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Post by LookingUp on Apr 23, 2007 10:16:47 GMT -5
Wow! You're really doing a LOT of work on your recovery. Awesome! You ROCK.
Have you made consequences when those are walked over? Not trying to push you into doing that, just curious if you've considered that as a future step in your recovery. I know recovery happens in it's own time - when we're strong enough to take the next step... so don't feel guilty if you're not ready. It took me several years to get there - but when the time was right to make those boundarires, I had gained the inner strength to stand behind those boundaries and do the consequence.
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Post by victoria on Apr 23, 2007 10:46:36 GMT -5
Have you made consequences when those are walked over?
Hey LU, thanks for the input, thanks for dropping by!!
If it's important enough to me, I repeat myself two or three times, and tell him he hasn't acknowledged what I said yet.
If it's something that I can take care of myself, I work around him, and don't tell him.
So, I guess the answer is no, I haven't directly made boundaries with him. If it gets too tense, I leave for a while.
I really feel more empowered going to weave, and somehow, knowing that the power (Validation?) is in me now, even just a teeny bit, I feel better. A friend of mine in Al Anon that has lived with an AA for quite a long time, suggested I pick and choose the battles. So, I'm using that. The only thing I am adamant about is no p0rn. So far so good, as far as I know.
I can't control his recovery, I can control my reaction. So, I'm just going to weave and taking care of myself.
Thanks for asking and hope you are doing well, v
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Post by victoria on Apr 23, 2007 11:01:14 GMT -5
Doing my check in with my journal.
For some reason, the Virginia Tech tragedy has been on my mind quite a bit. I don't know anyone that attends or teaches, or even lives in Virginia. However, my thoughts are there. This morning on the Today show, when it was mentioned that they rung a bell 32 times for the victims, I thought about the gunman's family. What about them? Thank goodness I can pray for anyone!!
We all joke around that we could hurt someone, but when it is actually put into reality, I just get so grateful, and realize I have a choice in how I react to any given situation. No one deserves this, regardless of who they are.
Anyway, I made it through the weekend, yeah!!!!!! I get to go to weave tomorrow, and I'm glad. I feel so much better there when I talk. I only talked for about four minutes, and it was so healing not to be admonished, or advised, or whatever. They really do serve a purpose. And I feel wonderful about going.
It was disappointing talking with my parents this weekend, but I don't expect anyone to really be available right now on that end, they have so much going on, and the best thing for me to do is tell them I love them, and I'm available if they need me for anything. I can give back that way, at least.
I'm really proud of myself, though. I have really handled a few things differently this weekend, I said what I wanted and needed, and my world didn't fall apart when it wasn't acknowledged.
bye, v
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Post by victoria on Apr 26, 2007 11:35:21 GMT -5
Woke up pretty upset this morning.......
PA said a put down of me in front of our friends last night. I had decided to just detach from his behavior as he was being an a$$. I didn't react. So he got worse, started cussing and getting vulgar, usual stuff. He was trying to get a reaction out of his friends date and when it didn't work, he brought me into it.
We were talking about Scorsese getting the award this year and PA said "I've directed a lot of things, and I'm not a millionaire". So the new person asked him what he directed, and he replied "Victoria Come Home", and "Victoria Come Home 2" and we all laughed. I blew it off. Then I knew he was referring to the times we have separated, and I shot back, "Just remember, you produced those also. Then he said he was coming out with the third edition "Victoria Stay away for a While". The laughter was there, but it was tense, so I said "great, I have to pack again". We laughed a little, and then changed the subject.
Really mature, right? No matter how you cut it, we are both very angry with each other. I said not too long ago that I wouldn't go out in public with him anymore, and I guess I needed to hear/feel it again. He is a toad. Very selfish.
I tried to say this to him the other night, that I want so bad for him to get it, that he acts one way when we are in the couples meeting, and I forget that he will switch back when we aren't there. He says that is an expectation that he is never going to be good enough. I gave up, I just said that's how I feel, it's not a request. I'm responsible for my feelings, not him.
Oh well. At least when he pulled the "we gotta go do something tomorrow" thing on me last night, I said, "you didn't plan it ahead of time, so I made plans". Good for me!!!!!!!
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Post by victoria on Apr 27, 2007 9:55:38 GMT -5
This morning I feel good and better, and unsure of my feelings.
I started going to weave because there is a large portion of our relationship that is abusive. Verbal and emotional. I feel so much better there talking about myself than I ever did at that 12step meeting. I'm not reproached for my feelings, and I really relate with others.
I am lying to him about going there. I want to go more, but I hate lying. I don't feel safe telling him where I am going, so this is what I do. I have a right to get help, I don't exaggerate what is going on, I just didn't want to admit how unhealthy this situation is.
But, when I'm not judged, it's amazing how better I feel when I can express myself. I have not been able to put into words alot of what I feel, and it takes a long time for me to put things together. I have really made progress since I've started going. It's wonderful!!!!
I also put together last night that this is not the first time I have been shut down by others IE, that really isn't happening, what is your part in it, etc. I forget so easily what has happened in my past long ago, I thought I was through all of this, but maybe this time I can use it as a reference, instead of reliving it and shutting down.
v
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Post by victoria on Apr 27, 2007 14:29:03 GMT -5
I want to post here after reading a few of the SO threads.
I agree, I feel much better at weave than 12step meetings, and it is true what Km said. They do not ever talk about what is really going on in the relationship there. We always talk in such general terms, that my head feels like it's spinning after wards. How can I apply what I've listened if I don't exactly which situation I need to apply it to? I don't mean to sound sarcastic, it's one thing to say people need to be patient with an addict, but what about when the addict knows they are breaking agreements and they aren't honest with their sponsor?
No one knows the half of what he is doing, and I'm sure they know that he's not being completely honest with everyone at his group. They are addicts themselves, it's his problem to realize, not anyone else's.
I feel very clear about a few things right now, and I am angry. I don't appreciate his sponsor being a quasi-relationship counselor.
I feel that I'm empowered today, and it feels scary, because I don't put up with much when I feel clear and comfortable. Maybe I will go hang out with my sponsor this weekend. Who knows?
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Post by LookingUp on Apr 27, 2007 17:26:47 GMT -5
Glad you're feeling empowered. That's so awesome.
I've been blessed in my 12-step groups because we let it all hang out with each other. I've gone to some online 12-step meetings that were so watered-down that I didn't find it very helpful. I want to hear the particulars of their situation; how they responded: they did this, that and followed it by the other and it worked. Then I can see how I think that would work for me, adapt it, take some from this share and that share and figure out a plan for me. That's why this board has been so helpful to me - so much minute disclosure of what we've done that worked and what backfired and why.
Glad you're weaving. Quilting helped me a lot in the early months and years. Glad you have a place you feel safe and heard. That's awesome.
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Post by victoria on May 2, 2007 21:48:32 GMT -5
What to say?
Had plans for the weekend, but interestingly enough, the PA needed me to stay and help him get his car taken care of. That's the way it works, and I feel ashamed after-wards because I don't tell him to make other arrangements. He knew I had plans, and it's so upsetting, I don't even want to admit I fell for it again.
And then it happened again on Tuesday, he came home and needed me to help him. That is the day I go to weave. So, I get to go tomorrow evening again instead. But I feel so good after going. And I have such a hard time 'shrinking back down' to the role I play at home.
But I am scared of him and what he will do. I need to get a day when he isn't home for a long time to leave, and I don't think that is going to happen. So, I will take another perspective on getting the important stuff out of here.
And something else, I don't want to live with anyone long term. I need a place of my own for my soul and my sanity. No pets, children, roommates, bf's, friend staying with me, relatives, etc, etc. Thirty days to two weeks, tops.
I cant stand in my own sunlight until I stand in it.
I read a lot of the threads and I don't want to post anything. I get lost in the middle of a thought and I never get to my point, but I do understand how everyone feels and I am so grateful everyone has a place to post and get help.
So much pain behind addiction and denial. He has six months, but we watched COPS yesterday and it was an episode from Las Vegas. The girls were in tiny tiny bikinis and he didn't turn the channel, but he goes to meetings frequently. He laughs at news where people try to get somebody caught for drugs, prostitution, etc. He thinks Americas Most Wanted is an unfair show, but then he really is implementing new behavior in his own life. For instance, he asks me what my preferences are sometimes and that is new.
I believe that by the time he gets some real civility around him, he's probably going to be too late. He really had done a lot of damage to a lot of people, and people remember pain. They'll forgive sometimes, but they remember that they were used. Always.
For selfish reasons, I want him to be well. For his own sake, I want him to be well. For my sanity, I have to take care of myself and let him deal with things that he is responsible for. I've been replying to him when he is blaming me for something, "why don't you call your sponsor" or "I'm not responsible for that". And it hurts to talk so brutally to someone, but I can see that if I don't make a line somewhere, he'll walk all over me. It's not brutal, really. Sane people do it all the time.
That's how I know I need to empower my self esteem and let it go. I'm growing, it's just as fast as I can right now. Because it's very easy for me to turn this into a reason to react all over the place in unhealthy ways, and I'm not willing to give up any more dignity to a PA.
Bye, v
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Post by victoria on May 7, 2007 13:03:23 GMT -5
Talked with another friend about living with her. And yet again, I get advice on how ti live my life. I'm codependent, I'm in denial, blah blah blah. More than once, she suggested what the 'real' motive was underneath my statement of the moment. (Denial, irresponsible, etc.) and I had to remind her, these are just feelings, and I'm saying them, that's all. I haven't told her about the PA, and I'm glad I didn't. I know she means well.
And I'm glad I listened to my instincts to just wait a while and not make any rash decisions about moving out. It doesn't make any sense to get myself into another mess to get out of this one........
Went to the couples meeting Saturday night, and discovered that the R-rated movies and programs are suggested to not be watched, and he watches them all the time. Got angry about that and the fact that his sponsor was sitting there once again talking about his dislike for complete disclosure. Thank god for the amount of Al Anon I have had. I realized when it was my time to share that I can't go on sitting there at that meeting pretending that we are working on our relationship when we're not. And I'm going to say something about it.
Five times Saturday he mentioned how many girls go for the Paris Hilton look. These are girls, seventeen to early twenties. Then he turns around and tells me how beautiful I look after he gazes at them (leers). Pig. I don't believe a word he says, he's just mimicking what he thinks I want to hear, at least I feel that way.
He bought speakers for his computer and he's trying to set it up so he can watch movies...........why? well, we know why, don't we?
I'm glad I didn't take a lot of this personally as I usually do...............his addiction, his problem, right?
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Post by victoria on May 8, 2007 21:36:06 GMT -5
Went to weave again today and it was great. I thought it would be horrible when they mentioned the topic-you guessed it-"Trust & Intimacy". I started crying the minute she said those words. I can't believe I can cry so easily, but it's because I've been hurt. I have a real hard time accepting that people grieve when they get hurt. Especially me, I mean, I forgave myself for getting into this, now comes the part where I have to process everything.
I finally admitted he is a p0rn addict out loud. That was excellent. It's not my problem!!!!!!!! Today, I can accept that. I'm trying to write down the feelings I had 6 hours ago and I'm not completing the thoughts. They asked me what I am taking away from the session today and I said that it's OK to have my feelings, even if they don't make sense, and it's OK to take care of myself. I didn't realize how 'stopped up' I have been. Even though I write here, I guess 'I have miles to go before I sleep........'
peace,
v
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Post by victoria on May 20, 2007 14:00:00 GMT -5
What to write?
I haven't written in quite a while, been processing a lot and just feeling how things are with me, right now.
It's funny, but at the couples meeting last night, another partner brought up verbal abuse by her husband and I was dumbfounded!! I was also elated!! I was too scared to talk about it in our home, but it was nice to hear about it and feel validated.
When I went to weave last week, we talked about our truth, why are we where we're at, what is most important to me, right now? And we had to base it on the feeling we used to describe ourselves during check-in. I used the word 'small'.
I want to stay small right now because if I let my anger go, I'm afraid I will end up in jail, and that would solve absolutely nothing, and it would just be another version of me punishing me because I'm in pain. Useless and pointless action it would be.
Also at the meeting last night, the topic ended up being "What is my top priority?". I said my top priority was taking care of me, emotionally and not getting my esteem from caretaking my PA. I gave a few examples of how I did that this week. I felt good being more open and I felt closer to the other people. I still have a problem with appropriately getting too open, but I work hard on sharing in a general way. I believe these meetings are a place to learn, not a place to shame him, or take him emotional hostage, or feel self-pity and make everyone know what is 'really going on' in our house.
So, we leave to go home, and guess who has to make comments on me "taking care of myself". First, we're getting in the car, and he said to me "I didn't realize you were going to share that" (about us doing a 6th & 7th step to each other). Then when we get home, he walks by and says, "I was going to ask you if you know where the ----- is, by I'm learning that you're busy taking care of yourself". And he wasn't joking. I didn't react. We dropped it.
But here's the rub: when he says things like that, I feel shamed and I don't want to open up to anyone. That's the verbal & emotional abuse in my opinion. That's where I want to stay small, and yet at the same time, I want to force him to accept me as I am. Hence staying small, know what I mean? AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!
So, I guess it's time for me to make a boundary. If I'm going to go to these couples meetings with him, I want to say in front of everyone (because that way he won't bully me into silence like he does at home) he will have to accept on some level that he can't control the outcome of everything in this relationship. I have said I realize that his sobriety is not going to be exactly what I think is the picture of sobriety and recovery. He's going to have to do it his way, his time, and his perspective. I want to say for me at meeting level that's the same for me. Right now, I feel like getting honest and being open about my feelings. And they may not be pleasant for him to hear. That sounds fair and honest, to me.
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Post by victoria on May 22, 2007 22:21:57 GMT -5
I'm lonely. I'm really, really lonely.
Why do we get partners if they are so unavailable? It took me so long after the last relationship to get to a place where I felt comfortable in my own skin, that I know I'm looking at more inside work and that always takes a long time.
Oh, I could pick someone out now, but boy, what are the odds that I will meet someone that is healthy? I really don't even want someone now anyways.
It hit me today the trust that I honored this man with, and he took it and me for granted. He has no conscious thought of what he did.
And the thing that I'm learning now-he may be sober, and he may be in a program, but he is a mean spirited person, and God was the only one that could help me with my mean.
All the gas-lighting is there, all of the crazymaking selfsish, thoguhtless things he says and does are still there. He might tell me he loves me, but then he'll turn around and laugh at something I've cooked, or said, or did, and I know it's a lie. "Acting as if" isn't the real thing.
I feal I'm just a practice dummy for him.
Just to be held, and my hair stroked, and laughed with, not at.
I'm lonely.
I'm not alone, and I have a HP and I am getting more of a supportive circle around me, but I'm accepting of what I have.
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Post by victoria on Jun 15, 2007 12:58:42 GMT -5
The last few times I've been to WEAVE they have had a different schedule and setup of different people and it had thrown me off a little bit. I've also been discouraged by the fact that the new meds that the psych gave me are going to be very expensive. So, Im going back and forth about continuing them. I feel like I've been to the dealers and now comes the addict part. They are very effective, and now I have to pay thie fiddler.
Plus, a friend died and Im sad. I have cried a bit and I feel very meanspirited partly. It's going away. My PA was so indecent with the description about it, I was just so sad.
Then he started getting mad and I can't take it when he's angry with me because he can't handle his feelings. So, I try to tell him to stop it and he just yells at me until he's hoarse and then hangs up on me.
Then he comes homes, says he's sorry, and starts kissing me so I can't say anything.
Then today he comes homes and says that now he wants to go kayaking and he has the whole thing planned out. I've asked him for two years, now that his sponsor has suggested it, it's okay.
I'm so tired of the control, I just want to run away.
It's not that I want to die, but I feel that if you can't see me, I won't get hurt anymore. Please make me invisible.
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Post by victoria on Jun 18, 2007 12:55:09 GMT -5
Went to another funeral and more fallout of feelings. Does it ever stop?
The last person I spoke to about rooming with was there and I realized something-I attract people that want to fix or control. More so when I am in pain or fear. That's what it feels like right now.
She kept reading into whatever I was saying as something that needed to be confronted. We were at a funeral, for god's sake. I will miss the person that died, and so will a lot of other people, including the PA. It was very inappropriate. I wasn't even conforting the PA, I was standing with a girlfriend of mine.
It's a good thing I didn't move in with her. It's better I just wait. I feel. I'm so glad I don't have to explain myself here, I can just be whatever it is I am at the moment.
Thanks God!!!!!!!!
v
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Post by victoria on Jun 25, 2007 10:19:29 GMT -5
#1. He lied to me about our friends talking to him earlier in the year. He said that 'Jack" had told him his stepson died and that they would need some time alone, that he'd call back in a month or so. I sent them a card for condolences. That was six months ago and I miss them, but haven't said anything. This last week, PA decided to talk about that couple, and this time it was that 'Jill' the wife, was the one he spoke with and that he said some unkind remark to her about her son overdosing ("That's what we ((addicts)) do") and that she said would get back to us later. The stories change all the time................. #2. Sometimes, when he works, he is gone for longer than he says and I don't know where he is at, and I don't question it really at all anymore, just accept it. He has offering up explanations when I don't ask, so I thought that was a good thing, and that he was trusting me more. During this talk we had, he also mentioned that "Joe" hasn't ever called him back they way he used to. He admitted that the day he told me he was working on someone else's stuff, he had gone over to his house and did some projects over there, just to help him out. I didn't say anything, but the PA thought that surely Joe would call him now. #3. Two weeks ago, we were broke. Now he wants to buy a piece of sporting equipment. I told him that I wanted to just check it out, and that if he did buy it, I wanted to take safety lessons before we start in on it. He doesn't want to take them. And besides, how can we mysteriously afford it now?
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