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Post by victoria on Aug 24, 2006 11:11:42 GMT -5
I'm bouncing around a lot right now, so hope you can follow this: Went to the counselor and it was interesting. She is a sexual addiction therapist. I asked her what her program is for the partner's side of it, and she recommended s-anon. She also asked me why I was there, and what kind of help did I want from her? After all of this writing here, and reading, and coda and alanon meetings I've been to, I was speechless! I don't know why, but I was. It took me a few minutes to say anything. I wanted her help while I get the courage to leave, and after because he keeps trying. He doesn't hear that it is over. I know I want to be wanted, and I want to believe that he will keep a promise, but I know he won't, but I will want to believe anyway, that is the best way to describe it. There is a line in the AA book that reads: "This time it won't burn me and here's how". As if I have the power to make fire not hurt!!!! Then once again I'm reminded that I will have to leave the area so as not to want to run back, and that he tracks people down. He admits it himself. So I'm angry that I have to give up everything to have a life. I'm angry that I have arrived to a place in my life that I don't have to run from a problem, and now I have a problem that I need to stay FAR away from for my safety. As I write this I feel grateful that I have places to go, so I'm learning as I go along. And after the session and letting all of the conversation "bubble up" and process, this morning I realized the answer: I have some major decisions to make and I don't want to make them. But I do. I read the addicts side, and my enabling him is so unkind. And by staying and him not having to face himself, I am enabling him. If at the very least so I can get my sanity back, I need to leave. On a side note, one more time my PA has started another "project" and it's going to blow up all over our relationship. This has nothing to do with my decision, but it has everything to do with my decision. This crap never, ever stops with this man. Never is there a period of peace in our home, and guess what? it's yet another ploy to be back at the computer again If this had been a year ago, or six months ago, I would be having a tantrum. This time, I just walk by the computer room, and ask myself "what did I expect?" He is not accountable for his actions to anyone. He said he was going to start being accountable to me, I guess I'm not supposed to know the details. ;D. That's the gas-lighting again!!!! Anytime I get to start taking care of myself, he promises something positive, and the minute I start getting close, he does something to shanghai any closeness. Any friendship, and agreement. I need to forgive myself for falling for it again, but also notice that I am the one who is still standing here waiting............ I am trying to eat and sleep better, but this stuff eats me up. I am literally scared to try and go anywhere or do anything. I want to sound better, but today right now I don't feel any recovery in me. I always want to sound like I am doing something to keep myself in recovery when I post here, but today I am not. You guys are so great, thanks for the support
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Post by victoria on Aug 24, 2006 13:21:01 GMT -5
I'm back and I am so paralyzed. I can not get it together to leave. This is crazy. I think of everything I have to do, and it's overwhelming. This guy follows people around and he still is in contact with his ex wife. Still!! while he's living with me. I don't want him to follow me around, or hurt any of my family/friends, or get anyone else involved, and I can't prevent any of it from happening unless: A) I get far enough away that it wouldn't be practical for him to follow me. His ex lives 90 minutes away and he still went back and forth with her for a long time, Now its just calls and email. He brags and jokes about flattening his other ex wife's tires. Several times. B) I do the restraining order routine and it is so ineffective (you have to state where you are at for them to be able to stay away) C) I don't know!! D) Stay here, get my own place, have my friends and support system, (which is a lot smaller now) and ride it out. Who's going to want to go through that with me? Plus, I don't think I can handle it. We set each other off easily. I can take it a step at a time, but I have to consider how to address this medical problem at the same time. I guess it needs to be taken care of sooner than later.
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Post by victoria on Aug 25, 2006 10:12:00 GMT -5
Not a good conversation with my parents yesterday. There are no boundaries with them, they are frustrated that I haven't left yet. I don't want to do my life on their terms, and it looks like that's the way it will be if I go to their house.
I feel like my answer is being carved out for me. It doesn't seem so bad, just picking up and leaving. If I go anywhere, I'll have me, and at this point, not having my parents take over my life seems like a good idea.
I know they mean well, and I know they love me and don't want to see me hurt, but they don't realize they are picking up where my boyfriend leaves off. They are very controlling, and they have started deciding what's best for me.
I feel like I'm driving everyone away from me because I can't make a decision, and when I make a decision, it will be because I don't want to lose everyone and "disappoint them". I am so codependent.
I don't like me anymore, I don't like my life options anymore, I don't want to be homeless, and I have to make some kind of decision.
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Post by victoria on Aug 26, 2006 22:24:00 GMT -5
so, he gets a call this morning, and he he is talking to someone about whatever and I hear him say "really" he only says that for important things. He mentions to me that the meeting tonight is going downhill and it needs support. We have already agreed that we wouldn't go to those meetings anymore, he would go by himself. I asked him if he is intending for us to go to that meeting. He says dear, I don't know what I'm going to do tonight, I may just watch the game. I Let it go.
Later on in the day I hear from a friend that someone has relapsed. I don't ask who, but it's a female. My mind goes straight to the "girls" that he knows that flirt with him all the time. I let it go.
6pm rolls around and he asked me if I want to go to a mtg with him, I suggest one meeting and he says I don't want to go that far. I realize what is happening, I'm being gaslighted again. So I say which meeting did you have in mind? Small wonder, he picks the one that he eluded to that he wasn't interested in before. Supposedly the one that we agreed on that we wouldn'tt go to. I mention this and he says dear forget it, I don't want to get into an arguement about this, I said bye go to the meeting you want to go to.
So he comes back in my room 6-7 times to start a conversation and just pretend that nothing has happened between us. I keep letting it go. He even brought me a rose one time, and then I broke. I started crying and stopped real quick, because I don't want to give away my peace anymore. You know, forget the fact that he just tried one more time to pressure me into going against my belief so he can have his way. He just keeps wanting what he wants.
And the last time he came in before he left he asked me if I want anything from the store, and I said chocolate. After he left I realized that he bought me my addiction so he could feel less guilty, or because something, I don't know, but our "dance" that we do is just really sick, I feel.
If I stay with my program, he starts behaving well. If I start doing what he wants me to do, he justs starts walking all over me. But I don't want a son, I would like a man to be in a relationship with.
So, I will go to a meeting tomorrow and be good to myself. I am calling a friend tonight.
I want to write something else. Now that we really haven't yelled at each other in about two weeks, when a disagreemnt does come up, all I see is that me staying here is hurting us both. He wants to be with his friends, and his p*rn, and his exwife. I can't let go of that. He says he loves me, but he treats me like cr*p. How is that love?
Am I asking too much of him? Not in the least. If we were partners in a business, or neighbors, or friends, and he lied and cheated and abused as much as he has, it would be over. Just like that.
The other thing I don't like is this: I am beginning to feel that I will never forgive him and trust him. And staying here is just destroying us both. I feel like I get to "punish" him every chance I get, because I'm not being honest with him or myself. I hate writing this, and I hate feeling it. But if I supposedly have a program of honesty. HAHAHAHAHAH, what the hell am I doing?
take care,
v
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Post by victoria on Aug 27, 2006 12:26:44 GMT -5
well, more gaslighting after he caem home from the meeting. He talked to the woman that he told me he used to date before he dated me. And she wants me to call her for a job. Funny, I email her and she ignores me. WTF? I quit emailing her weeks ago due to no response. And she talks to him and now she wants me to call her? Then I found out this morning that 'everybody' from the club helped out one of the 'flirts' of his. During the time that he was supposedly gone doing a job. The job took three and a half hours. He told me it would take less than two hours and he didin't call me like he usually does. Then he makes me breakfast this morning and says he wants to spend the rest of the day with me. I have explained to him four times this week that if he would let me know what he is doing, I could make plans of my own. That is beneath him. Gaslighting anyone? It's so, so stupid. Now, I dont want ot be with him. I dont want to pretend that everything is ok. It's not ok!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by victoria on Sept 6, 2006 14:13:17 GMT -5
Today has been up and down. He sent an email to me, and it shows he is back in contact with his meeting girlfriends and it hurts. Gone six days, and he's back in the saddle.
I just read a lot of old posts, and it reminds me how mean and selfish he is. Made up for all of the pity I was feeling last night. I want to send him something hurtful and sarcastic, but I chose to write here about my feelings instead. More productive, really.
So, what do I feel? Anger, sadness, disappointment, anxiety.
Anger - that I have to do all of this work. That I have to pick up one more time and make a new life of the pieces scattered around like litter.
Sadness - the man he showed me in the beginning and the man he shows me when he wanted to be back together isn't really a person at all. It's a facade he creates like an actor playing a part.
Disappointment - That I can't fix it. That I have accepted that I can't fix it. That what I thought was love was really something that I chose to see, especially after he started revealing himself to me. That this sickness is hiding in meeting rooms, all he needs to do is find a woman with low self-esteem, and he's off again.
Anxiety - I don't know what the future holds, and I don't know which way things will turn out. He has already told me that he talks about his stuff at meeting level about our relationship.
I feel like never going back to my previous neighborhood. I don't want to face any of the fallout. I hate life right now.
My family is a blessing, but they have their own routine and I am not part of it. Am going with the flow, but it is difficult. I see myself in my family, and I see where those defects have hurt me and how I have hurt others. Another blessing in disguise?
I'm tired.
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Post by victoria on Sept 7, 2006 10:58:37 GMT -5
Well,
Spoke with a family member this morning and heard their side of an old incident. And I got a wakeup call. Ouch. Still some sore spots here and there.
I got scared and wanted to run. I don't feel safe right now anywhere. When I lived here before, this is how I felt then. 20 years later and nothing has changed.
But it did. I went into the bathroom and prayed and didn't engage when I came back out. I had done my amends for this topic months a go, but that doesn't mean that the other person is done processing their side of it. Another lesson. Thanks.
I looked at classes and I have to register right now if I want anything, so I will call and see what they have left. Then I looked at art classes and I think I will look more, like at bead shops and art shops. Because I was looking at the critical thinking class, I don't know, will check after I get off of here.
I talked with him yesterday, and he has started moving my stuff out of the house and into the shed. I may as well kiss my stuff goodbye. I would like my Grandma's nightstand and lamp, maybe I can email someone to take this off of his hands.
I am advised from the other PA's that I might want to accept the fact that he will probably become more triggering. This is something I fear, and I don't want to go there, but it looks like I will have to. I can block his emails, change my address, forward my mail, and just get on with my life. No half measures.
I'm dragging my feet, it seems, what it is is that the pain is paralyzing. The shock of what I have actually lived with is more than I can admit to myself. If everyone knew everything that went on, no one would believe it. It is DRAINING to put one foot in front of the other. Thank God for God.
So, I will do what I need and trudge, trudge, trudge.
v
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Post by victoria on Sept 9, 2006 22:51:49 GMT -5
I am realizing a lot of things I don't want to remember. I am severely codependent with my family. It is so painful to get here and remember this. I feel like I have traded my boyfriend for my family, same sickness, different neighborhood. I think I'm being shown that I don't need to stay here. My opinions, rights, and needs/wants have never been realized more than what the mood is for the day. And that is the same as my PA. Man, this hurts. what to do? Just start looking for a job and get ready to move back to my old neighborhood, or somewhere else. I have no privacy - I was just walked in on. Sound familiar? ?
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Post by victoria on Sept 10, 2006 13:59:14 GMT -5
well,
what is it about me that I am being shown all of this right now?
The lack of privacy, the scheduling of events that changes on a whim, the compulsion to have the last word, the recreating of history to accommodate a perspective of denial, the subject is all about a certain person, the codependency dance of everything around ---, Oh my God!!!!!
I realized last night that I have been on the move since childhood. From babysitter to babysitter, from relative to relative. It wasn't a shallow as I thought, I thought that I perpetuated a series of bad events during my teens when I grew up and made my own decisions, now I see that it was going on as an infant. That doesn't mean someone else is at fault for my decisions, I just didn't know how prevalent it was.
I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I feel that it's back to basics. I have to take care of myself, in a simple, humble manner.
There was a promise of 'being taken care of so I can heal'. I get here, and it's the same as being with my PA. Can't you go to work and wait for insurance? Are you sure that you don't qualify for government insurance? But then it changes to 'we want the best for you'. It's very confusing.
My feelings of not being important enough for medical care are back. This is how it was when I was growing up.
I can't believe I forgot all of this. I was told that things have changed. hahahahahahahaha. It's not different at all. But I'm different, hopefully.
I can 'rescue myself'. I can ask for Guidance and direction.
As far as the PA, I don't want to speak to him right now, he writes, he calls. I keep trying to find the 'right' words and a 'nice' way to say things, but it's because I am trying to control him. If I say things the 'right' way, I am trying to manipulate a response.
I can't do the recovery for him. I can't go to the counselor for him. I have explained that It takes from me to do his program for him, and he won't listen. And I don't want to explain anymore.
And now I feel like I have two people to answer to, because they are so alike. Neither of them respect my boundaries. I have been reminded that I have to honor my boundaries. Then when I do, 'they' are upset. Of course 'they' are. I'm not doing it 'their' way.
So, what is my bottom line with my family? God, I don't accept the intrusion on my privacy, my rights, my peace of mind. And they are seen as challenges to be broke. Conversations explaining boundaries with my family turn into personal affronts that I need to apologize for?!?!?!?!?! This has happened since time eternal. What the hell have I done?
This time it won't burn me and here's how..............God, I really need your help.
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Post by Freya on Sept 11, 2006 13:33:49 GMT -5
"ECHO ECHO ECHO"
this is basically - a rundown of what I had been through for so long - you journal so well V -
keep posting !
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Post by victoria on Sept 11, 2006 13:55:18 GMT -5
I'm going to write about the PA. I had one phone call with him and now he thinks we 'back in it'. He wants to say hi to my parents, and talk about when I'm coming back. He hasn't even gone once to counseling and I want to see results. And I know he's not going to go, and he's going to blame it on me. "Why should I go if you're not here?" I know that's what he's going to say.
I got two messages from him and two emails and I responded with the statement that I need to have a "God" day and take care of myself, and I didn't want to imply any promises to him. So, he calls my son to get my parent's address!! My son said that he doesn't give out personal information, but he'd call me and relay the message. I was ignoring messages.
My parents were going to have a friend drop by, so when the doorbell rang, I didn't expect that I would be getting flowers. I don't know how he got the address, unless he paid for a search on the internet. I didn't leave anything there that had their information on it. This is a definite sign that he is leaning toward stalking. It really disappoints me, because now I have to consider getting legal and I don't want to.
Flowers are an apology for him. He used to send them to me at work when we fought, and then other times it was for no apparent reason. Come to find out, it was when he was in contact with his ex wife, and when he lied to me about looking at p*rn.
He has already gone and told his side of the story to his friends, in detail. He has tried to get my parents and son involved, plus a couple of really close friends.
What blows my mind is that I do not want to believe that he is any different than what he has already shown me. I am seeing the same behavior in ------ that I see in him, and right now, between you and me, he looks better. How codependent and manipulative is that?
So, I go to CODA meetings and keep praying. I try to be kind, and be woman who needs to honor her boundaries and be helpful at the same time, and it's ok.
I have been told by some of the PA's that I should be expecting more 'triggering' behavior from my ex. So, I get to be a 'meanie' and assert my boundaries, and reclaim my life.
You know what, I don't dream about him. I miss how he would be after we fought and he was trying to get on my good side again. I don't miss the lies, the control, the put-downs, not sharing, sexism, his needs and wants more important than mine, blah blah blah.
He confessed that he was trying to start emails with his friend that sends him p*rn before I left last week. He confessed that 2 months ago when he brought up marriage again, that he knew if we were married, I would be stuck with him. What I heard was that he was trying to completely break me down. Isn't that sad? That's what this disease does.
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Post by Freya on Sept 11, 2006 14:52:30 GMT -5
OMG what a mess hey! Sorry to hear he is playing the game - like mine did for so long. Granted mine isn't playing any games right now - he was 'in recovery' in part and hasn't really changed since we split.. this time, no arguing, no begging, nothing... i wish it could be that way for you aswell instead of the mind games that are going on..
Manipulation is an important factor for addicts..
hey have a read of my thread called book review - guy has posted some interesting stuff there! Worth a read, really!
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Post by victoria on Sept 13, 2006 0:32:08 GMT -5
I have been speaking mostly with my sponsor, and that's why I haven't written in the last two days. I go back and read my own stuff, and you know what? it's very interesting to see where I've come from, and how short my memory is................yech!! I am going to speak with my sponsor tomorrow evening, and I will check back in with myself. Am pretty upset and hurt, don't want to admit it, but I am. Things have not turned out like we agreed to. I told my ex that I don't want emails or calls for a while. So, he calls family members to get the address where I am at, and sends me flowers. I don't respond, he emails three times. This is ridiculous. I know this was going to get messy, Will be back tomorrow. PS. You know what's stupid? I'm worried that he will show up, or that he's done something to hurt himself.
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Post by victoria on Sept 13, 2006 22:24:00 GMT -5
Talked with my sponsor tonight and it was good.
We agreed that this wasn't a failure to come to my family's house and stay. I saw that this wasn't going to be a good fit, and also notice that it helped me get away from my PA.
Not to be so hard on myself, and to recognize all the strides I have taken to make a healthy life for myself.
To see that love from family is wonderful, and that I can be my own person, and still love my family for what and who they are. They are wonderful people, I have just been away for long enough to know that I need to respect my wants and needs, and to respect their's, also.
I am so grateful for my life.....................
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Post by victoria on Sept 20, 2006 23:32:43 GMT -5
Started reading "Out of the Shadows" last night. Good good good good!!!!!
it explained a lot and I need to hear everything in there. I am supposed to be taking care of myself, and letting him have his time for his recovery. I am supposed to be leaving him alone, with encouragement. I am supposed to be not punishing him for his behavior.
I do alot of what this book says to do, and that is WHY he is acting even more persuasive.
Last night was kind of weird at the end of our conversation, we had talked for 45 minutes, and I explained that: a. I needed to not react to him, and b. let go of the fact that he will be uncomfortable when I tell him no, c. set a boundary. d. learn how to find my wants and needs e. let him be with his own situation f. that I can only go so far with him and his dilemmas, because I am not a counselor, and it would give me an opportunity to manipulate and shame him, if I took it too far. (Anger and hurt) g. that me being with him is not going to make the disease any better to deal with. h. That I am going to my meetings, and reading my books. i. That's what I feel safe with.
So, after explaining all that, he wants to know if I will meet him midway between homes. I was so frustrated!! he hasn't heard a word I said. He is no closer to honoring boundaries. Then I realized that wasn't a great idea to meet him alone, and I am oh, so, so, glad I am far enough away from him that it is a major inconvenience to even try.
Then, when I said I have to leave it there, and not give him an answer, he said that he had been tracing my outline on a picture that he had up on the computer, during our whole conversation. I felt really scummy. I felt scared. I don't think that this is going to be easy. I can't handle it. I feel like the TRO is probably going to have to happen, but god, I don't want it to.
I still think there is some magical way to get through to him, and I can't. I wonder if talking to his friends would help. I need to have some time to myself, and just relax and live my life. I can't have it no matter where I go.
god help me.
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