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Post by whoami on Jul 19, 2007 20:05:30 GMT -5
Oh God, oh God, oh God.
I just read about myself here. Mayberry I am SO sorry I triggered you.
Words just get so in the way of my communication. I am SO sorry I triggered people by my thread.
My H is 4 years clean this coming November....and I trust in his sobriety as much as is possible for a 30 year gaslighted SO....
I stuggle. I'm struggling.
I worded the initial post in a very stupid way, so I guess that's why so many got triggered. I am so sorry.
I am feeling like I shouldn't be here at all, anymore. And I'm feeling like a fool.
I am almost 4 years into this thing, and maybe relaxing myself out of my mind. The visit with old BF was just for fun. And it WAS fun. And my H knows that now, and would like to meet with him next time.
I am a fool for posting that, when I should have known BETTER , that it would trigger people.
In the first year after disclosure, I wanted to get revenge and just pick up anyone in a bar to have sex. But years later, I just want to have a friend. I really botched it, and I'm sorry. Hugs to you Mrs Mayberry and I AM sorry
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 20, 2007 5:22:47 GMT -5
Wow, Whoami. Um....if you were my friend (and we're all friends in this, I think), I would say, "Hang on, you're overreacting." I was actually very GRATEFUL for your thread. It gave me a push toward looking at some of MY unhealthy reactions and MUCH ENCOURAGEMENT to deal with my feelings of "ugliness" right now in HEALTHY ways. (Versus longing to go pick up old flames, or absolute strangers, to "validate" my desirability!)
I really meant what I said here: "So when I read this morning about an SO who was taking pleasure in visits from a former flame, and I read about her good feelings about herself, I imagined myself in that situation and I imagined how VERY GOOD INDEED it would feel to spend an hour or two with someone who treated me with a mix of admiration and courtliness and the subtext or undercurrent of "Here's someone who once desired me and he desires my company still" and I really FELT for this woman on the boards. And I feel no condemnation for her. Depending on the context in my own life, I can see how I would have met the old flame, had a great time, enjoyed feeling GOOD about myself, come back to my marriage stronger and happier and with more internal strength to deal with what is--let's face it--a rather trying situation that tends to leave the SO feeling, well, rather depressed!"
If I were communicating with you directly, I would have said (more directly): "Wow, I'm so happy for you that you are healthy enough to hang out with an old flame, take what you needed from the situation in a healthy way, include your husband and offer to include him further. That is sounds so good."
And your thread certainly "urged" me toward wanting to examine all ways in which I can find good, healthy validation in my own life right now. Unfortunately, I think I have exactly NO old flames with whom it would be healthy for me to hang around (if my high school sweetheart rematerialized in my life right now, he'd probably be okay, and there might be a fellow or two who I thought about taking more seriously, but knew we'd be awful together....). But YOU have a different situation.
I'm sorry if anything I wrote made you feel like a fool, or less than, or uncomfortable. I was very uncomfortable with some of reactions you were getting on your thread, and that also informed my decision to stay out of your thread. I don't think you are a fool, and I didn't see anything unhealthy in what you expressed. Rather, I saw a lot of good health in exploring your motives and getting feedback and taking what YOU needed from that feedback and living your life in a way that made you feel stronger and better.
All from the heart, Jinn
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 20, 2007 6:11:35 GMT -5
Okay, so I'm going to start with a feeling state: I feel really pretty darned clueless as to how to start a Recovery Plan and pretty darned clueless as to what it is that I NEED to work on in my life to be healthy in this. Or that's what I've been telling myself. Upon examination, I think it's a load of procrastinating malarky: the way to START is to START, and the way to KNOW what I need to work on is to START exploring. And that little quiz I did the other day on this journal pointed out PLENTY of areas of weakness. SOOOOOOO...... I'm going to start this morning by listing action steps and I'm going to use that as a tool on a frequent basis to add to/explore/revise.
Jinn's Little Bitty Recovery Plan 1. I am going to open the blinds in this house when it's daylight. I'm not going to stand around, p*ssed off, because the blinds by Mr. Mayberry's computer are closed and it makes me think of all the time he's wed himself to his computer. I'm going to be healthy about this: closed blinds bother me. Lack of light depresses me. Closed blinds remind me of Mr. Mayberry's shut down mother who lives paralyzed in her little box with no friends and little light and a lot of stuff that she's bought that doesn't fill the hole in her soul. Which makes me think about Mr. Mayberry. So I'm going to open the blinds in this house when it's daylight. 2. I am going to spend time in prayer FIRST thing in the morning and LAST thing at night. No matter what. I can't afford to hijack my own day by starting on the computer, or in conversation with Mr. Mayberry, or anything else. I need the centering and the connection to the Divine that prayer brings. I may pray during the day too (I tend to), but I need to START AND FINISH my day with prayer. 3. I am going to find loving ways of expressing myself to Mr. Mayberry: I will not sink into silence because I fear that what I think or feel will wound Mr. Mayberry. I give myself the right to explore what I'm thinking or feeling first here on the boards, or in this journal, or with a friend to make sure that what I'm thinking or feeling is worth sharing, or to find a good and honest way to express myself without wounding. But I am NOT going to shut down and shut up. I'm not going to be complicit through silence; I am not going pretend there isn't a problem in Mr. Mayberry's life; I am not going to pretend there isn't a problem in OUR life; I am not going to pretend that Mr. Mayberry's addictions don't have fall-out for how I feel. I will be loving, I will be supportive, I will not be silent because my silence in this area (and others) would be a LIE, and lies are relationship (and spirit) killers, I think. 4. I will NOT play the hero. Period. I will be helpful, I will be available, I will be the "guide on the side" vs. the "sage on the stage" (thank you LookingUp!). But I cannot and will not try to rescue anybody from anything because I can't, and to try to do so will only deepen my ill-health in this (and other) matters. I will NOT play the hero. I am not a hero. I'm good and brave and smart and good at planning and doing, but I am not a hero, and to act as if I am is a LIE, and lies are relationship (and spirit) killers. This particular lie DIRECTLY WOUNDS other people in my life by making it more difficult for them to address their own needs and, in dealing with their own problems and struggles, find the strength and wisdom that they need. This particular LIE wounds me, as it creates DEPENDENCY between me and other people in my life, and discourages equal partnership between me and other people in my life. Other people are my FELLOW TRAVELERS, not my dependents. I will NOT play the hero. (This is going to be SO HARD for me.) Playing the hero gives me an artificial high, a "ooooh, I feel so GOOD about me; look how smart and capable I am". But the high wears off, to be replaced by frustration and anger, "why won't (fill in the blank) do this for him or herself?", and self-pity, "why do I always have to fix these things?", and false pride, "I'm better than you are. I can fix this and you can't." And that's a REVOLTING dynamic. I will encourage those around me to their own health, and I will be healthy in this myself. (This is going to be SO HARD for me.) 5. I will focus on BALANCE in MY LIFE as a TOP PRIORITY. I will make lists, and I will do things on those lists. Things for myself. Things to connect with others. Things for my work. Things for our home. I am prone to depression. I found a tool to change my behavior and rescue myself from depression. That tool is LISTING and DOING. I am also aware that PHYSICALLY CHALLENGING TASKS and WALKING are tools to rescue myself from and keep myself from relapsing into depression. I will DO and WALK. I will make sure I am using the TOOLS that bring balance and keep balance in my life. Depression is my enemy. 6. I will explore, as it is in BALANCE with my life, my ill-health in relationship to Mr. Mayberry and also in general, and I will add to this action plan as I learn more about myself. By strengthing my understanding of myself, by adding to and living this action plan, I will be happier with myself, I will be stronger, I will have the spiritual and emotional and physical life that I was created to have. Not that I "deserve." The life that is a life well-lived. I will not fritter my life away. It's MY life, and it's ENTIRELY up to ME to live it fully. That's ALL on me. And I have a connection to the Divine, and I have friends, and I have this board, and I have tools I have learned in the past, and I have new tools available that I can learn about and try out, and I have Mr. Mayberry too.
Okay. There's a start. I'm beating myself up a bit still because I could add more. And I am forgiving myself because I WILL add more (goes and looks at #6 again.) I need to tend to the BALANCE of my day, and that BALANCE includes time doing for the house and for others. So this is a GOOD start and a START in BALANCE with my life.
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 20, 2007 7:08:54 GMT -5
Dear one, dear husband:
I got out of the shower this morning and used your towel. I wanted to remind you of some of the things I love about you.
I love how you smell. You are the most delicious-smelling human on the planet. Your towel and your side of the bed smell much better than my side of the bed. You smell good to me.
I love how capable you are. Your ability to fix things and make things just really bowls me over. I love the floor that you put down in the bathroom. It's so pretty. You did such a good job. You did it for me, too, which makes it even prettier. Thank you for bringing your capable hands into our home, and for putting them to such good use.
I love how you are interested in so many things. Your interest in learning, your ability to translate what you've read into doing and making. You are so smart and I also love how you have never made me feel less-than-smart, never been prideful or superior about your incredible intelligence.
There's a lot more that I love about you. But here are three things, completely, utterly, entirely, sincerely, overwhelmingly meant.
And since I think this is my phrase for the day....
HOLD FAST.
I love you.
Now that I've written this, I know I need to email this too.
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Post by whoami on Jul 20, 2007 11:42:13 GMT -5
Thanks so much Mayberry for helping me. You are one beautiful lady. And what you just wrote to Mr. Mayberry is just awesome, and inspiring! xox
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 20, 2007 13:37:46 GMT -5
Thank you, Whoami, for the clarity and insight into myself that your bravery in expressing your thought processes prompted in me. I am blessed to find good folks and good support here, and it's pleasant to know that I can return the favor now & again. Jinn
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Post by rosiemj on Jul 20, 2007 14:00:00 GMT -5
Hi Jinn, I love how you call your H Mr. Mayberry Wow Wow Wow is all I can say. It is a wonderful and uplifting recovery plan and has helped me greatly Thank you so much. You are a great inspiration. Keep up the great work. God bless you and LOL Rosie
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 20, 2007 14:39:42 GMT -5
That's very kind of you, Rosie. Thank you. And there's something in me right now that needs to refer to him as Mr. Mayberry. I'm not sure I can explain it, but it's something about putting my needs in this forward as important. I'm Mayberry, and he's Mr. Mayberry. I don't think I explained that well, so I'll leave it there.
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 21, 2007 5:43:55 GMT -5
I followed my little goals this morning, small rituals of new health. Got up, opened the blinds to the rising sun, went to the back porch and prayed (found my mind very distracted this morning and ended focused on this Taize song: In the Lord I'll be ever thankful, in the Lord I will rejoice! Look to God, do not be afraid. Lift up your voices, the Lord is near; lift up your voices, the Lord is near. The words, "Look to God, do no be afraid" formed a space where I could center and be with the Divine this morning. I am not going to work on my recovery plan this morning (adding to it, I mean, here on the forum). Instead, I am going to work on one of the areas in it: to use the tools at my disposal to deepen my own health. A to-do list for the day is temptingly underway on the desk, and I am going to turn my attention to getting many of things on it turned from "to-do" to "to-done"!
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 21, 2007 8:17:41 GMT -5
I am really proud of myself right now. 1. I have done the ironing 2. Two loads of laundry (not on the line yet, but they will be as soon as the sun takes the dew off the laundry out there) 3. Made two pitchers of iced tea 4. Done last night's dishes 5. Washed some blueberries so we can eat them 6. Taken the trash out 7. Spent a healthy (for me) amount of time here, reading and writing 8. Spent some of my "zen" ironing time thinking about what sort of an accountability circle would suit my needs, and then writing to two other women here for their input 9. Mr. Mayberry asked me if I would read his first post here before he posted and I found myself saying that I didn't like looking through his computer, and that FOR TODAY, I needed to encourage him to post what he needs to post, to embark on his OWN journey and that I thought, for myself, I'd rather not read what he has to say. 10. I saw that Mr. Mayberry has STARTED a journal here, and I was THRILLED, but I did not READ what he has to say. I do see that he has no responses (and, as I want him to find support here, I start worrying about "why don't you open a thread on the discussion sections rather than the journal sections so that you can more quickly engage with others & find some support", but I have not (and don't think I will) said anything about that to him because this is HIS journey, not mine.). I do hope for him that folks reach out to him, as they have to me. But it seems a healthy hope, and not a controlling reaction to his positive step here on the forum. Yep, I'm so happy with myself at the moment I could SKIP!
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Post by LookingUp on Jul 21, 2007 16:12:33 GMT -5
Wow! Sounds like you're having a terrific day.
Glad Mr. Mayberry is starting a journal. There is a lot of healing in the journals.
LookingUp
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 22, 2007 7:07:02 GMT -5
I came into the shared office this morning to the delightful sight of BLINDS UP. Wow. Spent the hour alone in bed this morning before I got up in prayer and quiet reflection. It's another gorgeous day here, almost fall-like in the temperature, lack of humidity (rare for late July) and clear blue sky.
Yesterday after my last "update", we loaded up and went in search of a specific present for Mr. Mayberry's birthday. I was under the impression and, perhaps, the wrong impression, that Mr. Mayberry had been doing some pretty serious looking in this area, and it was going to be a matter of going to a specific store and getting the specific gift. OOOH boy. I was wrong! Here's where I have to confess a few things: I am weird. I have not been inside a shopping mall for well over 15 years. I do not own a TV, and haven't for over or about 15 years. I am not much of a consumer, and I have some very panicky reactions to large groups of people surrounded by vast amounts of (terribly expensive) stuff for sale. (I have some panicky reactions to large groups of people in general, as well. I also have some feelings of gross disgust with large amounts of stuff, and many people's large needs to fill their lives with stuff, etc. Is this where I confess that I am Quaker? Probably! I also have strong reactions for what passes for customer service, and get angry about the lack of it easily (internally and sometimes, through terseness, externally).) But I had braced myself for entering a store where I normally wouldn't set foot, and I did so in great good spirits, because I really, really wanted Mr. Mayberry to have this present for his birthday, and it is a significant enough present to warrant his active involvement in the choosing. We came, evaluated the choices and Mr. Mayberry suggested going to a store (next door) to price-compare. That seemed reasonable. We did that. At store #2, nothing he saw suited his desires. Now, in retrospect, this is the point where I, as one of the two gift-givers and the only gift-giving adult, should've suggested we come home and find out what was wanted, and call around and find out where that was. I did not do that. Instead, I suggested we travel across town to store #3. They had nothing; it was their sister store (across town some more) that I had been thinking of. Instead, we stopped en route at store #4 (a larger version of #2). No dice. Nothing that appealed to Mr. Mayberry perfectly. The child was thirsty, I was confused and angry and my senses were overwhelmed (four huge "stuff" places in the space of one trip. EEEEK!). I suggested we go home and we did. On the way, I asked Mr. Mayberry to tell me more about why it seemed, at store #1, we'd found some perfectly acceptable items in the right price range, and we went to store #2 only to price check, and (it seemed) suddenly nothing was acceptable and we were off and running. You know, I'm still VERY unclear (from my ponderings and his answers both) why what happened happened. We came home, regrouped, looked at some items on line. Mr. Mayberry apologized for his behavior. I accepted the apology, though it frustrated me that I didn't understand his dynamic. We went back to store #1 and bought the very item I would've bought the first time around. My remaining frustration turned to amusement. Some more anger (but this time at the bozo clerks and helpers and customer service people and it was righteous reaction, trust me). I am left wondering, though, about the "grass is greener" dynamic I believe I saw play out in Mr. Mayberry yesterday. I am also left wondering why I did not do the healthier thing for me, and go to the store #1 with the child and buy the item in the first place!
We went for a late evening canoe ride (our first here) to an island in the River Mayberry. We packed sandwiches and fruit and water and had fun exploring the island. Mr. Mayberry and I left two stones behind on the island as symbol of giving this burden over to God and moving forward together. That was nice. We came back burdened with stones and feathers and fishing weights and other treasures we'd found on the island. The child was in a very (for her) whiny and "I can't" place, which peeved Mr. Mayberry. Mr. Mayberry ACTUALLY EXPRESSED his frustration with the child to me. I felt like I'd been given $100 and I was happy for him. When we went to bed, I wanted to make love with Mr. Mayberry, but tiredness won out. It was, for all its twists, a very good day for me. Much of the "to-do" turned to "done". Things felt balanced, and more real, and more communicative, than they have in a long time. WE felt more like a WE to me today.
[trigger]This morning, Mr. Mayberry was aroused by the sight of my leg. He immediately moved away and started thinking some of his "distracting" or "blocking" thoughts. I laughed and told him that I think one of the goals here is for him to retrain his brain to be aroused by me, to be with me. I could be wrong about this. But I think I am ready to try to re-engage a bit on the physical level with Mr. Mayberry.[/trigger]
It's time to get ready for church. We missed last week (the child was ill) and that has cast a small, disconnected feeling across my week this week.
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Post by whoami on Jul 22, 2007 12:06:09 GMT -5
Wow, does your H sound like mine, with all the price comparing!! Why do they do that?! It used to drive me just crazy, felt like such a waste of time....
I've seen progress and changes in my H in all kinds of ways...he knows all this running around trying to find that greener grass bugs me to pieces, so in thinking about it, I guess he does that less now, when I am present. I'm sure he does it on his own time tho. (He has a job where he drives a lot, so he can do that. It doesn't drive him crazy so he's welcome to it...on his own time LOL)
I hope the child is all better. And I know that disconnected feeling, I had it yesterday when my praise and petitons were pretty much on the run. Today is going better!
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Post by LookingUp on Jul 22, 2007 13:44:15 GMT -5
I wrote a nice reply and lost it - must have hit the wrong button! In it, I said at one time I think I was a shop-aholic. After living 40 years in small towns of 1000 or less (except for 2 years when I was college age), it was quite a unique experience to move to Tulsa, Oklahoma, where there was such a diversity of items and prices.
I compare shopaholism to PA. From what I've read, it seems some PAs will spend hours looking for just the right photo before they mb - eventually they give up on finding the perfect look and just make the orgasm. I think that happened to me in shpoping. I'd spend hours looking for just the right thing - go from shop to shop, enjoy the adreneline high I got from the frenzy of the crowds and bright lights and displays, then when it was time to crash from my high - I would just grab something and buy it... whether it was the best price, fit most of the requirements, etc. I'm certainly NOT saying Mr. Mayberry is a shopaholic or getting an adreneline rush from shopping; but in hindsight, that's how I can best explain what happened to me. Some of how we shop could be learned experience - how his mother or previous partners shopped that way and he hadn't considered more efficient ways or if that worked for this stage of his life.
You seem to know a lot about the Quakers. I've always been interested in Quakers, Shakers, Mennonnites, and Amish - not interested enough to research it, but very curious and figure I could learn a lot from their lifestyle. Being raised in Kansas, I knew a few Mennonnites - only they were ones who had left their faith for more liberal denominations. I'll keep my eyes open to see if you post more about the "Friends".
I have been delivered from shopping. Mr. LookinUp and I get groceries together and every year or so he'll take me clothes shopping - he instigates it as it's not something that crosses my mind unless I have to attend an adult child's wedding and we need new fancy clothes. I enjoy fabric shopping because I make his shirts, cargo pants and many of my clothes. When we moved we went furniture shopping. After a couple mistakes (thought prices were good but were high for this area) - we started shopping online for prices and actually bought some furniture online. We pay bills online, buy gifts for others online and have them shipped or send money. I much prefer the peace and quiet of shopping from home then from enduring the frenzy of store shopping now.
I seldom watch television or read a newspaper. I belive the newspaper's main worth is as a prayer list for intercessors. Maybe I was born in the wrong century?
I agree, customer service is an oxymoron!
I love the story about your step-child. I remember the first time Mr. LookingUp trusted me enough to express frustration and disappointment with something his adult child was doing - we'd been married 5 years by that time. I knew he was trusting me with something special and he was willing to be vulnerable enough to tell me. It was extra special because historically if he said anything about his kids - it would start a fight because we parented so differently. I was very legalistic and he was very permissive. All the kids turned out okay though. So when he opened enough to make a comment (that at one time I would have used to shame him for his liberal parenting) I realized I had been doing enough "good" to help erase the "bad" that I'd done previously. Maybe that is an example I can use to explain to Mr. LookingUp about regaining trust. Anyway, that was the first time I felt like he accepted me as a member of our blended family and didn't just view me as an unwelcome appendage to "their" nuclear family. I felt like I was promoted from "maid" to "wife."
LookingUp
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Post by Mayberry on Jul 23, 2007 5:01:48 GMT -5
LookingUp: I think you hit my nail RIGHT on the head with that. Yep, WILLING and VULNERABLE. Not to mention DISCLOSING. What a great moment!
Whoami: Yes, the child is feeling better, thank you for asking!
Yesterday was a decent day. It didn't have the "edge" of excitement that Saturday held for me, the sense that I was just really buckling down and getting my life in order, but, in the quiet of the morning today, Sunday felt like a good, solid day. Church was good, and the homily spoke directly to my heart, as did the Psalm that my small group "studied" before worship service. Mr. Mayberry and the little Berry (the child, I've got to call her something!) tackled the garage together, which was a gift, indeed! (Before Mr. Mayberry moved here, the garage was almost as orderly as the house. Not clean, mind you, nor perfect, but orderly. One could park a car in there. Ah, memories!) I tackled the house cleaning, and it felt so LOVELY to come downstairs this morning to a fairly clean house, with no wads of pet hair floating through. Mr. Mayberry asked one of our older friends (she's 87) to watch Little Berry today, and has found a sitter for Tuesday and Wednesday, and I'm grateful and proud of him that he stepped up to meet this need in our lives. I felt honestly tired, not drained, when I went to bed last night, and I woke rested and ready for today. I had good communication with a couple of women here on the boards through PM, and felt bolstered by that, and surrounded by good companions, both here and in "real life." No trauma, no real "break-through moments", just a gentle day of church and housework and reflection and prayer and connection with Mr. Mayberry and Little Berry.
My main goal today is to work in the outside world (my job) with care, focus and attention. It's going to be a bit of an "overload" week for me at work, and the only way I can be "good" with my work this week is to buckle down, make the lists of what is to be done, and work my way through them. Off with me.
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