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Post by Mountain on Nov 20, 2007 23:48:12 GMT -5
Big Country,
Welcome to the board and to this thread. Thanks for sharing some of your story.
I look forward to seeing your 90 days of posts. Make sure you do a lot of reading too. :-)
I hope you can reunite with your family soon. It is hard to be away.
Indiana is a great place but I am sure it will be much better with your family at your side.
Mountain.
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Post by Big Country on Nov 21, 2007 20:08:15 GMT -5
Back for day two. Today was a good day so far, but it is only 7:30 at night and I have a big challenge ahead of me. Unfortunately, I am unable to home with my family for Thanksgiving. I am spending the next four days at my crappy temporary apartment by myself. Isolation and boredom, what a great combo. At least I'm aware of myself to realize what a challenge this could be. I do have someone from the ward who invited me over for dinner tomorrow and I plan on spending some time doing some shopping, but that will only take up so much of my time. I also plan on reading some more post here. I sure wish there were enough members of the church who were honest with their addictions to keep this post active all the time. Of course, I went almost 20 years hiding it, so I can't be too judgemental.
I am actually looking forward to the next 4 days passing quickly because then I will only be 3 days away from my family rejoining me! I was contemplating today that it is a good thing the house sold when it did, because I was probably getting close to a breaking point. If I realized today where I was at, it would have taken too long to get everyone out here and I might have taken some serious steps backward. I think the Lord had a hand in the timing.
I told my wife about my committment to make 90 posts and she was supportive, but I think she thought it was a bit weird. I encouraged her to start reading some of the support posts, but she is a little worried about searching for a website called no porn at her mom's house. I really wish they could have picked a different name. She has made tremendous strides in understanding the addiction, but she has never been quite as excited as me when I learn a new tool for fighting it.
Thanks for the messages of support that I got from a couple of you. I hope that even though I am new to this board, I can offer encouragement to others. It is interesting to read different posts and to realize how far I have come. Many of the post I have read are from people just starting out fighting this addiction and they are amazed at how powerful the hold is on them. While it is still a major struggle with me, those posts help me realize that I've actually made a bit of progress and it gives me hope for the future. In fact, yesterday I was fishing with someone from work and it was quiet and calm and the thought came to me that in the past, I would have been thinking about p and instead my mind had been clear and relaxed. Of course the next few minutes I had to fight away the urge to fantasize because it was almost like my mind realized that it wasn't acting normal. Why couldn't I have been an alchoholic? It seems like it would have been so much easier.
I have a question for everyone, are you ever thankful for this addiction? In a way, I think this addiction has been responsible for me being a better person. Through all the struggles to overcome it, I have had to learn some things about myself and change in a way that make me a better person. I have become kinder and, dare I say, humbler because of it. Of course, one of the scriptures I hang onto is Alma 32:13 "Because ye are compelled to be humble blessed are ye; for a man sometimes, if he is compelled to be humble, seeketh repentance; and now surely, whosoever repenteth shall find mercy; and he that findeth mercy and endureth to the end the same shall be saved." It makes me feel like the Lord cares about me enough to humble me. I really don't care too much about the next verse where it talks about how great the person is who humbles himself without being compelled because, if I understand it correctly, WE STILL GET TO GO TO THE SAME PLACE AND HAVE THE SAME BLESSINGS!!! This is one of those concepts that helps me deal with alot of the pain the addiction causes in my life. I also stumbled across D&C section 122 where Joseph is being reminded that the son of God had decended below all of us and are we greater than him? If you are ever feeling sorry for yourself about how hard this is, re-read that section to remind you that the Savior really does understand our struggle.
These are just a few random thoughts I have been thinking of and I would like to send a challenge out to those of you that haven't posted in a while. Remember that you never know if your small encouragement sent to someone might just be the difference to someone ready to throw in the towel. Plus, I never had a stronger testimony than when I was telling people daily of how to get one for themselves.
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tw45
New Member
Posts: 28
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Post by tw45 on Nov 22, 2007 16:19:32 GMT -5
Big Country
A few things in your post struck a chord with me.
I can relate to the increase and tolerance and humility as the things which we battle compell us to plead for those very same gifts from others, spouses bishops etc. As King Benjamin said in Mosiah - are we not all beggars for all that we have even our breath.
I also agree that to achieve any degree of success in fighting this addiction a great deal of honest soul searching and self evaluation is required. As a result one cannot help but gain some tremendous insights into their own nature as well as human nature and even Gods nature.
Also by working through this struggle over the years my relationship with my Father in Heaven and The Saviour has reached a level that I believe for most is unattainable without the most wrenching and overwhelming of trials.
Of course all of these positive things are much clearer when I am free from this sin ( currently almost 2 months)
I also believe that the Lord can and does intervene and sometimes manipulates and influences things beyond our control such as selling your house.
Boredom and isolation are major triggers for me as well and unfortunately I have no magic solutions but sometimes we just have to endure. I think I have felt what you are feeling and hope and pray that you are well.
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Post by Big Country on Nov 22, 2007 22:35:38 GMT -5
tw45, I agree with that this addiction has required me to do alot of of self reflection. In fact, I almost think that it has turned into a big advantage for me. I am in management at work and I think the ability I have developed to evaluate myself and my motives has helped me resonate an honesty and sincerity with others when I'm trying to set a vision of what I want the workplace to be like. I have found myself going from being willing to fire anyone who didn't do exactly as I said to honestly caring about people and the impact that I had on their families and lives.
I also find that when I share some of my insites of myself, some people are surprised at the level that I am willing to admit my shortcomings and struggles. In the corporate world, I find that some people are so concerned about other's perceptions of them that they don't make any real progress in personal development. Of course, just as many people think I'm full of it too, so I don't let it get to my head. Me, personally, I don't much care anymore about climbing that ladder and thinking happiness is one promotion or pay raise away. I just want to be a better person and I know I can't do that by pretending I'm stronger or better than I am. I've played that game for the past 20 years and I'm tired of it. I also don't want to follow anyone who can't see beyond the next quarter's results.
I've pretty much made it through today and I've done very well. I still have three big days to go before I have some real distractions, but one more day sober means the world to me right now.
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Post by Big Country on Nov 23, 2007 15:54:53 GMT -5
I've been going through that natural cycle of no temptation after a relapse and renewed resolve. Today I noticed that I was noticing women a little more today. I very quickly switched my mental path, but its too bad that the reduced temptation phase can't be with us always. One thing that I find very interesting is that the more people I meet and talk to with this addiction, the more the stories sound the same. I tend to talk in generalities now when I refer to my behaviors because I have yet to find someone who doesn't experience the same things in the same way I do. The only difference is how far down the recovery path they have come.
I guess when the adversary has had 5000 years to perfect his technique, he is going to stick with what works. Now, as to me having to make 3 of the last 4 post, I will pm others until they are shamed into posting if I have to. Is there somewhere else all the LDS guys are hanging out or are you too tired from all the Turkey?
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Post by Curious Voyager on Nov 23, 2007 20:50:35 GMT -5
Now, as to me having to make 3 of the last 4 post, I will pm others until they are shamed into posting if I have to. Is there somewhere else all the LDS guys are hanging out or are you too tired from all the Turkey? Big Country, no one made you post the last 3 of 4, you chose to and GOOD for you. Regularly posting can be very helpful. Now, my brother, lets look at a poor choice of words. You cannot shame addicts into anything. We addicts are already well versed in personal shame and this will likely produce the opposite effect you seek. Not scolding, just sharing my experience. Let us persuade gently, cajole, encourage, promote, pray and plead for our brothers to participate and not for our sakes but for theirs. And I have been in a turkey stupor for 48 hours myself. Tonight we made spring rolls, pork dumplings and fried rice for supper. My grand daughter is running rampant through the house. It is a pleasure to feel annoyed and at peace. Be well brother BC, we each have to work our own recovery and give what support we can. We are very much worth the effort.
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Post by Big Country on Nov 24, 2007 0:00:33 GMT -5
Well put cv, unfortunately my sense of humor sometimes puts people off and I was only kidding about shaming people into posting. I'm just one who likes to have frequent feedback and open communication lines.
To be honest, I also get frustrated with the percentage of men in the LDS community who don't openly talk about this problem. I think that shame is a big reason we wait until we, in many cases, lose everything that is important to us. If more people would talk about it, perhaps I wouldn't have waited 20 years to get serious about recovery.
Of course, I am running that perception through my own personal filters and I may be completely off base. I am also the one who chose to wait that long. I didn't need others talking about it to recognize the damage it was doing to me and my family to realize that I needed to stop my addiction. I welcome any challenge to my beliefs.
I did have a friend who transfered out here at the same time as me invite me to Thanksgiving dinner. It was nice, but not the same as being around my family of course.
That leads me to another topic in which I would appreciate your input. My friend who invited me is LDS and we have actually been rooming together for the past two months in order to save on living expenses while we are apart from our families. There have been several times when I wanted to tell him about my addiction, but he is, how do I put this, very righteous and I'm sure that this is something he has never dealt with. Someone might say that you never know if someone hasn't dealt with this problem in the past, but living with someone, I think an addict might pick up on some clues.
I worry if I tell him, he might not view it the same way as me and might get weird on me. I would like to build a support system out here, but I think I will withhold this information for now. I just know that he will notice that the ward just split and there are alot of vacancies and I probably won't get a calling.
I choose not to carry the burden of trying to be someone I'm not and it has nothing to do with pretending that I'm anything other than a p addict. I'm just worried that he is going to call me in the middle of the night to come help him bless his sick kid and then I will have to have the conversation that I'm not worthy and can't help him. I also envision this happening in front of his wife who would probably freak out.
I don't know, but has anyone had a bad experience disclosing the addiction to someone?
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Post by Curious Voyager on Nov 24, 2007 10:03:03 GMT -5
BC, are you my long lost twin?
Recovery involves risks. Addiction is safe, we grew comfortable with our addiction and know the rules.
Recovery is new ground and we have to stumble and feel our way through.
I have had a couple mild negative experiences disclosing but most overwhelmingly have been gentle, supportive, and understanding. But everyone was done with apprehension before hand.
We are only "required" to disclose to the Bishop, our partners and any we have harmed and need to make amends to. Anyone else, and I have disclosed to others, should be those you have sufficient trust with.
The bottom line for me, where I am right now, is that it CANNOT matter who knows that I have been a porn addicts for decades and struggling. Because I am in recovery and I am sober.
This IS the Gospel of forgiveness not condemnation. It's the secrets of addiction that wear us down and kill our souls. I'm not ready to take out an ad in the paper but more and more people are becoming aware that I attend the stake 12-step meeting and I am NOT afraid anymore. What scares me is addiction not recovery.
There should be NO shame in being in recovery but tons from remaining an active addicts.
This might be confusing, I have a natural skill at that plus I am rushed. Hope this helped.
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Post by Big Country on Nov 24, 2007 14:33:42 GMT -5
CV, I wonder if you ever feel the urge to stand up in testimony meeting and declare what your problem is and plead for anyone else in the room who is fighting the same addiction to please come and talk to you about it.
I think this comes from an honest change of heart and the overwhelming gratitude we feel when we are rescued from this cycle. Maybe it's just me, but I can't picture Alma the younger going around and not talking about his past sins and pretending that he was always a saint. I bet alot of his fire when he preached came from being able to look people in the eye and say "I've been where you are and I found a better way"
I don't think anyone would get too worked up if someone brought up their past issues with alchohol or smoking or even drug use. But ours is a particular burden and not well understood by those who haven't been caught its nets.
I won't bring it up to people, but I have told the bishop that if anyone in the ward needs a friend while they are working through the problem, I would be more than willing to help out.
This is step 12 after all right?
I heard a quote that I'm going to make into my tagline.
"Pride and shame. You’d never know they are sisters. They appear so different. Pride puffs out her chest. Shame hangs her head. Pride boasts. Shame hides. Pride seeks to be seen. Shame seeks to be avoided.
But don’t be fooled, the emotions have the same parentage. And the emotions have the same impact.
They keep you from your father.
Pride says, “You’re too good for Him.”
Shame says, “You’re too bad for Him.”
Pride drives you away.
Shame keeps you away.
If pride is what goes before a fall, then shame is what keeps you from getting up after one."
I have never run across a quote that more fully explains my experience with this addiction.
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Corazon
Junior Member
CTR
Posts: 68
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Post by Corazon on Nov 24, 2007 14:49:14 GMT -5
I have a question for everyone, are you ever thankful for this addiction? For me, coming from the opposite side of the fence, it's hard to say whether I am thankful for the addiction or not. My husband brought a gigantic wedge into our marriage when he allowed his addiction to come before me; the lies, deceit, betrayal and hurt it caused still lingers with me today and probably will until the day I die. No amount of sobriety, remorse or restitition can completely remove the self-doubt and self-loathing my husband's addiction caused me. There are permanent holes in my soul, and that makes me sad.
However, because of the addiction, my husband and I are better communicators with each other and our relationship is stronger for having weathered some pretty severe storms. It's ironic that I had to learn to hate him before I could fully love him again. I wish there had been another way for us to get to this point...
He currently has a few years of sobriety, of which I am eternally grateful for, but I still carry with me the fear that it could all drop out from under us in an instant. It's up to him. There is no option for relapse and he knows it.
So, there you have it -- a convoluted answer from the ditzy wife of an addict. Aren't you glad you asked?
~ Corazon
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Post by Big Country on Nov 24, 2007 16:18:44 GMT -5
Corazon, to be honest, your post really scares me. I reached a point a year ago where my wife told me she was done and she really meant it. At that time, I recieved a gift from God where I finally understood how horribly I had harmed one of his most precious children and the nature of my sins. Since then, I have put a good amount of effort into the recovery process, but I have slipped a couple of times. I try and deal with it differently than I have in the past and both times I told my wife before she asked, but I remember looking at her and promising never to hurt her again and really meaning it. I have let her down twice since then and I don't know what that says about me as a man. I love her more now that I ever did and I have never loved anyone else even close to the level I love her.
I guess here is my concern. You said that there is no option for relapse and he knows it. Does that mean if he relapsed one time and immediatly told you about it that it would all be over? This scares the crap out of me because I worry that I won't be able to pull out of this fast enough before she gets fed up with me and realizes how much better she would be without me. I can honestly say that I have come a long way. I was using at least every day and sometimes 5-6 times a day.
I guess the question is, even with progress evident, is there a point where she would leave? I am committed to living my life free of this addiction and I'm not trying to give myself an out for relapsing. I just can't imagine a life without her.
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Post by Big Country on Nov 25, 2007 18:31:32 GMT -5
So I heard something at church today that was really obvious, but I had never thought about it. We were talking about being grateful and the teacher made the observation that he though that being ungrateful may be the reason some of our good moments aren't great.
You know how you feel right after a relapse and you go that first little while without using? That greatfulness of not having p run your life. The trick is to feel that way 3-6 months into the recovery process. We become complacent (ungrateful) and then it doesn't seem to be such a wonderful thing anymore, then BAM, relapse.
Does long term recovery really come down to being grateful for being p free? Perhaps that is why actively posting here and attending group sessions for so long is so important. I begin to be ungrateful for my life and it becomes so-so. Then after that, I begin to look for some excitement again.
Anyone want to chime in?
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Post by Curious Voyager on Nov 25, 2007 20:23:23 GMT -5
Does long term recovery really come down to being grateful for being p free? Perhaps that is why actively posting here and attending group sessions for so long is so important. I begin to be ungrateful for my life and it becomes so-so. Then after that, I begin to look for some excitement again. Anyone want to chime in? I know it comes down to WORK. Recovery is not a simple process. I do think daily gratitude is an important component and has sustaining value. BC don't be afraid of Corazon, she is like a well forged blade, straight and true with a sharp edge. She will never mix words or tell us what we 'want' to hear. She is a good sister to us. If something she says to you stings, look first to your Self and understanding may come your way. That has been my experience. About standing up in testimony and confessing--well yes, I actually felt that recently, I think as a component of my new felt freedom. I do not think that appropriate to do however. I am at the point now where it CANNOT matter who knows about my addiction. My recovery is far more important and I can't let a shame rebound derail me. On a more personal and intimate level I have in fact had brief discussion with a few men and offered to accompany them to group. It's like the SOs say they can spot a PA----well maybe the spirit will direct recovering addicts to those who are open to recovery. I pray for that.
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Post by SouthernGuy on Nov 26, 2007 11:45:41 GMT -5
BC,
It's great to hear from you. I confess, I have been in a holiday stupor for several days (no p, just distractions!). I'm only just now able to get back into the swing of things again.
There have been some interesting topics discussed over the past couple of days here. I have really enjoyed reading it.
In response to the question, "Are we grateful for our addiction?" I would have to say no. But, we do know from the scriptures that the atonement can turn our weaknesses into strengths. I am not thankful for my poor choices, but I HOPE for the blessing that my propensity for this error can be made into a strength.
I also understood something new yesterday at church. In priesthood, we were discussing the talk by Elder Bednar from the last conference titled, "Clean Hands and a Pure Heart." In this talk, Elder Bednar compares Clean Hands to repentance, and a Pure Heart to a complete change of who we are. Both clean hands and a pure heart arise from the atonement -- If we apply repentance until we are clean, and remain clean for a while (endure), our hearts will be purified by the holy ghost until we "cannot look upon sin except with abhorrance" (see Alma 13:12) this teaching from an Apostle of the Lord gives me Hope that I can be made better if I live worthy of the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. I encourage everyone here to read Elder Bednar's talk!
I'm glad to hear from another member of the church talking so openly about this problem. Welcome!
Take care,
SG
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Post by unescorted on Nov 26, 2007 12:31:22 GMT -5
HI,
I just wanted to post a quick message to anyone that is addicted and struggling - even the occasional relapse (like me) - I know what it is like to have your life and the lives of those dearest to you torn apart by this addiction that most of the world just laughs at, not realising what a "plague" it is, as Pres. Hinckley called it. I am sure many reading this may echo my thoughts.
I would like you to know that it is possible to break free. Repentance and the Atonement work! It takes time and effort but it does work. Have faith and hang in there!
I lost everything because of my addiction - quite extreme, but true - my wife, my family, my job, my home, my self-respect: all except the clothes on my back and the car I drove away from home in.
I went to the Bishop. I had not been to Church for 17 years, so it was not easy (I didn't even know where the chapel was - here in the UK, LDS churches are often few and far-between). I worked through everything with him and the Stake President - two very wonderful, patient and understanding men. And the Lord - the Best of All.
To cut a long story short, after just five years, I am remarried with more children, I have a new home and a job that I feel was tailor-made for me. I have friends and am trusted and admired. I was re-baptised and this year was able to go through the Temple for the first time and be sealed to my wife and children. My first calling after receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood (the Stake President ordained me) was Elders Quorum President - I think Someone was waiting for me to get my act together to do some good in this world again!
The temptation never goes away and one must constantly guard against it through Scripture study and prayer, lest a legion of devils come through and inhabit the house just swept clean (Luke 11:24-26) but one can remain free and retain the presence of the Spirit.
My experience has proven to me that all things are possible with God, that the Gospel is complete and that Jesus Christ is my personal saviour. I truly "Stand all amazed" because I thought I was the lowest form of pondlife. Now, I am like a lion, roaring through the trees. I know which state I prefer because life is a great deal brighter when one basks in the Light of Christ and it is all because I turned to Him and learned to follow Him again.
So, don't just think about it, do it! Get up with courage, face the day and shake off your shackles. It's wonderful out here! Not perfect, but pretty close!
This is my Testimony.
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