would have achieved sobriety a long time ago. I'm not trying to discount ANYthing of how this feels to you now, and its okay that you are exactly where you are in this, since this is all so new. I know how scared and upset you feel right now, and it's important that you get to be there honestly, however you can. This used to drive me crazy when I'd be told this in my early days with this issue, but...sigh...I have to give you the caring reminder that the choices he's made in his addiction or far more about his ADDICTION than anything to do with you, how attractive you are compared to the next woman, how attentive you've been towards him, how much he loves you or cares about you... I don't know the details of your husband's addictive behaviors, but it was helpful to me at the more difficult times to try to think of my husband's P and MB as the crack cocaine to his brain. I would not have been as intimidated or felt as forsaken if my husband had been addicted to crack, yet his powerlessness seemed right in line with that of a crack addict. He could not stop wanting it, even when it was still secretly tearing his life apart, or later when the truth was exposed. My husband never took any steps similar to those your partner is taking, and I pray for both of you that you'll keep working on it and find some serenity again. For me, and for many others, anger is a symptom of the fear/hurt we feel, and it was helpful to me in my recovery when I was able to get honest about my anger and admit to my feelings in words that reflected that fear and hurt, rather than the angry words that came much more easily. For me, if I'm coming from anger, I'd almost always start off with "You......." I was being my most honest (and I could have done alot better with this, that's why I want to share it with you now) when I'd start off with my deeper feelings...that usually started something like "I'm really suffering with this today" or "My head is filled with angry, spiteful things about you" or "I'm afraid I'll never be enough for you" or "I'm afraid I will never feel the level of trust in you I need to be happy in marriage." I was almost always better "heard" in those cases than when I really let him have it. No one ever achieves all of that with perfection, though! Some times I needed to let him have it, and that's that. I don't think my post has flowed very well, or if it's even offered anything useful to you (I'm really distracted over getting back to a project I'm on...sorry!), but I hope there's something in it for you. I get you. I totally get you. We're here. Lisa
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Post by devastated on Sept 24, 2007 5:25:44 GMT -5
Lisa, Thanks so much for you letter of encouragement. Yes, there was much there for me to think about and it made sense. I do think the 'I' statements are good. I've heard that before but must admit I haven't been putting them into practice. Thanks for the reminder. I know intellectually that this wasn't about me, but it sure feels like it. It's hard for me to get past the fact that he was buying into the world's definition of beauty and couldn't get enough of it.
I have to get to work so later I'll reread your letter later (it's later here than it is there). Thanks again. God bless.
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Post by mo4wo1 on Sept 24, 2007 8:13:43 GMT -5
Build a new history. I believe we have to build a new history with our SA partners.
It is so hard to do, to let go & do it. My H has been so different & it really feels sincere. Not just seems, but feels different. He's working to build a new history with me. I am working to accept it & let go of the past. Not so much that I fall victim, again. But enough to stop living in it every day... and it's so very hard.
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Post by truthbeknown on Sept 24, 2007 12:21:42 GMT -5
((((((((((((((((D)))))))))))))))))
Yeah, that "buying into it" piece is hard, isn't it? Especially when a partner is otherwise very intelligent. Unfortunately, the frontal lobe gets completely hijacked by the rush from this stuff. I have had to remind myself in my husband's moments of P-ing, he becomes completely mentally disabled.
Best wishes for your husband's return. I wish you peace as you reconnect. Lisa
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Post by devastated on Sept 28, 2007 16:01:54 GMT -5
I've been off the board for several days. Actually, my mind and my heart have been on overload. My h was gone to visit one of our sons and our son is having very serious problems and has made some very bad choices in his life. So, trying to deal with the consequences of all that have been overwhelming. That, combined with my recent knowledge of my h's problem and have almost too much to bear. But, today I'm feeling better and know that only God can make sense of all this. The good thing is that for the first time, our son has come clean with everything so I feel there is hope, even though the situation is very difficult.
I still feel a lot of hurt and anger over my h's pa, but I do think he's sincere is making a clean break. As some of you mentioned, we are trying to write a new story. It won't be easy but it is possible. It will take a lot of work. I appreciate all the suggestions that so many of you have sent. My h also brought back several books which I'm starting to read.
My prayer is that God will hold my hand through all this and that I will come out a stronger person, with much personal and spiritual growth as a result. Problems are never easy but we grow through them. I guess one thing is that I was blindsided by this as I never expected that my h would deceive me and lie to me this way. He was the person I trusted most. And, yes, living with the fact that he will always be tempted by p and could go back to it, is not easy. I pray to God for strength to grow.
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Post by Benderson on Sept 28, 2007 20:10:54 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear about your son. I hope everything will be okay. (((devastated)))
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Post by random77 on Sept 28, 2007 21:30:01 GMT -5
You are not alone.
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Post by completelydone on Sept 30, 2007 10:18:48 GMT -5
Devestated,
How are you doing?
I just wanted to mention to you, that PA/SA's continue use porn behind our backs because they don't have empathy for other people. They have hardened their hearts; the Bible calls it a seared conscience, science calls it sociopaths/psychopaths depending on how evil they've become. Unfortunately, most who eventually become PA/SA's have a head start on cold heartedness because they were brought up to not feel (it's too weak and you won't be validated anyway), not to talk (no one wants to hear their problems), and not to trust (they come to this conclusion on their own from traumatic life experiences).
I believe this is a common denominator among addicts in general; not just porn addicts, but especially porn addicts.
So, for the PA/SA to heal "recover" they must learn to love again, or for the first time. Part of love is EMPATHY for others. It is feeling the human pain and suffering they are, or could cause in others. It is learning to put more value on your family than on ones self; and thus treating them with TLC out of abundance of the heart, instead of from rules.
Sociopaths are not born, they are made. They are molded by parents that way, and/or mold themselves to be that way as a survival method. Society itself tries to mold all men to be that way by pushing the idea upon them that to feel anything other than anger, happiness, or horniness is unmanly. So they learn to suppress and harden their hearts, all in an attempt to be what they already are- men. And they push all their feelings into the mold of angry, happy, or horny; or repress them all together.
You are right when you said your husband has bought into what the world says is beauty, but he has bought into much more than that. He has bought into some very destructive worldly belief systems about manhood, sex, beauty, and what brings life. He can never get life from death; yet that is what he has tried to do. If he really believed he were partaking of death, why would he continue to do so?
Addicts are reasonable human beings, not mentally disabled, so why do they continue what they do? It's because they feel the benefits (the rush in this case) outweighs the consequences. They are wrong, dead wrong, but that is why they continue their behavior. They are deceived, deluded. Part of our job is to make sure the consequences outweigh the benefits to them; via ultimatum. When the consequences hurt more than losing that rush, they will do what reasonable people do (in most cases) and choose YOU.
Their job to recover becomes self discovery, and a change of heart. They have to literally remake themselves (by renewing their minds). They have to get it that they will only find death where they once believed there was life. They have to undo all the lies, false perceptions of manhood, sex, what they will get out of sin, etc. AND they have to learn love. They have to learn to FEEL, talk, trust. They often have to deal with unresolved trauma, as that is commonly a root of addiction. They have to be willing to feel however, to deal with past traumas that they repressed.
I wish you both the best, CD
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Post by devastated on Oct 4, 2007 19:05:58 GMT -5
I haven't been feeling well physically for the past week or so. I guess all the emotional turmoil is hitting the weak spots in my system. I'm still hanging in - but sometimes it feels like just by a thread. I've been reading a book on forgiveness and that has been good. I'm not to the point of forgiveness but I hope to make it there one day. The hurt is still too raw.
I'm trying to remember, as one of you suggested, that my h is more than just a recovering pa. I know he has lots of good qualities. But right now, it's hard to see that all the time. In my saner moments I do, but sometimes I just look at him and think: How could you do this to me and to our marriage. I told him today that I had always felt that our marriage was built on trust, honesty, and faithfulness. And, that whatever else, we had that. To see that those things were missing from our marriage all that time really hurts. I still have trouble getting past the fact that for all our marriage he was unfaithful and dishonest. I really don't know how to process it all. I see that he's trying and recovering. But, I still hurt so much.
I just needed to put some feelings on paper. Thanks for listening.
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