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Post by whoami on Aug 5, 2007 15:06:25 GMT -5
Rereading again, and just wanted to touch base about the smoking! More prayers being sent up here about that one, Mayberry. I'm a former smoker, but still have bouts of the addiction with the nico-gum, so I can't be real proud of myself. Chewed some again when I quit the job, going to stop it tomorrow! It's a tough one, but I know you can do it. Keep me posted on how the Chantix works?
Woohoo from me too that the training sessions are over! That has to be a major burden lifted, and since you got that over with, I excuse you for doing it on a Saturday lol
I will pray with you guys also, that your seller will be as cooperative as neccessary in the paying off of your home. And also about the triggers that may or may not come your way regarding it.
Good for you too, to resist the Mighty Mousing with Little Berry!! Can we believe the weekend is almost over???
My sweetcorn actually did make it, (my first try) but it's not all that tasty so I'm going to try freezing it. Then into the kiddie pool. We had a break yesterday, but here comes the hot and humid again, these are dog days!
Blessings and Hugs to you!
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 5, 2007 18:09:25 GMT -5
Thanks, Whoami. I got your PM, by the way. We are in the midst of an A/C mini-emergency, so I'll be scarce for a bit. I have a corn recipe I'll put up on the thread in a bit for you. Thanks for all the prayers, and I will let you know how my battle to end Demon Nicotene goes! All blessings to you (it's almost 100 degrees here and humid, blech!). J
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 6, 2007 5:42:01 GMT -5
From my post here, #40:
I have been giving this post (above) some space to "marry" (a word I use in cooking to describe how certain things one makes just need to sit for a while and let the flavors develop, and then go back and taste to see if it's good or not).
I can't find anything wrong with the "taste" of it, right now.
What is disclosure, as it relates to this process?
It is about the outer life:
1. Who has Mr. Mayberry acted out with, in person, via phone, via email? What connections from real life did he maintain or make anew since beginning to court me? For the old flame, with whom he had phone sex and email sex talk, what justifications did he give himself, how does he now view them, what hole was this filling? What validation was he needing or seeking?
2. Who are those women stashed away in his old e-mail history from after we began our courtship, and what led to the flirty, confidential tone? What connection was he seeking with them, and how did he justify this "reaching out", even if it stopped short of sexual connection or talk? Was he just "hedging his bets" in case things didn't work out with me? What about his responses to other women on the local site where we met? How many of them did he talk to, think about meeting, arrange to meet, actually meet? Again, why? What connection was he seeking? What validation was he needing or seeking?
3. What other materials exist (CDs, disks, etc.) that have fed his PA? If such materials exist, why do they still exist after the last d-day?
It is about the inner life:
1. What role has masturbation served in his sexuality with me? Why? Why does he need to masturbate to continue sexual relations with me? I have never encountered this phenomenon in my past sexual relations and I truly don't understand it. It has always left me with the feeling of being completely inadequate to meeting his sexuality. I suppose if the majority of one's sexual experience has been with oneself, a point might be reached where only the self is a "satisfying lover." Is that what's going on? I really refuse to believe that I am such a lousy lover, or so vastly unattractive, that the experience of bedding me is not a turn-on (or, worse yet, is a turn off). I have THOUGHT these thoughts, but--at their core--I do not believe them. What's going on in his mind when he masturbates/self-stimulates when we were in bed together? Leading to...
2. What role has fantasy served in his sexuality with me? Why? I have read in several journals on the SA/PA side about men using fantasy to "finish" with their partners. This is mind-boggling to me, and has opened up a huge door that I dread walking through. I can't imagine wanting to continue to have sex with someone if I "needed" other images to "get off." I can't imagine the impact on my partner if he knew I was using the sex with him to fuel of my inner fantasies of making love with someone else. (edit: I am NOT doing this, by the way) Or maybe I can imagine the impact, which is why I don't do so.
3. What impact does his addiction have inside as he walks around in the world? Looking at other women? Looking at magazines, at "non-porn" pictures/sites on the internet? Looking at billboards? What happens inside when he sees "stuff"--is it a trigger? How does he feel? What has he done about it? What is he doing about it?
Unfortunately, I think there may be more questions that I'm not "smart enough" to ask.
I am very tired. HAH! What an understatement. We both slept well Thursday night, and Friday and Saturday and Sunday nights have been very poor. I wake up looking like I've been in a wind tunnel--hair standing on end in every direction. I wake up feeling like I've been on a tear, muscular exhaustion, iron taste in the mouth, heavy-lidded. I can't imagine how Mr. Mayberry is feeling, particularly when he comes home, sleep-deprived, from a day at work with no air-conditioning, doing manual labor, in this sweltering heat and humidity. OUR sleeplessness, ill-sleep, what have you, is directly tied to his sleeplessness, ill-sleep, what have you (I sleep like a cat in sunshine when he sleeps well). I am at a loss as to what to do about this. I want to sleep with him; I want him to sleep with me. I know he knows that when he doesn't sleep well, I don't sleep well. I know that makes him feel like crap...knowing his sleeplessness, despite his "courtesies" of holding still, etc., leads to a bad night for me. I very much believe that lack of sleep impacts mental state during the day (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired?) and I mourn for him. He has resisted most of my prompts inquiring about what he might do to ease his condition. The answer, for him, seems to be "nothing." He's "always been" like this. I beg to differ...there was a period during our courtship when he slept quite well. An aberration, in his world view? I don't know. But I do know that
PEOPLE GOTS TO SLEEP!
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Post by LookingUp on Aug 6, 2007 12:11:08 GMT -5
Today, we sat and paid the bills TOGETHER. Today, we talked about a few things that were important to us vis-a-vis money. That is an awesome update. Sounds like sobriety is making a difference in your marriage already! Congratulations. I also find it freeing to watch things get checked off of my to-do list! Since I'm retired, I seldom make a to-do list - maybe that's an option! Great update. Now that the weekend is over - do you still feel positive about that choice? Good for you! Last time I lost my temper, I threw two corelle bowls into the downstairs bathroom - hard. When they hit the ceramic tile, they splintered. Then Mr. LU wouldn't let me clean it up (cleaning is very theraputic for getting the anger out) - because he knew I was mad at him for his slip, his refusal to discuss it, etc. The guilt I felt was overwhelming - for him cleaning it up. In almost 9 years of being married to Mr. LU, that's the only time I threw things... a coping strategy learned from my mother who was a thrower, door-banger, noisey while refusing to talk anger person. When my kids were little, I occasionally threw a little fry pan that would bend. When my oldest was about 4, he comes running into the kitchen yelling "mommy, mommy, I'm mad at Tommy - where's the pan so I can be mad." I'd forget kids learn what they see; so I quit throwing when they were around.... and usually worked through stressful anger by the time they were napping or gone. Is that a bad thing? Good thing? ((((((((((((((( mayberry )))))))))))))))) Glad you recognize where you are - but glad you're aware of what to do about it. Good for you for sticking with your boundaries. I found "trigger my own anxiety" a very terrific insight! hip, hip, hooray! Glad that is happening! Good for you for ditching what wasn't helping you. Sounds like you had a LOT going on last week! Yay! LookingUp
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Post by whoami on Aug 6, 2007 16:56:06 GMT -5
Hi Mayberry, I want this disclosure business over for you too. Very much so. I had it dribble/drabbled out about 6 months. Doesn't have to be that way for you. And I don't resent Mr Who for it, but it was a tough period of time in which I thought I might start to heal only to get hit again. Don't want this for you, and am praying on it.
You have read Carnes' Out of the Shadows, right? I'm thinking of the main book my H's SA group uses, and how it addresses some of our questions in a generic kind of way. I'm going to get back to you about this book. But I know you need your questions answered by your H, not just generically. We need God to help him do that (and Godspeed)
Did you get the issues with your a/c straightened out, I hope? It is like a sauna out there today, no, I mean a steambath. You're not having to sleep without air, are you?
I am cringing/wincing about the lack of sleep for both of you. Do you think someback ground noise might help? Like those "white" nature noises, like ocean waves or wind in trees, etc....our fan has this setting that sounds like wind blowing which I find helpful when I'm having trouble sleeping. I don't know, just hope this can get better soon. You are right, we gots to sleep. {{{{{{{{Mayberry}}}}}}}}
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 6, 2007 17:17:05 GMT -5
Thanks, kiddo! We did get the AC issue sorted out; it was the small AC in the room in which we sleep (the rest of the house has cenral air). It provides a fair amount of white noise in and of itself...I appreciate the good thoughts.
I ordered from Amazon this morning the "Out of the Shadows" book (the public library just had "In the Shadows) and I also ordered "Facing the Shadow". I appreciate your suggestion/reminder.
It's rough around here today. Cambodian temperatures and climate conditions, Mr. Mayberry facing down his past, stressors at both of our jobs, especially for Mr. Mayberry, sleep-deprivation. Extra good thoughts/prayers etc. MUCH appreciated, and I know they are winging our way even now.
All good things to you and yours... J
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 6, 2007 17:23:06 GMT -5
No, it was a bad thing that I made everyone uncomfortable. It was childish, ridiculous, out of balance. I'm not saying it didn't serve a purpose for ME, but I mourned that it made Mrs. NextDoor and Mr. Mayberry and Little Berry cringe. YUCK.
I have a red-head's temper: flare and gone. It's one of my few good points that I learned pretty early (after getting over the extreme silencing of my youth) to deal with my temper. I had a few years where I was a thrower (always in private) and a breaker (always in private), but I got over that and now it's just a trembling, hard, tense feeling that FEELS like it would be relieved by smashing something but, as I know too well, would only occasion a mess for me to clean up. I'm past the need for smashing.
Thank you for your other supportive comments. I have read your journal entry, and am going to let it sit for a bit, I think. I especially appreciate you sharing this...it's given me a lot of food for thought. Quakers are sometimes referred to the as the "Sufis" of Christianity (an emphasis on the mystical, or the direct communication of the Divine to the individual), and I have a fair amount of room for the prophetic aspects that you wrote about.
All good things your way tonight, and every night. And remind me to tell you how mail for Canada nearly went to Bulgaria today. GRRRR.
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 7, 2007 6:10:13 GMT -5
Spent a good amount of time reading in JohnG's journal. Am stealing two things to post here for later grokking.
Patterns and Characteristics of Codependence
These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self-evaluation. They may be particularly helpful to newcomers.
Denial Patterns:
I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling. I minimize, alter or deny how I truly feel. I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.
Low Self Esteem Patterns:
I have difficulty making decisions. I judge everything I think, say or do harshly, as never "good enough." I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts. I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires. I value others' approval of my thinking, feelings and behavior over my own. I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.
Compliance Patterns:
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger. I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same. I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long. I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own. I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want. I accept sex when I want love.
Control Patterns:
I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves. I attempt to convince others of what they "should" think and how they "truly" feel. I become resentful when others will not let me help them. I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked. I lavish gifts and favors on those I care about. I use sex to gain approval and acceptance. I have to be "needed" in order to have a relationship with others.
From John G's journal; edited from something he found on another thread; the original thread was about things that SA's have in common.
1. I have lots of unfinished projects 2. I am slow to collaborate around the house 3. I Leave things for the last minute 4. I become defensive when criticisized and either sulk or gaslight 5. I become obsessed with hobbies/projects/games/almost anything 6. I love to create the impression that I am very introspective and into self-improvement 7. I always want it my way - I want to pick the movie/restaurant/vacation destination 8. I often sigh when my SO suggests an activity (or did before she showed me the door) 9. I treated my SO like a roomate - she told me this herself and in retrospect I see it clearly. 10. I often demeaned my SO and tried to make her feel stupid 11. I love the sound of my own voice and can lecture ad nauseum on pointless subjects 12. When lecturing, my SO must listen carefully or I stop and look at her with annoyance 13. I am emotionally "absent" - like some kind of puppet imitating a real human being (poorly) 14. At other times I am highly emotional - showing great soulfulness at unexpected moments 15. I lie a lot 16. I dig up the past in disputes (gaslighting) 17. I say with absolute conviction that my SO said things that she actually didn't say (gaslighting) 18. When I have done wrong and there is simply no denying it I apologize and am impatient to be forgiven 19. I am passive-agressive 20. The phrase "assuming responsibility" might as well be written "áðïäÝ÷ïìáé áîéïðéóôßá" for all I understand it 21. I am selfish 22. I am self-centered 23. I have a huge ego 24. I have a fragile ego 25. When I was out to conquer my SO I showed amazing insight into the female psyche - now I show astounding ignorance
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Post by Brad7 on Aug 7, 2007 6:39:18 GMT -5
Mayberry
You above list lots of patterns and general things which are wrong in your life. It has got me thinking about my life.
In fact my list would be very similar, but I really think that you can only really attend to one thing at a time. At the minute I have finacial, worries, work problems, relationship problems (because I have no relationship) and lots and lots of things like that, but really, when I think about them all I really have to be careful about priorities. At the minute, it is financial worries which are the worse problems and as a result that is where I need to put my attention. I also need to know when to turn my attentions to other problems, when perhaps I have sorted out my financial problems.
Maybe just at this minute, like me, need a list of only one item. It involves less writing.
Best wishes
brad
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 7, 2007 7:24:39 GMT -5
Um, thanks for the post Brad, and a full thank you for being concerned that these were "my lists" for myself. Actually, these are NOT my lists, but stolen from someone else's journal. I wanted to think about some of the things on the first list and, possibly, share the second list at some point with Mr. Mayberry, and I didn't want the hard work of finding the lists again in JohnG's journal. I further modified the post that confused you...there was some language in there that could EASILY be taken for "my own". I'm sorry for the confusion. I truly appreciate your sharing, your care and your concern.
And I agree...for myself, I need to "eat elephants one bite at a time!" All the best to you! J
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 7, 2007 7:41:57 GMT -5
I have found myself smiling at some of the firmness with which some folks proclaim their atheism or agnosticism. While I have limited use for M. Scott Peck, I find a lot of truth in what he has to say about atheism being a stage of spiritual development and, often, a far more honest and seeking stage than what Peck calls "stage two" (basically summarized as "I have the answers and you don't."). For myself, I find I often have far more in common with and understanding of folks who proclaim their lack of faith (while showing exceptional spiritual seeking and growth) than with some of those Peck would put in "Stage two". For my own future thinking and reference (and the reference of others who might be interested in this topic), here's a nice summary of the stages of spiritual growth, as explored/defined by Peck: www.factnet.org/Stages_Of_Spiritual_Growth.html
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 7, 2007 7:57:01 GMT -5
4 Apr, 2007, 1:05pm, DennisW wrote: Terance Gorski-working in the field of substance abuse, has writen about this. These recovery stages can be applied to p-addiction as well. the stages are - pre-treatment=from using uncontrolled, to trying to control, to trying to seek help
- stabalization-detoxification-getting the substances out, getting brain chemical back in balance
- early recovery-daily reminding self "I can't use" "If I use, I might die."
- middle recovery-dealing with the trauma-social, job, legal, financial, childhood issues, etc.
- maitainence-long term recovery, as Ernie Larson calls it "Learning to Love"
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Post by hopeflows on Aug 7, 2007 13:09:54 GMT -5
Hi Mayberry. I hope your day is going well. I read many of the pa's journals as well. There are a lot of insights in their words.
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Post by Mayberry on Aug 7, 2007 16:21:37 GMT -5
I have set a quit smoking date of next Tuesday, 14 August. I am beginning Chantix tonight in an effort to confound the receptors in my brain. Please hold me in your prayers. I am ready to stop. I am going to stop. When I wake up next Tuesday morning, I am NOT going to light another cigarette.
Reminder to self: NOT smoking will not kill me. I may be cranky, irritable, elated, sleepless, nauseated, happy, proud, weird-ed out, smug, euphoric, miserable, insane, much saner...but NOT smoking will NOT kill me.
I emailed the above to two friends and my husband. My husband, God bless him, turned to the dog and gently drawled, "Remember, NOT smoking is NOT going to kill momma. You may get a few slippers up the a$$, but NOT smoking is not going to kill her. Or you. Heck. I may get a few slippers up the a$$."
It is at times like this that I am staggered by my husband's good humor and by how much I love him. Really.
Hmmm. Is this the time to point out that I generally go barefoot in summer? Or am a pacifist (a fierce pacifist, but a pacifist nevertheless)? Nah. I should probably wait until Wednesday next to make any such pronouncements.
I tell you, being an SO on this board has contributed greatly to my desire to quit. Something about looking at the fall-out of other people's addictions every day has made me CRINGE every time I light up and look at my sweet husband's face...the man who quit "cold turkey" long, long ago.
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Post by whoami on Aug 7, 2007 19:59:56 GMT -5
Hey Mayberry....Been looking over the patterns and characteristics of Co-d, the first 2 under Denial, just scream - that's me! that's me!
The last Denial behavior tho, I just guffaw at. And by going down the list, I can see lots of changes in me in regards to these feelings and behaviors, it makes me feel like God has helped me a ton, and maybe I'm capable of doing some things right, too! Thanks for posting the list!
I don't know how your Chantix will work, exactly but I hope you'll share how. I wish you the BEST in shedding smoking, have you tried before, or any success for any amount of time? I think you know I've been off and on with the gum, and on again lately....so I'm using your "note to self" about how this is not going to kill momma, (or me!) The dog here is looking at both of us doubtfully, in the last few days. It's hard on the dogs. Ya have to yell a bit. What I'm going thru is not quite as tough as actually quitting the smokes, but it's bad enough. I have sympathy pains for you, but I know you can do it.
Hugs, and I'll be in the prayers and psalms for both of you sleeping tonight!
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