maart
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by maart on Oct 12, 2007 14:02:10 GMT -5
thanks ferdberfil.
Absolutely right. One can only solve a problem when one knows what the problem is. Going to therapy is such a big step. I don't believe I have hit "rock bottom" for such measures. But perhaps it would be a good thing to do it early on so I can avoid going rock bottom.
After my last post, I thought "well, I already screwed up today, so I might as well watch P". And I did. Just writing this down and reading it is crazy. Why would I think that? Drawing a firm line should be my first step, thank you for pointing this out.
And what is group counseling like? Like you see in the movies? A group sitting in a circle, telling their stories, guided by a therapist?
What scares me a bit about recovering is this: On this board a read a lot of stories like "I have been recovering for a couple of years, I slip every once in a while, everyday is a new battle". That sounds very tough guys. Has anyone on this board been totally recovered? Not thinking about P, not being tempted anymore?
and ferdberfil, thanks for your kinds words on the netherlands. However the tolerance level here has been declining for the last couple of years. Since 9/11, xenophobism and intolerancy towards muslims has increased alarmingly in Holland. Even in Amsterdam, the wonderful city I live in, once one of the gay capitals in the world, this has been going on. 10 years ago, a newsreport on gays being beat up for nu reason (well, for being gay) was most shocking. Nowadays those reports are common. So so sad but true. Populism amongst politicians is increasing imensely. In the last elections around 8% of the people voted for a guy who wants the Koran banished. He thought it was as evil as Hitler's Mein Kampf. And 8% of the people are behind him...
Well enough politics, Adieu to you all and thanks for your concern and help
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Post by JohnG on Oct 12, 2007 14:05:11 GMT -5
Maart, I would recommend not getting into discussions about whether pornography is normal or healthy or not. You are a new member, by your own admission an addict, and recovering from this addiction should be your priority. I know from experience that debates such as this one will only incite argument and conflict, something that makes me feel uncomfortable on the board. And if I feel uncomfortable on the board I will not come here and then what will I have gained? My thinking about pornography was much like yours but over time I have begun to view it as something that exploits weak and damaged individuals even in the best of cases. I do not view it as an evil - but I do view it as a social ill, though one highly unlikely to be cured in my lifetime. But for now the question is not material to your recovery. As to masturbation, I believe it is normal - for normal people. But I am not a normal person. If masturbation complicates or interferes with our recovery (as it does for many) then we must recognize that perhaps our relationship with it is harmful to us. However, this is an issue each person must decide for themselves, preferably after having done some research and reflected on the nature of one's relationship with masturbation. I am going to post to you the same thing that I have posted to other newcomers recently. I used to write these "welcome" posts individually but a lot of people come and go and writing a good introductory post takes a lot of energy. I now use a template based on earlier posts I have made to newcomers. Though the words may be cut and paste the sentiment is not. I will give you the best advice I know how - and it will be the same that I offer to every other new member: If you are addicted to pornography you have come to the right place. There is a lot of information and support here. Recovery is possible but requires three basic elements, regardless of the path you choose: Rigorous honesty Hard work Outside helpYou have to be completely honest with yourself and others at all times as you do your recovery work. Keeping secrets, minimizing, distorting, blame-shifting, etc. will impair your recovery efforts. Ultimately, you will hurt only yourself. You have to develop a plan and work on it. Wanting to quit real bad is never enough. Your recovery will require writing, reading literature and journals on this site, listening to those who have achieved good sobriety, etc. It is both easy and hard. The work required is not overwhelming. But doing it correctly - that is hard because deep down we often resist our own best efforts. You will need the help of others. That will include people on this board. Help does not just mean you ask for help and then people do your work for you. You will get advice - some of it good and some of it not so good. It is up to you to separate the wheat from the chaff, decide what is best for you (not what is easiest), and then put that advice into action. As the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink." A few good free (donations only) recovery programs are listed here: www.slaafws.org/meetinfo.htmlsaa-recovery.org/meetings.htmwww.sa.org/top/www.sca-recovery.org/meetings.htmChristians on the board have found resources and help through these two sites, among others: www.settingcaptivesfree.com/home/www.celebraterecovery.com/Many atheists, agnostics, and others who are not helped by either recovery in a religious context or the spiritual emphasis of of 12 step programs, have found solutions at Rational Recovery: www.rational.orgAnother important resource is the new member's thread found here: lightwave.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1084396654Finally, many addicts have found the following secular online program very helpful: www.recoverynation.com I would also strongly recommend that for now you focus your attention on the Recovering Addicts Forum and the Recovery Journals. Starting your own recovery journal provides you with a place to discuss issues related to your recovery, pull your secrets out of the dark, and track you own progress generally. Finally, focus on today. Some of us fantasize about what our lives will be like when we have a week, a month, or a year of sobriety. Others think, "how can I quit this forever? It seems impossible!" Both are dangerous ways of thinking. They will either distract you from the work you have to do today or they will cause you to despair and give up. Focus on today. First things first. If you have any questions or just want someone to talk to, you are always welcome at my journal. A friend and fellow addict, JohnG
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Post by larus on Oct 12, 2007 14:23:01 GMT -5
that is an interesting question Maart, but there is more to recovering than slipping or not slipping. I recommend you read BlackSpirals latest entry in his journal. He is celebrating 4 years sober and still in recovery and happy too.
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Post by Al on Oct 13, 2007 8:52:31 GMT -5
I recommend therapy before hitting rock bottom, as a preventative measure. After you hit bottom, the pain is complicated.
Be well, Al
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Post by ferdberfil on Oct 13, 2007 12:19:24 GMT -5
Hey maart-
Yeah, pretty much, that's what it's like.
I've found it very helpful. Not only is it a way for me to find social support and maintain my perspective regarding sex and porn addiction, it's a great way for me to combat loneliness (which is a big factor in my porn addiction).
I'm really lucky I found my group. I plan on going to it for the forseeable future.
Regarding Al's point about therapy as a preventative measure, I would agree with what he's saying. Better to be proactive now than wait for your porn addiction to escalate (which it frequently does) and for things to get a lot worse.
Sure, "addiction is addiction" (whatever), but my personal belief is problems like this get a lot harder to fix the longer they drag on. You're young - 23 right? Well, there's a new guy in my psychotherapy group who's in his forties or fifties and has been actively porning and using prostitutes for the past 30 years. This guy has it really rough - his addiction is almost part of his identity, it's so ingrained in him I have trouble seeing him find his way out with just group therapy alone. He needs serious help. The "grooves" in his brain have been worn pretty darn deep. Don't turn out like him.
I just read someone's journal, someone who's been acting out for the past year who previously had a period of abstinence that lasted 2.5 years. That was a little scary for me to read - I'm nearing one year clean and I can't imagine going back to actively porning, but I guess I have to remember that it's always one click away. I have a pretty good life right now - my wife and I have very good, high-paying jobs and we have our first baby on the way. I live near my parents in the center of the greatest city in the world in my opinion (although Amsterdam is a pretty close contender). I have a *lot* to lose, and I'm quite confident if I went back to porning I could lose it very quickly.
Anyways.
-FB
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maart
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by maart on Oct 14, 2007 12:39:26 GMT -5
There's only today!
Today was a good day.
But first of all, I would like to point out what I already have learned here on this board for the past 5 days sice I have registered:
- Don't rationalise
Just read my first posts on the first page, rationalized a lot!
- You can't deal with this on your own because it's not about willpower.
In the past I really tried to stop lots of times, I really wanted but it just didn't happen. Now that I have some tools (this board, an internetfilter) I'm aware that those things really help.
-You have to include others
Perhaps the biggest thing. I already told friends in the past. But because they were also P users, and not everybody was commited to stop, and some of them could handle P very well, it didn't really go anywhere.
But today, I told the person closest to me. My girlfriend. The woman I have loved for the past three years. I had a long talk with her. She took it so well. So told me it was a good thing I told her. She even asked me what she could do to help me. I just didn't know, I think that for now she just knowing about my addiction is a huge step already.
I told her everything. At first I was holding back a bit. (I've been having some problems with P for the past few months), but I just had to be truthfull, and soon I told her I had an addictionproblem for the past year. I told her about his board and about you people helping me out. I usually horse around quite much so at first she thought I was joking, and she was "playing along". I am so lucky with her, this made the whole atmosphere of the talk so open and relaxed. Then she noticed that I was serious, she listened so well. She told me that some of my behaviour made sense to her now (I'm always late for appointments, acting out P fantasies in bed ect.) Just listening to her talk was a very good thing. She's behind me.
I have the feeling that I'm right in the middle of the first step. Admitting. Really admitting to myself and others. Usually when I would admit in the past, I could take those words back the next day when I felt like watching P again. Now I can't because I have been completely honest with my loved one. There's now way back now. Now I have to fully understand what this addiction does to my life. I still don't know exactly, because right now, while I am typing this, I'm thinking there's no REAL harm in searching for P. "After all, this has been a good day in my recovery right? I have been clean for the weekend so far, no REAL harm right?" Now, I have to find a way to cope with these thoughts. It's a long way to go, but it feels great to know I'm going somewhere. Sure, the hill is steep, but I'm climbing. And the higher I get, the more tired I get, and the more I want to give up. But at the same time every step makes me stronger as well.
It's a real comfort that I can talk to my GF about this subject. I too, like you ferdberfil (btw, great you a little one on the way!), have a lot to lose. I have just finished acting school, and I'm lucky because I have got theatre work this whole year. In the past few weeks I have neglected my theatrework, and I'm just too damn young and talented to let that happen!
Feel free to post. I intend to post in this topic for a long time, should I make a diary or just post in this topic?
Life is great,
Cheers
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maart
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by maart on Oct 14, 2007 17:30:27 GMT -5
damn, slipped again... Today was a good recovery day, but I guess it made me way too confidend. On my computer I deleted all my P and I have an adult filter. But while I was cleaning up my room I found some magazines I totally forgot about... I should have thrown them out right away, but I just wanted to take a quick look. One thing led to another... Now they're in the bin. What's strange is the way is how quickly my behaviour changes. This is what I wrote in my last post: I have just finished acting school, and I'm lucky because I have got theatre work this whole year. In the past few weeks I have neglected my theatrework, and I'm just too damn young and talented to let that happen! When I wrote that and when I read it now, it seems like I have never been more dedicated to work on my addiction. And just a couple of hours later it just turns around..
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Post by larus on Oct 15, 2007 2:23:17 GMT -5
maart,
it amazes me how quick you are picking this up and take action. That is wonderful. But like you slipped yesterday, and how you describe your change in behaviour, it is just how the addiction works, and it indicates that wanting to change is not the same as changing profoundly. To make real progress you will need to dig (no telling where or what you will find), and be prepared to invest time and dedication, and lots of both. It is my experience that the payoff is immense.
larus
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genan
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by genan on Oct 16, 2007 11:31:38 GMT -5
Hi Maarten,
Like a few others have said - well done for admitting to yourself that you are addicted and then sharing it on here - seriously. That is not an easy thing to do but everyone on here has had to do it.
I agree with you on the fact that it's PORN is the problem and more specifically internet porn. i do think fantasising is okay sometimes because like you say, it's what makes us human - just as long as this doesn't lead back to porn. This is what many on here find hard, but we are all individuals and handle different things in our own way.
I wish you luck with your recovery and i would advise you to drop in regularly whether you are doing good or bad because i can tell you, that from my point of view it has helped enormously.
There are good people on here and you can pick up a lot of help. You will also find you are not alone and that helped me a lot.
Peace
Genan
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maart
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by maart on Oct 16, 2007 14:30:05 GMT -5
I just can't manage to stay clean for a couple of days. Yesterday was fine. I was working and with my GF all day, so there weren't any temptations. Today, sitting at my computer, knowing P is just one click away... my internetfilter popped up, and I just ignored it. The stupid thing was, I really WANTED to watch P. There was no shame, no "wrong" feeling, I really wanted it, and so I did.
Now I'm looking at the clock and 1,5 hours have passed and I think about my GF, how I told her, just 2 days ago, that I am an addict and I want to change. (expletive). I have en new rule. If I feel an urge, I will post here. Hope it will help.
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genan
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by genan on Oct 16, 2007 16:25:04 GMT -5
we've all been there my friend so don't beat yourself up about it. I mean, give yourself a quick boot up the backside but then get yourself thinking positively again.
What you must try to do is LEARN FROM IT. That's all: Progress not perfection.
Keep on posting
Genan
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maart
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by maart on Oct 17, 2007 13:26:21 GMT -5
guys it is so difficult... Today I slipped again. I wouldn't even call it slipping because it was the second day in a row. Although I have learned a lot on this board, bringing all the information into practise is another thing. Yesterday after I slipped, I did it again because I thought "Well, I today is already a waste, so why not". If I have anything to learn from today, it should be that even though I slipped, that should NOT be an excuse to do it again.
One of the main things about the P addiction I hate, is that it's so time consuming. Before I slipped I thought "If I'll only do it for about 15 minutes, at least it won't take much time". But off course, it took about an hour. After that there's an half hour of thinking, cursing, feeling numb, writing on this board. That's one and a half hour. If I visit this board before MBing to P, read some topics I can actually SAVE time. It will be an investment. I hope that tomorrow, I will write to you CLEAN.
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Post by Al on Oct 17, 2007 16:39:09 GMT -5
No. You slipped twice. Every event is its own slip. A series of slips is called a binge. Stop your binge.
Be well, Al
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Post by TH on Oct 17, 2007 16:43:33 GMT -5
Maart,
I'm sorry you are struggling but in a way I'm not sorry. Because with every slip you are closer to the realization that you are powerless to fixing this on your own. I can tell you are sincere in your determination to stop. It's apparent with every post that you're realizing how serious this is. So every time you act out you are closer to taking action which will lead you to the solution and to progressive victory over lust.
There are two major elements to addiction. Physical and Mental
PHYSICAL Like the alcoholic and drug addict when we use our drug of choice (in this case Masturbation) chemicals are released to receptor cells in the brain. When we M excessively over a period of time more receptor cells are created. These receptor cells become accustomed to a regular supply of these feel good chemicals. When we stop M the urges and the cravings intensify as the cells become starved. Most addicts mistake this as having a huge sex drive. This is a learned physical adaptaion of the body and is why sex addicts need to go through a "drying out" time just like a heroine addict or an alcoholic. During this time the receptor cells close down and you become less dependent "physically" on these chemicals.
This drying out period is different for everyone and comes with physical withdrawal symptoms like heaviness in the groin, headaches, trouble sleeping, etc.
This is the period that you are most likely experiencing and could be why you are struggling to even stay clean for 2 days.
Mental (emotional) Once the addict gets over the majority of the physical cravings then it's much easier to turn your attention to the "why" we became addicted in the first place. And that's when the emotional and mental stuff needs to be addressed. What is it in our lives that we are seeking escape from? What resentments do we hold? What are our triggers (loneliness, fear, procrastination, etc)?
There are so many tools available to us as addicts on the road to recovery. This board is an amazing place to first come to terms with the fact that we are addicts and to define our addiction. Is it only P we are addicted to? Is it M? Is it sex with others? Or does it fall under the big umbrella of lust?
Going to a recovery group like a 12 step program (SA, SLAA, SAA etc) is a really excellent tool. I joined one and can't believe the sobriety and recovery that people have achieved there. Most members are years into sobriety and I've met a man who has been sober for over 30.
Anyway, it's a very good thing you are catching this at a young age. Lust is a formidable opponent and harder to deal with the longer you leave it. Good for you for taking steps to deal with this now.
Peace TH
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Post by reconstituting on Oct 18, 2007 10:58:51 GMT -5
maart,
I think it is important to realise that whether P or M is evil or bad in general is just not relevant. What is important is what is bad for you, with your problems (which sound very much like my problems) with P.
It is like an alcoholic thinking about whether alcohol is a bad thing in general or whether it should be banned. The important thing for the alcoholic is whether having a drink or visiting a bar is bad for him personally.
Best wishes - I hope you get this under control before it wastes as much of your life as it has of mine,
Recon
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