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Post by unbreakable on Dec 14, 2007 20:21:35 GMT -5
Better.
I did eat, I did buy cigarettes and smoke a few, but I've already given them away. I cried a little and frankly felt completely out of it. Like I'd hit my head or something.
I should have drunk some water, you're right. I got home and washed up and cleaned my kitchen and then I got lucky; My friend called and took me round to see my goddaughter, whom I played with while her mum had a break and I forgot all about being sad. I stayed there for a while, argued good naturedly with my friend about movies and now I'm home.
And I'm ok.
I was tired, probably, and still hungover probably, and probably dehydrated (my psoriasis flaring up implies as much), but I made it out on the other side quicker than I used to. I'm going to watch a little TV, go to bed and read and sleep, long.
Maybe writing did help.
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Post by Mayberry on Dec 15, 2007 7:00:27 GMT -5
Random thought: Would it help to either use the "good day/bad day" mantra out loud when you're in the shadowland of emotion or have a specific mantra to say out loud when these hard times hit? ("I'm feeling (x) right now, and I am willing to feel good about myself again. I will make it through to the other side.")
Whatever the case, I'm glad to read you're okay. Still walking nearby, and looking forward to your updates. J
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jackson
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Post by jackson on Dec 17, 2007 16:20:58 GMT -5
you pulled through!!!! you did it!!!
i thought alot about you over the last few days....thougth about your partying because before i read that post i have to admit unbreakable i had an impression that your life was somewhat 'dumbed down' that you read books, went to bed early and kept yourslf pretty much on a low profile. so when you talked of partying hard that got my interest and changed my perception. its so wrong how we judge people.
anyway i think most of my friends and i run a tightrope when it comes to partying... we love it, the fun, sillyness, the pure out of headness of it all, it can't be beaten...but then comes that dreaded come down, terrible tuesdays as we call it....my come downs are dreadful...i go to some pretty dark places when it seems no one or anything can reach me......
but i remember the first time i took X. WOW it changed me forever. would i go back and change that now? i dont think so. they say what doesn't break you makes you stronger unbreakable. and in a funny kind of way i think porn addiction has humbled me, made me more compassionate and less judgemental. thanks again for putting your life out here. Bring on Tomorrow!!!!
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jackson
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Posts: 31
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Post by jackson on Dec 17, 2007 16:31:24 GMT -5
oh and yes. i would like to here more about how you experience your depression.....but as i just wrote that i thought 'who wants to hear about depression?' why would i ask you to talk about your depression. its like im asking you to BE depressed. isnt depression everyhwere we look. surely its better to hear about joy and strength, and courage? my friend steve said that maybe the reason people don't tend to talk about 'come downs' is because to talk about it is to give it a reality. and 'come downs' are not real...and so the debate goes on....
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Post by unbreakable on Dec 18, 2007 6:50:53 GMT -5
Hi
Day Sixty Four
And I really think I'm somehow 'graduating' here. I'm inclined to keep that down thought. I worry about complacency ... and in other areas I am still prone to complacency, but the porn demon, well him I have been able to silence as of late. I want that 100 day mark A LOT. I hope I dont want it so much that 101 is meaningless though, I think as I get close to that landmark I need to prepare myself for how I move on from there.
I've been considering masturbation a little recently I think. I want to work out 'when it can be healthy'. What goes on in a healthy mind during masturbation. Is it something I could ever go back to or would it lead me back down a path I've sworn off. Do I want it back? Or is that urge the dying voice of a bigger problem?
Something to think about.
Jackson,
interesting, I always wondered if I came off as a recluse on here and a bit of a 'boy scout'. It's far from the truth, I had a lot of wild days in my past and I'll have a lot to come Im sure, I'm not too old yet I hope. I have to admit though, I see that a lot of my 'intake' is responsible for some of my worst mood swings and I see the same 'intake' (whether it be alcohol, nicotine or 'other') responsible for massively lowering my ability to drown out the voice. I wonder if that's simply a pattern I can break, or if its always going to feel like walking a tightrope when I'm hungover or 'coming down'. I don't know. And I don't like to mess around with it really, I certainly try not to when I'm already weak, depressed or vulnerable.
I'm going to try to lay my experience of depression out for you very briefly to give you an idea. My father is a medicated manic depressive (bipolar). He presents (without medication) through prolonged period of bleakness and very intense emotions. My experience is very similar. I've avoided any medical assistance over it and subsequently any medication. Whether this is the best choice or not, I'm not sure. Frankly I'm not sure I'm clinically depressed, but I fit the description of what my father presents like a glove. I go through periods of mania, where the world is literally brighter, music seems layered in new ways and I can and enjoy taking life as it comes. Every situation brings me a new wonder and a deeper appreciation of my place in the world and within my own microcosm. I feel safe in my life and in my head. This can last days, weeks, sometimes longer uninterrupted. The feeling becomes less intense in time, but I usually stay above a certain line (the line, if you like within the cup that seperates half empty from half full.
My experience of the other side of my personality tends to follow; I'll awake and feel it straight away. Physically my eyelids are heavy and often I'm already crying from some nightmare. Everything is weighing down on me and I suspect my physical posture drops notably. Music fills me with fear of what I lack, and reminds me of what I've lost. I hear all the hopeless and lost lyrics and none of the joy reaches me. I'll often find myself crying on the bus to work, over some terrible omnipresent failing in my personality (or often my sanity). I'm unrelentingly mean to myself throughout this time and I hammer myself with a bullying that the worst of the people that hounded me at school couldn't have managed on their best days. I'm a reject and a failure, and ugly and stupid and lonely and on and on ... my dialogue in this mindframe is so noticeable; Everything sucks, usually because of me. My language is stunted and bleak, my ability to concentrate on anything minimal and I'm convinced that I make the worst company imaginable.
My instinct is to isolate, usually under some misapprehension that I am sparing the people that know me, truthfully because the urge to wallow in my self pity is my natural animal instinct. THAT's the bit I have to fight. I can't help myself from having these downturns in my mood. No one can expect to be happy 24 hours a day, every day (and I get some real moments of lucidity that balance this stuff out as well), and IF I do have some kind of chemical difficiency which causes this I can hardly hold myself accountable.
What I do know is this ... certain things put me back on track quicker. They don't stop me being depressed, but they can help 'treat' that mood when it arrives. These are things like, being productive at work, spending time surround by people, exercising, reading, tidying up (cleaning my kitchen particularly - although i should leave the minute I've done that to move onto another job), seeing my goddaughter etc.
I also know, the urge is to do other things. Most of these other things are likely to make me feel worse in the long run and the right decision for my health is to NOT engage that urge ... porn is in there, so are drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, overeating, abusing the internet, procrastinating at work ... etc.
Eeek, I've written a lot more than I intended, feel free to ask if there's anything specific you want to know Jackson.
Mayberry, saying the mantra out loud ... hmm, I'm going to try that.
For now, I'm well, looking forward to the christmas period, my holiday (still not booked - but I get my innocculations on Thursday) and at the moment ... life beyond that and all that it can throw at me.
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Post by unbreakable on Dec 19, 2007 7:19:39 GMT -5
Day Sixty Five
Another disturbing sexual dream has ruined the start of my day. I don't want to go into details, because frankly I'm so ashamed that these thoughts even play in my subconscious, they have certainly never existed in me as conscious fantasies and I HATE that they play to me in any form.
They really speak of a (expletive)ed up attitude towards sex. Whilst consciously I would never do any of these things, that they exist in my head in some form makes me feel lower than low. I can't help thinking they wouldn't be there without some of the time I'd spent watching porn.
God, on days like this I don't know if I'll ever have sex again. Or whether that's a bad thing (ADDICT SAYS YES, YES, THAT'S A BAD THING. ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU PROMISED IN EXCHANGE FOR COLD TURKEY!?!).
I used to be a gentle and kind lover. I was very good to my partners in that respect. I fear that I'm not capable of that anymore having been confronted so vigorously with the (expletive)ed up side of me.
The optimist/ realist in me is laughing at that ridiculous pessimism, but he has his fingers crossed at the same time.
I'm still not worth anything to anyone really. I'm a mediocre friend, not a great brother, not a great son and history tells of a crappy partner, no matter how I remember it. Yeah, I'm trying hard to make myself a better person and I'm proud of 65 days, but really, it's not the answer to all my problems. I knew it wouldn't be. I don't know ... sorry, I guess I'm dumping today.
I don't even want to talk of it as a 'dark day'. Reading yesterdays post makes me feel sick. I'm just whiny and justifying it with this talk of depression. I just need to get over myself.
This holiday I was planning. I started to have thoughts of bottling out of it today and you know why? The worst reason ... I don't want to be the fat guy on the beach and I figure that's what I'll be. Wow, way to label yourself. I've thought about finally 'breaking out' and going on this holiday for so long, but I had fantasies that I would have lost all the weight I always wanted to lose before then and I could be ... well, somebody else, I guess.
Not depressed. Just ... *shrugs* I have nothing.
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Post by Mayberry on Dec 19, 2007 8:31:40 GMT -5
Yes, friend, an impressive list of labels. I have to join in the chorus of "Wow, way to label yourself!" It's a struggle, isn't it, to accept ourselves as we are without veering into "I'm worthless" self-denigration or "I'm going to be my fantasy-self!" Both extremes seem, to me, to be far from useful. I like you, and I am tempted to say, yet again, that I think (from what you're writing) that you still are engaged in the death-rattle battle. Please, friend, "dump" what you need to dump, feel what you need to feel, but please don't fall into the pit. You are NOT these labels, of that I have NO doubt. NONE. I did not find your post yesterday to be whiny in the least, BTW. Manic-depression is strongly genetic. I have a good bit of second-hand experience with it; living among and loving a family with strong manic-depression. Whether you "are" or "aren't", I found in your post from yesterday an understanding, however intuitively, that behavioral changes greatly influence mood. I have known several folks with BP to live happy lives without meds. May I share some of what I have learned that you may already know? 1. Self-medication with drugs or alcohol is very dangerous to folks with manic-depression, but it is often a constant temptation and carries to the extreme easily. When I say dangerous, I mean that it invites mood fluctuation which is, of course, already a "problem". Moderation in this area is often very helpful for folks with mood lability. 2. Eating and good relation to food is important. I know you've been working on this in your own life. Some folks with manic-depression go through eating-habits that reflect their moods. When "up", they don't eat or they actively fast or purge. When "down", they begin eating (often lots of starches and sweets). I don't have manic-depression, but I do have some mood lability, and I find that keeping myself to an intentionally scheduled meal plan with lots of balance (fruits, veg, grains, meat or meat-like stuff) does a heck of a lot for my inner balance. DUH! 3. Schedules help. A small list of action steps for the day really does help. 4. Exercise helps. I was really pleased about your swimming (are you still doing that?). A walk around the block can be exercise-enough to reset some chemical stuff inside, often. Okay, so I figure you DO know all that stuff, right? Okay! Whatcha going to do for your health and balance today? Walking nearby....J
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Post by unbreakable on Dec 19, 2007 9:01:24 GMT -5
I do know all that, that's like my list actually ...
But I don't always fight it as hard. Probably BECAUSE I know it will stop me sinking and part of me wants to wallow and be as depressed as possible. I guess because it's my comfort zone.
I know the substance thing, I really do, the three years of my life I spent completely sober of alcohol, cigarettes and marijuana (my three drugs of choice) my mindset improved vastly. I remember looking back at the sometimes tearful wreck I had been in the years leading up to quitting everything and laughed at the very clear realisation that 'yep, that was the drugs'.
Sadly, it was that period that my porn problems really started and I had no idea at the time that essentially I was just self medicating.
The food thing too, I do notice the difference when I eat in a balanced way, but I don't fight for it. I should I know I should, I guess I don't feel like I have much worth fighting for (I can't put that kind of value on my own health sadly).
Schedules did help actually, but I'm too scatty to do them often. They help in my work life too. God I really need to make a committment to do some of this stuff and just DO it.
"There is no try. Only do."
Exercise too, I haven't been in a week or so and I can tell. I feel sluggish and I'm more inclined to look critically at my weight.
Sigh. I just don't want to always hate myself like this.
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Post by Mayberry on Dec 19, 2007 9:27:45 GMT -5
Yep. I knew you knew it; I'd seen it in your lists. I hope you will forgive me for restating the obvious. Are you, by any chance, getting caught in a loop of negativity, fueled by the death-rattle battle? I mean, after all, if the death-rattle voice is playing you, it's going to attack your areas of historic self-doubt: I'm moody, I'm fat, I'm worthless, I'm self-pitying, I'm alone, I'm (x, y, z). Death-rattle is one evil baztard, IMO. I watched this play out big time with my husband. The areas of self-doubt will remain on some level, but I know, for my husband, it was his damned addiction screaming for attention by pointing out his worthlessness (hah!) that nearly did him in. ANYWAY, I *get* (I really do) that you don't "want" to do any of these things right now. Whether it's "too hard", "too much serious work", "too boring", "makes me too monk-like"...whatever. Believe me, I *do* get it. I struggle with this myself, which is part of what draws me to you and to your journal. There is an notion of 'happiness' or 'health' called eudaimonia. "Eudaimonia is a state variously translated as "happiness" or "human flourishing". The latter translation is more accurate; eudaimonia is not a subjective, but an objective, state. It characterizes the well-lived life, irrespective of the emotional state of the person experiencing it." I mention this because (returning to the "no good days, no bad days, just days where I can do what needs to be done" theme), you already know the "habits" of a life that will help you be in balance, healthier, happier. From a point of depression, they can appear not only "not worth it" but "futile." But that is, I believe, depression's self-serving lie. Did you get the part: irrespective of the emotional state? We all have knowledge, I think, of the HABITS and PRACTICES that will lead to our better health, our happiness, our flourishing. I know you do. And I sincerely believe you are nearing a place where you don't hate yourself. If it would help, humor me (blame me?) and, irrespective of your emotional state, do what you know will be helpful. Or, as you said, DO IT. Just do it. I do not believe you would intentionally choose, for any reason, to live a life of misery. I do not believe that about you. Sure, wallowing has its own unique charms (or it does for me), but I'm telling you, friend, that "human flourishing" is far more interesting once it takes hold. I feel like I'm dangerously near lecturing, so I'm shutting up now. I'm holding you in thought today. Whether you're wallowing or walking, I'm glad to know you. J
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Post by unbreakable on Dec 19, 2007 9:46:45 GMT -5
Don't ever fear lecturing me. I'm listening.
Thank you. I DO understand what you're getting at when you talk about 'irrespective of emotional condition', that's a really interesting thought, not to let my emotions rule my life.
I guess I've never thought like that before, that I can do the right thing irrespective of how I feel. Well that's what that quote I liked is all about isn't it? And I did get that, I thought, but maybe I dont really.
I maybe obsess over 'mental well being' to the point where I completely ignore the possibility of my 'physical well being' being equally important. Yes, I think I believe that. My mental state matters to me, my physical state less so.
Mayberry, you should feel free to say anything, I'm open to any advice, suggestions, lecturing or anything else anyone has to offer.
Thank you for your kind words, I heard them.
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Post by Mayberry on Dec 19, 2007 10:08:14 GMT -5
You're kind. There's really no separating the two: mental/physical, in my book. They literally (biochemically) flow into each other as seemlessly as a Mobius strip. However, it seems a proven thing that physical changes will always produce changes in mental atmosphere, so, when the mental state is unwilling, carrying through with physical changes is a practice of "virtue" worth pursuing because it will, inexorably, produce the changes to the mind-state. JohnG had some interesting reflections on the practice of virtue leading to eudaimonia. This is from his journal: "Aristotle said that we acquire virtues by practicing the conduct that characterizes them. In other words, the mind-state follows the conduct and not the other way around. I believe this to be true. It is first necessary to know what behaviour characterizes the person I want to be. Then I must practice that behaviour and refrain from the one it is replacing. I must do this with the guidance and support of others. And I must be honest with myself and others because all guidance and efforts are meaningless if they are based on fictions and not truth." It's my personal belief that, especially when struggling with depression, learned helplessness, self-hatred and other emotions of 'that class', changed (healthier) mind-state will follow changed practice in physical conduct. Practice the conduct; the mind-state will follow. Allow the negative mind-state to dictate the conduct, the virtue will not be attained. I looked at your recognition about wanting to isolate away from others, and some of the "misapprehension" you recognise there. I applaud your self-work in this area of being with others: you have apprehension about being around others, doubting your "social appeal", you do it anyway (putting into action, through socializing, a virtue: being in society), you, you draw closer to actually "having" the virtue of being in society through, well, being in society. There is another Greek term that might be useful when thinking about these things. I believe it captures some of the "don't want to" we experience in depression. "weakness of will {Gk. akrasia [akrásia]} Inability to carry out an action in accordance with reason or virtue." I'm gonna run...but I repeat: dust off the list, walk through the list, "do" the list, even though you don't "feel" the list. Because you WILL, through daily practice, I believe, achieve eudaimonia. I believe in you. J
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jackson
New Member
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Posts: 31
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Post by jackson on Dec 19, 2007 19:10:50 GMT -5
i believe in you too.
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Post by unbreakable on Dec 20, 2007 6:55:32 GMT -5
Another day, another number to be proud of
Day Sixty Six
You know what, I KNOW I'm going to get to 100. I got to 83 I think the last time I got this high and that's the highest I ever got. I don't know what went wrong that time ... I think it was about a year ago. I wonder if that's when I started sleeping with Liz? I experienced a lot of rejection feelings in that 'relationship', I'd probably blame the slip on that, although she was a vocal voice telling me that I was WRONG to try to abstain the way I was from porn and masturbation.
I haven't really had any relationships this year, which has probably made abstaining easier. Does that make it less of an accomplishment. Why would I even say that, am I still looking to undermine myself to feed the addict (who more and more feels like the negative part of my persona - not to be confused with depression, which I don't see as negativity exactly).
Procrastination levels are high right now, which isn't good, but it's not exactly terrible either (Hmm leniency, wow). Exercise is a bust at the moment, I played squash with my boss the other day, but nothing else in a week. I haven't drunk in a while which I quite like, I'll be looking to avoid it tonight too. Feelings of self worth, not high, but not low either, so, well I guess I'm ok right now. It's nice to be ok, not hyper excited, not broken hearted, just ok.
I get my shots for my trip tonight. I don't think I like injections, I'm supposed to be seeing a girl later too. It's not a date, that's been made very clear, I knew she wasn't interested actually, but she told me she was back with her ex, does make me wonder why she called and asked to see me, but whatever. I guess there's a simple answer, it's always nice to spend time with someone that you know likes you, I flatter her and boost her confidence/ ego. I don't mind that. I'm short of friends and I like her company and I'm ok with us not dating.
OK, back to those targets to renew myself a little for the final third of my hundred
1. Laundry, put a load on 2. Tidy Kitchen 3. Christmas Cards (?) 4. One more early night 5. To treat E as a friend and not make what could be a fun situation into an uncomfortable one for either of us
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Post by Mayberry on Dec 20, 2007 14:50:55 GMT -5
Friend: It sure was nice seeing your targets back today! Thank you too for stopping by my journal today. It felt right and good, and I appreciate your care & concern very much. J
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Post by unbreakable on Dec 21, 2007 5:46:13 GMT -5
Thank you, that's reassuring. I don't usually just post in peoples journals, I would normally have cleared it with you first, but I wanted to show you some support. I hope everything is ok now?
Day Sixty Seven I didn't meet my targets, I got distracted by life, that's acceptable so targets are carried over.
I had a really good evening. Left work early to get my shots, not so bad, then went to meet Emma. We drank, but not to excess and once again I was disarmed by quite how comfortable I am around her. I get the same feeling from her as well. I think I might well have made a new good friend, which is fine by me, I need more friends. We talked and talked and talked and I never felt like I was 'emotionally stripping' or burying her in my insecurities, actually I spent a lot of time listening to her tell me about her own (which are so similar to my own, we almost concluded that 'everyone might feel like this').
After a while we headed into Rusholme (which is an muslim area across a 2 mile stretch of the main road near where I grew up) to watch the Eid celebrations. We went to a cafe drank a few cups of coffee and watched the festivites.At around 2am we met Emmas boyfriend Brett and went our seperate ways.
It was a good night. I didn't ruin it.
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