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Post by somedood on Dec 18, 2007 16:24:54 GMT -5
This is such a fundamental principle of salvation, but wow, it can be pretty hard to grasp at times.
When I really think about it, though, I wonder how much of a difference it really makes. If I confess and forsake my sins, but a year later fall back into the same behavior pattern I wouldn't be able to dwell with God in that state, or if I hadn't stopped in the first place. Unlcleanliness is uncleanliness, but would it have an effect on the degree of suffering in the afterlife? Maybe?
A couple nights ago I was reading and a passage popped out at me. It's in 2 Nephi 9:51:
51 - Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your alabor for that which cannot satisfy. Hearken diligently unto me, and remember the words which I have spoken; and come unto the Holy One of Israel, and cfeast upon that which perisheth not, neither can be corrupted, and let your soul delight in fatness.
"Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth" - It says elsewhere in the scriptures that we recieve our rewards from those that we serve, and if i'm spending my money on purely temporal things they'll die along with my body and that's that. However, the next part is what really stood out.
"nor your alabor for that which cannot satisfy" - This for me perfectly describes SA. It gets so all-consuming, and gives nothing back in return, except for an even larger appetite.
One thing I'm not sure about is, is forgiveness attained, or obtained? Maybe a better word is cleanliness... but is it a point in life that we reach after living our lives correctly - and we must keep doing so in order to stay at that point, sort of like earning it, or is it something that we receive? That may just be semantics for the same thing, but I'm not sure which of the two words describes it best.
Just to let you guys know, I really really really appreciate what this thread (and all the others on this board) does to help me better myself and overcome this obstacle. Thank you guys so much for your input, insight and encouragement.
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Post by ladybug71 on Dec 19, 2007 12:40:46 GMT -5
Wow-these are some great questions, guys.
I can really identify with the "former sins return" problem. What gets me is that sometimes I feel like even if I only "cross the line" a little bit, then suddenly everything bad that I've ever done with P or MB comes back immediately in full force. It's a HUGE worry some times.
I think it is also part of what drives my tendancy towards perfectionist thinking. It is hard to believe that I can "get better over time" when I feel like each time I mess up every bad sin I've ever done with regards to this addiciton comes back to haunt me. It feeds the shame and self-deprecating feelings I get whenever I am struggling.
This line of thinking can't be right, but I worry that it is. Anybody have any bright ideas that can help me (and maybe others) see this more clearly?
Another thought that was brought up was whether "clean" is an event or a process. I guess that as of today, right now, I am not positive how to answer that. I think there have been times in my life when I have felt it as an "event", such as after I get out of a Bishop's interview and have confessed and discussed my problems with him. At other times, though, it seems like it NEEDS to be more of a process.
Finally, somdood-I also really like that scriptures, and others like it. P and MB really are hollow, temporary pleasures, that leave me ultimately more empty then when I started... now I just have to remember that when I'm having a "bad day!"
I look forward to hearing other people's insights on these topics...
lb
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Post by Curious Voyager on Dec 19, 2007 14:14:23 GMT -5
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tw45
New Member
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Post by tw45 on Dec 19, 2007 15:13:55 GMT -5
Great article CV, gives much food for thought.
thanks
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Post by Big Country on Dec 19, 2007 18:34:31 GMT -5
There is alot in that article CV. I have used Meridian in the past to teach lessons, but I had forgotten about it recently. Thanks for the reminder.
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zenzx
New Member
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Post by zenzx on Dec 24, 2007 1:07:24 GMT -5
I apologize for having not checked in when I said I was. Still haven't been able to see my bishop yet, but I do have an appointment for next sunday (last sunday I was sick, today I wasn't able to get an appointment (for some reason)). I was wondering...I just signed up on the new board and I noticed there is not yet an lds support thread in the recovering addicts forum but an accountability circle with a bunch of you guys (with some pretty strict post minimum requirements if I may add ) Are you guys deciding that we aren't going to do the support thread or um...whats going on?
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Post by Big Country on Dec 24, 2007 11:53:19 GMT -5
I'm sure it will pop up. If anything, I'll do it if necessary. The LDS thread was a lifesaver for me and it is definately something that needs to be started up again.
Good luck with the meeting on Sunday. I always felt like a load was lifted off my shoulders for a while after meeting with the bishop. Hopefully soon, the discussion will start to turn into what I need to do to get my recommend back. We moved from Utah to Indiana and the Nauvoo temple is only 6 hours away. I would think it fitting if after 7 years, that is where I first re-entered.
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zenzx
New Member
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Post by zenzx on Dec 27, 2007 3:24:34 GMT -5
Thanks BC. I've said it before, but I'm scared. The first time I told him (summer 06) it wasn't planned at all. I never had the intention of telling him. I was just in a temple recommend interview with him and when he said "do you feel worthy of this recommend?" (or something like that), and I said "No." I was quiet for a few minutes, and then I explained everything to him. I completely broke down. I don't cry much, but in that moment I completely lost it...cryin like a baby.
I guess...I just don't know what I'm going to say. "I have had plenty of slips since then and I haven't reported them to you cause I'm a chicken?" Ugh. And then on top of that, to tell him that lately I feel like I think I may be completely addicted again and I feel like I'm teetering on the edge of sanity and depression? That I can't go for three days without looking at five minutes of P-?
I know it's the right call to make...but it just...I just feel sick to my stomach thinking about it. This Sunday will be one of the most trying days of my life...
On another note...I thought a lot about Christ this week. It's definitely giving me more hope for this Sunday. In Gethsemane he suffered so I could confess my sins this Sunday and begin the repentance process. I gotta do this. If not for me, but for him.
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Post by Big Country on Dec 30, 2007 17:59:09 GMT -5
Zenzx, In regards to your confession, what you thought about saying sounded perfectly fine to me. Believe it or not, Bishops have heard it all and that kind of honesty comes from someone who is truly recognizing that he needs help. I think we are all starting to migrate to the new board and this one is getting checked less and less. I intend on starting an LDS thread over there in the next day or two if no one else does.
How did the interview go?
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zenzx
New Member
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Post by zenzx on Jan 2, 2008 0:06:57 GMT -5
Well...it went well i guess. I explained that i have had slips and that i haven't been reporting any to him. He talked to me about the savior and how the atonement can help me through this. He also said he was glad that I talked to him about it and it was good that i recognized that I still needed help. We spoke about going to one of the local support groups, and he had a few suggestions for things that can help me.
I guess I am a bit worried I didn't...i'm worried that it didn't come out right. I'm ocd so I guess that no matter how i had said it I would probably be worried anyway. But...I was so scared about saying it that I just don't know if it came out the way i had written it in that last post. I worry that i may have made it seem like "i have had some slips" and not more like "i've been slipping a lot lately" (the latter is more accurate).
I dunno. But overall I felt good talking to him about it. I am gonna look for the support group and try to keep a more positive attitude on this. Guess I'll see what happens.
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StrikeTheDemons
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(I know, it's a dumb avatar, but there isn't much to choose from)
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Post by StrikeTheDemons on Jan 10, 2008 14:38:46 GMT -5
Zenzx,
Need any help finding a group? I can help you out if you're in UT. PM me if you're interested.
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