maart
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by maart on Oct 9, 2007 14:34:55 GMT -5
Hi everybody, First of all, I am quite glad this forum exists. I have been looking for some online help regarding porn addiction and most of these websites revolve around religion too. I respect all religions, but it does get a bit anoying after awhile, me being an atheist. I am a 23 year old guy from the Netherlands (I'm sorry if my spelling and grammar isn't totally correct), and it doesn't take me long to admit I am porn addicted. I have been for about 2 years. Of course, when you're young it's just fun and exciting. Nowadays, it's a part of my daily routine. And that's the part I hate. It steals away my time, my plans, so I guess part of my life! Typing this is pretty shocking, it takes away part of my life... I have been reading this board a couple of times and this is the first time I felt like posting. But I think I have a different view on porn than others: - I don't believe that porn is just plain "evil". Throughout history and in all cultures people have been expressing erotica, through different mediums; books, rock carvings, paintings, vase drawings, and in the last century: film. Sex isn't just something personal, it's a cultural phenomena. - I have nothing against mastubating. I think it's healthy and natural. Fantasising is what makes us human beings. I however do feel that internetporn can be dangerous. Porn has always been addictive for every man, but it hasn't been until now that everyone, even young kids can get their hands on it instantly, within seconds. Also porn models get younger everyday, and in many videos the idea is that it's all reallife. So far so good, that's how I think about porn. If you can handle it, it's great. However, I have become an addict. Man, addict, it's such a big word isn't it? It sounds so serious... Like I am some kind of junkie. The thing is, I have a beautiful girlfriend. I have a good life. But it could be way better. I watch porn everyday. And almost everyday I intend to stop, because it costs me at least 2 hours a day. When I'm not at home I don't really mind I don't have porn. But sitting at my own laptop and surfing for porn has been almost the same thing. It takes so much time, but I gain absolutely NOTHING from it. I feel like my body is enslaving my mind. I make up lame excuses everytime I want to watch porn to justify it. I don't hate the porn, I hate myself for not overpowering it. So how I feel is: I don't want to be addicted anymore. I do think it's okay to watch porn sometimes (1 or 2 times a month?) as long as I am not addicted. Or... is this just a lame junkie excuse? Not wanting to be addicted, but still wanting the thing you're addicted to? Is a life with porn possible? I do think so. Or is the part of my brain that handles all the addiction stuff so corrupted already that I couldn't handle it ever again? Man, this is indeed junkie stuff, trying to justify porn... The funny thing is I also smoke pot (It's legal in The Netherlands) and I don't have any addiction problems with that. I do remember being quite addicted to videogames when I was younger. Well this is getting quite long, thanks for reading so far I am going to post everyday I am at home, because I really want to stop it this time. P has had control way to long. I want to take it back. I hope that tomorrow I can type in "succes! one day clean". I don't have specific period in mind (a month, hundred days), should I? If you have any advice, or just want to post, feel free! Thank you for reading! Maarten
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ronin
New Member
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Post by ronin on Oct 9, 2007 15:43:05 GMT -5
maart,
I too am new here, but would like to respond to your message. First of all, congrats on your admission, it's not an easy thing.
Just because porn is so wide-spread and has been around for so long, doesn't make it right, especially for an addict. Some people may be able to rationalize it when they get their spouse involved, and maybe that works for them. But here's the one problem I see. You are being stimulated by someone other than the one you have pledged your devotion too. If you stay with your girlfriend and you get married, time will go by, you'll both become older, and eventually, the only one who could possibly find her attractive would be you. This is a problem because the girls in porn never age. If I keep comparing my wife to those girls, my happiness with her will steadily decline to levels I don't want to think about.
It does sound like you're rationalizing it...if you can't go a day without it, if you bring yourself to go a month without it, after that month is over, you'll likely be back at it daily again. It is best to not set a date.
I'm going to assume that you are "active" with your girlfriend. Try this...if you are able to go without porn for a week, take an analysis of how "good" it is with her on the 7th day. You may find it to be better than before.
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Post by larus on Oct 9, 2007 17:01:58 GMT -5
Maarten, welcome here. Good move to want to stop p addiction and i wish you all the best.
a fellow lowlander Larus
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Post by larus on Oct 10, 2007 2:39:40 GMT -5
Maarten, there was more I wanted to write yestedaynight but I was tired so here goes part 2. I don't have specific period in mind (a month, hundred days), should I? If you have any advice, or just want to post, feel free! For me there is just one period to go for: from now till the day I die. Are you considering support in 'real life'? Like SLAA groups, or counselling, or confiding in a trusted person? That has been essential for getting my recovery going. - I don't believe that porn is just plain "evil". Throughout history and in all cultures people have been expressing erotica, through different mediums; books, rock carvings, paintings, vase drawings, and in the last century: film. Sex isn't just something personal, it's a cultural phenomena. Of course there are many people who have those same opinions, it is just that as an addict all you have to care about is getting out of this in one piece. That is a hard thing to do and it is not helpful to ponder wether porn in general would be evil. All that matters is that it is evil to YOU, and destroying you. - I have nothing against mastubating. I think it's healthy and natural. Fantasising is what makes us human beings. That is a topic that has been discussed a lot here. Most here agree that masturbation is only helping them from the 'wal in de sloot' (helps them to go under). But also you seem to recognise addict speak, when you say Man, this is indeed junkie stuff, trying to justify porn... It seems your head is quite full of contradicting ideas. I would recommend you join some sort of support group or have counselling, to get your mind around what the addiction really does and has done to you. What about your girlfriend? How does the addiction influence your relationship? Have you told her? And again I wish you all the best. larus
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Post by epiphanygirl on Oct 10, 2007 11:17:02 GMT -5
Nowadays, it's a part of my daily routine. And that's the part I hate. It steals away my time, my plans, so I guess part of my life!
So far so good, that's how I think about porn. If you can handle it, it's great.
I watch porn everyday. And almost everyday I intend to stop, because it costs me at least 2 hours a day.
It takes so much time, but I gain absolutely NOTHING from it. I feel like my body is enslaving my mind.
I don't hate the porn, I hate myself for not overpowering it.
So how I feel is: I don't want to be addicted anymore. I do think it's okay to watch porn sometimes (1 or 2 times a month?) as long as I am not addicted.
Is a life with porn possible? I do think so.
P has had control way to long. I want to take it back.
Read the excerpts in bold. This is what YOU wrote. And upon reading it, it should help you see the truth about whether you are addicted to p or not.
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Post by charles515 on Oct 10, 2007 11:38:36 GMT -5
Ask yourself these questions: could you honestly only watch it once or twice a month? And if you could, would you want to watch it more but you are just trying to hold yourself to the once or twice a month rule to "prove" you have power over? An idea that gets lost or forgotten a lot here is it is more about what goes on your mind than your actions. If your head is straight, the actions will be right. And yes, that sounds like some form of justification to continue to use it. I myself and I would be 99% of the people here could not watch it once or twice a month. How would that work? Designate certain days? Only do it when the urge comes? (Of course, that would train yourself to go to P whenever the urge comes which is part of the problem to begin with.)
There's an idea I have read about this topic on this board and elsewhere, that it is not about overpowering it. It is not a matter of wits or wills. You have to accept that you are powerless to it in order to overcome it.
There seems to be a lot of contradictory advise with this addiction that seems to work. I'm not sure why, but it may be because we are always fighting ourselves to overcome yet. It mainly has to do with acceptance. Accept the fact that is impossible to overpower it will make it easier to resist. I think it has to do with the fact the more you fight it or argue with it, the stronger the desire to use it is. It might have to do with the fact that you want it for a reason. Your emotional sensor is feeling pain somewhere and it wants you to acknowledge the pain. Using P numbs the pain. It is like a drug because there is a high associated with it.
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Post by kyle on Oct 10, 2007 14:49:21 GMT -5
Maart, To start things off I want to say this. Like all my other initial posts, the words here are completely heartfelt. I have written several to new folks and I have the same intent behind each of them, but it is sometimes hard for me to get the words right. I have made this one that I send to the newcomers and want you to know that I mean everything written. I think John has a similar thing and I agree with him that These are sincere words to you and each new person here. I first want to welcome you to the first day of your new life. I, and many others, will tell you that you have taken a HUGE first step in your goal of recovery. You have opened yourself up and allowed others to see and for many, that is the Hardest part of all. Truly admitting that you have a problem is big in starting your recovery. I am glad that you have chosen to seek out help. I waited much too long, 20+ years, and it nearly destroyed my family. Congratulations on seeing this as a problem and taking the appropriate steps to break free. As for me, I follow God. I know others here do not have the same beliefs as I, and they will be sharing with you as well. I follow my faith very closely now and have grown a lot because of that. I have begun a free on line course at www.settingcaptivesfree.com called the way of purity. This is a biblically based course that I have found extremely helpful with my recovery. there are several of us on this forum who I have seen are committed to this course and have been helped by it. Secondly, there are several book that are very good reading and have excellent advise to follow. I am currently reading The war Within by Robert Daniels. I have a couple more waiting in the wings to read; Facing your Giants by Max Lucado and a couple that are also marriage related. The seven principles for making Marriage work by John Gottman and The Exemplary Husband by Stuart Scott. I have found these very helpful so far and look forward to picking up th next book to continue in the right direction. Third I would suggest coming here often. I come here daily and read what others are going through and it helps me to see where I was, where I am and most importantly, where I am going. Focus is a key and maintaining that focus will carry me through. Again I welcome you and wish you great successes in your recovery from this horrible sin that has plagued our lives. God bless you and yours. Keep the faith my Brother,
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Post by Al on Oct 11, 2007 9:49:25 GMT -5
Good thoughts here. For me, talking about whether porn is okay for some people, considering that some people can handle it, rationalizing that it's been around a long time, pondering the naturalness (or not) of mastubation.... it's all just a waste of time.
Time that I could spend recovering. It begins with the admission that regardless of what other people do, porn and masturbation are not for me, and never can be. That's just the way things are. And the sooner I learn to live in that reality, the sooner I can recover well from past mistakes.
Be well, Al
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maart
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by maart on Oct 11, 2007 11:33:20 GMT -5
Thanks everyone, for being so commited!
I wasn't online yesterday but here I am, still clean. And it feels like a good thing, returning to this board telling i haven't done p in 2 days. Wasn't that hard actually. Although while turning on my PC I'm thinking of p straight away.
Maybe it's because of a looser (european?) sexuale morale, bur I honestly don't believe that porn is evil. Some porn (well lately a lot of porn) is (think about male dominance). Porn is not destroying me. My addiction is. I could well be addicted to drugs, gaming, gambling. Does the fact that there are people gaming, eating, doing (soft)drugs, make those bad things? I don't believe so.
But I have the feeling that I'm defending myself here, and after all I came here to be helped and you lot are very helpful. We're just all people with different views.
And indeed larus, you've made a good point. Right now I am destroying myself with P so I just shouldn't bother with it no more.
And it's not about fighting porn, it's about focussing on the good things in life so you don't have to cover up things with P anymore.
I have some friends I have told, in the past I we made agreements that we would call one another if we were tempted and we tried to quit p for a month. These agreements usually worked for about a week because I think we weren't that commited.
My relationship with my girlfriend is fantastic. I don't think that my p addiction is affecting our bond. However there are times during sex that i think about p. Not a good thing i guess. This may happen 3 out of 10 times. The other 7 out of 10 times the sex is wonderful. I have told her that watching p can be difficult for me. But she doesn't know that for the last year I have been watching it on a weekly basis (4 a 5 times a week, the last couple of months everyday). In fact, in the beginning of our relationship we have been watching p together a couple of times. It was somewhat funny and also a bit exitig, but when we got in the mood ourselves we would turn it off. And epiphanygirl, reading my own message with the excerpts in bold; quite confronting. Thank you
Before I get proffesional help, first I would like to try it this way. Coming to the board, crossing the days I've been clean on my calender and making more of my days.
You guys take this addiction very serious. I applaud you for that. I do have the feeling that my goal differes somewhat from yours. I don't really care about never watching p again. I don't think it is a sin, don't think it's evil, ect. I just don't want to be addicted to the stuff. If I stay clean for a couple of months and I slip for one day, I wouldn't think it's THAT big of a deal, as long as i'm not doing it 2 hours a day again. As long as it won't control my daily schedule, my time. I can understand, that going with the biblical learnings, just watching another naked woman having sex is a sin, and that's where you go wrong. For me that's not the wrong thing really. Being addicted is.
And maybe this is all rationalizing addict speak, it could be. But this is honestly how I feel. I don't know much about addiction, I guess a lot of you do, so thanks for posting. I'll come back whenever I can, Thanks!
Maarten
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Post by unico on Oct 11, 2007 12:01:44 GMT -5
If, as you have admitted you are addicted to porn it should be a big deal to relapse for one day. Personally, I don't think you will ever be able to use porn in a 'normal' way again if you are truly addicted to the stuff. My goal is to completely eliminate the use of porn media from my life. That requires me to say Never again to porn. I don't believe half measures (occasional relapses) have any place in my recovery. Set your target at 30, 60 then 100 days porn free. After that you should be in a stronger position to say Never to stuff again. I wish you every success in tackling your behaviour head on.
Unico
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Post by Al on Oct 11, 2007 12:27:33 GMT -5
If you are addicted to the stuff then it is evil for you.
Be well, Al
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Post by rockwell on Oct 11, 2007 14:43:43 GMT -5
In my opinon, there is no "Normal" way to view P. It is not Normal even though it is widespread. You need to committ to renouncing its power in your life and turning the other direction before you destroy your life and your relationships forever. That is scary enough to be your wake-up call.
rock
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Post by edwards on Oct 12, 2007 9:56:20 GMT -5
maart...Belief is not always knowledge....I too have been where you are. Internet Porn is the crack cocaine of the web.......and smoking pot is the stepping stone to other drugs and it makes a person irrational in the choices they make. This is not a forum on drug use so I will skip that except to tell you to quit, before it takes control of your life in ways that you never expected.
Addictions do not come over night, sometimes it takes years. But as you are believing P and POT is OK that even makes it easier to work their effects on your values. I use to think a pretty girl showing some skin and a few puffs of reffer where relaxing. It was, but 3 marriages later, and a mind that still has flashbacks and questions about why I did it..........find myself clean from drugs for over 20 years........but the porn thing is a daily fight. It takes away the beauty of a wife and the love men and women are supposed to have. My mind keeps thinking...hey what about that video or picture........wish the wife was like that etc. It's all grayness but it has happened to me.......and you need to keep it from becoming a part of life........it Sucks to lose the good life and have it replaced with un-real imagination's. Just my view here, we all know that people are not confused by what happens to them, but by their opinions of what has happened to them. Edwards
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maart
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by maart on Oct 12, 2007 12:06:21 GMT -5
This is probably more serious then I thought. I slipped today. After two days...
It wasn't with a movie but with a magazine (no sex, just models). So for myself I probably rationalized it thinking "it's not internet P so it's okay". Stupid me.
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Post by ferdberfil on Oct 12, 2007 13:39:08 GMT -5
Hey maart-
I'm glad you're dealing with this at such a young age.
I've found that what's been most helpful for me is being extremely clear about what my problem is and focusing on it.
For some, quitting masturbation, and sexual relations with others, as well as drugs, alcohol, and for some, even all forms of media (e.g., TV, movies, et cetera) has been necessary for them to successfully start working their recovery from porn addiction.
For me, I've had to draw the line sharply at "no using any media for sexual arousal." Period. For me, there is no such thing as a "safe" form of sexual arousal through media, whether it be "bikini shots" or rewinding to sexy scenes in movies, or catalog ads, or what have you. It's all "porn" to me, and I treat it as such. You might want to consider that sort of bottom line for yourself - I agree that sexual energy is not something that humans should feel they have to bottle and supress, but (at least for me) directing my sexual energy onto inanimate media as opposed to my wife or (non physically) into my interactions with other people is very unhealthy to me.
Like you, I don't personally consider masturbation unhealthy. My addiction is porn. However, since MB and P were intertwined as behaviors, I did find abstaining from MB for the first six months since my last relapse a very helpful thing. You might consider it. I'm back to using MB again, but I'm extremely careful to make sure no porn imagery makes it's way into my MB sessions.
Regarding the pot thing, I would trust you know yourself on this issue. I personally would guess alcohol is more potentially dangerous to people in early recovery than cannabis (as alcohol tends to be far more disinhibiting for most people). I used to smoke a lot of pot myself, and I considered it a fairly benign issue in my life (except my wife grumbled about it). I haven't smoked for a while now, mainly because I work for the US government and they are awfully anal about drug testing people at random.
Anyways, in short, I found a lot of what you spoke about in your initial post very evocative of my own experience. BTW, I've visited the Netherlands and I think it's a wonderful country. I think the USA could stand to emulate quite a bit of the social tolerance that the Dutch practice as part of their culture. We could learn a lot.
Anyways, have you considered getting some extra help for your porn addiction issue? I'm a big fan of counselling - I go to group therapy once a week and do some intermittent couples counselling with my wife. Both have helped us greatly.
See you around!
-FB
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