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Post by creole on Dec 30, 2005 16:36:20 GMT -5
LU, I appreciate your words of encouragement. You sure do help me. ((HUG))
I probably won't be back till 2006. I'm looking forward to a weekend with a good Carnes book! Will let you know my opinion of it when I post next week!
Always,
Creole
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Post by Gewis on Dec 30, 2005 17:38:58 GMT -5
You won't be back until next year?! I'll really miss your posts.
Oh, wait, did somebody say tomorrow is New Year's Eve? Wee! Creole, I still love your posts and insights here. Even if I don't often comment, I do read and follow.
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Post by creole on Jan 3, 2006 11:04:41 GMT -5
Happy New Year Creole! Symbolically, another new beginning, but you know what? Each and every day is a new beginning, another opportunity to be the best person you can be, to insure that your happiness and well being are prioritized.
I spent my weekend with a great Carnes book, "Sexual Anorexia". Lots of great stuff in it. There were times when I'd have to put it down, and just let the message/words sink in. I didn't really begin the actual work, just read it thru, cover to cover. Carnes made many correlations between SA and food anorexia issues. I found the descriptions of the cycles of "acting out" and "acting in" very revealing--Carnes assets that sexual addicts and sexual anorexics both follow cyclic episodes as they act out and act in. Although I purchased the book for my H, I found that so much of it is applicable to me and I feel certain that if I work thru it, the results will be positive ones. H told me this am that he would begin reading it, which encouraged me.
Only one thing in the book concerns me--Carnes discusses specifically utilizing fantasies as a part of healty sexuality. My H's SA specifically centered around the fantasies that he'd write and the subsequent MB that accompanied them. Don't really know how I will address this issue--when we begin joint counseling agin later in January, this will definately be a topic of discussion with our counselor.
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Post by creole on Jan 5, 2006 9:44:34 GMT -5
Beginning observations from Carnes' book, "Sexual Anorexia" and my thoughts and feelings. My journal is where I need to put these, to remind myself of what I am dealing with. Sexual anorexia affects both a sex addict and the co-dependent in the relationship with the SA. Sexual anorexia is basically based on fear--fear of inadequacy, fear of intimacy with sex, fear of vulnerability, rejection, abandonment and the belief that "no one can love me". Carnes says that sexual anorexics believe "sex is my greatest terror", sexual addicts believe "sex is my greatest need" and sexual co-deps believe "sex is the greatest expression of love". Boy did his definition of how a sexual co-dep views sex hit home with me. Carnes asserts that sexual anorexics, sexual addicts and sexual co-deps all share the same core, shame based beliefs and perceptions but their behaviors vary according to whether they are anorexics, addicts or co-deps. Carnes states that most people exhibit some of all three states, sometimes simultaneously with partners, sometimes not.
Another statement from the book which I found really important:
"Whenever we demonstrate any excessive behavior, we probably have some balancing behavior that is equally out of control in another direction. Where there is addiction, most likely this will be some kind of deprivation. Where there is deprivations, binge and addictive behaviors are present".
According to Carnes, deprivation goes hand in hand with sexual addiction/anorexia. Self-deprivation means that the individual doesn't risk and therefore cannot be emotionally rejected or abandoned. Because they deprive themselves, they can control situations and emotions.
According to Carnes, sexual anorexics and sexual addicts both have the same fears which set up a binge-purge or "shame cycle" which is ultimately founded in the family of origin. The cycle works like this:
Acting Out---out of control, compulsive behaviors which bring a release of the feeling of shame and inadequacy:
Compulsive eating, compulsive sexual activity, alcohol/drugs, spending $$, risk taking or workaholism.
These "acting out" behaviors contribute to the feelings of great shame and the anorexic/addict then moves into the "Acting In" behaviors of the cycle:
Acting In--control behaviors, compulsive behaviors which give the anorexic/alcoholic a feeling of being in control of emotions and situations:
Compulsive dieting, compulsive sexual avoidance, alcohol/drug avoidence, excessive spending/hoarding of $$, avoiding any and all risks and religiousity.
Thus the cycle of binge-purge. Sometimes the cycle plays out over a few days/weeks, but in some cases, the cycles don't occur for months or even years. I believe our cycle is years.
The deprivations hit home with me. My H has always been in "deprived" mode with regard to $$, obsessed with never having enough and alternating between being unhappy and angry because H has believe that we didn't have enough money. Don't get me wrong, we're not rolling in money, but we both work, we both make decent salaries, we pay all our bills, no major credit card debt (paid in full each month), vehicles paid off, and less than a year to pay off the mortage with reserve cash funds available and we've never touched our retirement funds for any reason. Pretty good financial place to be compared to many people. However, he is obsessed with not having enough money, compulsive saver. I always put that down to the fact that after his father died (when H was 12), his mother struggled to keep the family afloat. H was the youngest of 3 children. . . .and I just figured his obsessive compulsive need to save $$ resulted from that particular family of origin trauma. Not sure how H will react when he reads this in the Carnes book. . . .
As for me, I see my "Acting Out" behaviors in my alcohol comsumption and work and to some extent, eating. In some respect, risk taking because any attempt to communicate with him was a risk. My "Acting In" behaviors include dieting and definite sex and risk avoidance. Why chance another rejection?
Carnes also draws a strong correlations between food anorexics/bullemics and sexual anorexics/addicts. Very fascinating. This might be a book that LU could utilize effectively in her recovery.
I see the cycle. . .I understand the process. . .now I've gotta do the work to reveal a stronger, happier ME! I will be sad if my H doesn't "grow' with me, but that might be a path that he chooses not to travel.
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Post by creole on Jan 5, 2006 9:55:55 GMT -5
Carnes also states that many sex addicts who begin sobriety and enter recovery also go thru sexual anorexia--Carnes says that this is the equivalent of a "dry drunk". They cannot more forward with recovery as long as they stay anorexic because they have simply substituted one sexual state for another. Eventually, the emotions will become harder to control and the binge-purge, acting out--acting in cycle will begin again.
My H is a "dry drunk sexual anorexic addict" who has chosen to not read the Carnes book. He told me he would begin reading it. Although H is maintaining his sobriety, he is not moving forward with recovery, he is still self-medicating with the alcohol and he is happy with the state of self-imposed sexual anorexia that he has imposed on himelf, and by extension, on me.
Actually, I am disappointed and angry this am. I went to dinner last night with friends, giving him an opportunity to begin reading the book. When I arrived home at 8:45 last night, he was asleep in the chair with the football game on. I just left him there, went to the bedroom, crawled up in the bed, picked up the book and re-read the first two chapters. I turned of the TV when the game ended (go Horns!) and went to bed. He asked me this am what time I had come home. Really encouraging behavior, makes me really want to continue doing this. . .
Now an email about between property taxes and vehicle insurance, we are poor. . . .we are poor all right. I'd say any relationship with no true intimacy is poor. . . .
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Post by lizardking on Jan 5, 2006 10:20:44 GMT -5
Creole,
I have just read your journal through from cover to cover and I must say it was very enlightening. We all need the perspective of an SO because sometimes we (I) can get so caught up in what we have to do as far as recovery that we might just forget that there is another side.
Thanks for sharing that other side with us, I appreciate that a whole lot this morning.
Laissez Bon Temp Roulet
LizardKing
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Post by creole on Jan 5, 2006 10:39:15 GMT -5
LizardKing,
My sincere thanks for your input. Its helpful to me to have other perspectives too! Anytime you want to "share", please feel free to do so.
With continued best wishes on your recovery,
Creole
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Post by creole on Jan 6, 2006 10:04:40 GMT -5
Wonderful thread on recovery. I copied this from LU's respnse and I feel I need to put in here, so that I can digress more later. I agree LU, not all SO's are co-dependents. But, my oh my, what an accurate and appropriate description of a co-dependent. Recovery for co-dependents married to a SA/PA is two-fold. Not only do we have to break free of the ingrained thoughts and shame based beliefs that we chose to define ourselves, but we also have to deal with the emotional trauma and rejection of discovering our spouse is a SA/PA, which reinforces our self-image, that we are unlovable, that we are inadequate, that somehow we must control what we can in order to find stability and serenity. How far from the truth and reality can that be huh?
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Post by creole on Jan 6, 2006 10:23:26 GMT -5
Carnes states that sexual co-dependency is based on the very real core traumas of rejection and abandonment, usually both. Sometimes, physical or emotional trauma also plays a part, but usually, the co-dependency is rooted in rejection and abandonment. The sexual co-dep will expend great amounts of energy and effort to insure that rejection and abandonment never occur again.
Is that ever true of me. For over 25 years, that has been the music that I danced to. Rejection and abandonment were my constant emotional companions. . .and guess what? It has happened again and again to me, and I have just "cowboyed up" and took it, thinking that this was "as good as it gets" and that I didn't deserve better. BS, pure ole BS, lying to myself, letting my fears control me.
Addressing fear is still very difficult. References are often made to "the elephant in the room". As a sexual co-dep, that elephant is still there and his name is "FEAR". Often fear is stronger than any other emotion, but I'm learning to distinguish between emotions, reactions and actions. I can feel the emotion, let it work thru, and let it go; I can react to the emotions but I can't let the emotions dictate my choices. I guess its like learning to think with your head rather than your heart.
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Post by creole on Jan 6, 2006 11:49:32 GMT -5
Reflection for the Day
“If you’re not all right the way you are,” it’s been said, “it takes a lot of effort to get better. Realize you’re all right the way you are & you’ll get better naturally.” Sometimes we find ourselves in a situation so difficult that it seems insoluble. The more we think about it, the more we get on our own backs for our imagined inadequacy to overcome the situation–& we sink into depression. That’s the moment to recall a single phrase, slogan or bit of philosophy, saying it over & over until it replaces thoughts of the tormenting problem–which, in the final analysis will take care of itself. Do I sometimes forget that the thorns have roses?
Today I Pray
May I see that God gives us patterns so that we can take comfort in opposites–day follows night; silence follows din; love follows loneliness; release follows suffering. If I am ineffectual, may I realize it & try to do something constructive. If I am insensitive, may my friends confront me into greater sensitivity.
Today I Will Remember
Clouds have linings. Problems have endings.
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Post by creole on Jan 6, 2006 14:20:48 GMT -5
Really good reply by Leopold Mozart to a thread today. I think its worth keeping here because so much of what he wrote is true. Its validating to have a SA/PA empathize with what an SO feels about this addiction: Dear soulsurvivor: You wrote, and I It may not be healthy, but it is appropriate. When someone betrays you, the appropriate response is hurt. When you ask the person to stop and he doesn't, the hurt becomes anger. When you express the anger and still get no redress, the anger either turns inward and becomes depression, or stays focused on the betrayer and becomes hatred. After reading the stories of scores of women here, and talking to many many women in my life, I've come to realize that the women who are hurt the most by their addicted or abusive husbands are those with the highest amount of integrity. If the woman believes in the moral principles of marriage, keeping the family together, and maintaining relationships, then it becomes extremely hard for her to put ultimatums to her addict husband, and almost impossible for her to leave him. She has to build up so much anger, depression, or hatred that she has to choose ending the relationship as the lesser of two evils (the other being murdering the guy). In addition, if the guy has practiced the art of alternating kindness with traumatic betrayal or abuse, then the "trauma bonding" processes take hold of the woman's psyche, making it extremely difficult for her to leave. (C.f. Betrayal Bonds by Patrick Carnes) Dear Pleasenotagain: I completely agree with what Tamilynn wrote. I just want to say that I've learned from experience that when you are involved with an addict, you are not his primary relationship. The addiction is. I'm sorry that you are going through this. Take care, LM
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Post by LookingUp on Jan 6, 2006 23:48:17 GMT -5
I liked your "reflection" for Jan 5. It made me think of one of my favorite quotes:
"God isn't asking me to change because I'm defective; He's prompting me to change because it's part of the growing up process." - Rev. Marti Powell
My child wasn't defective when he was 18 months because he wore a diaper - he was right on schedule to start potty training. He wasn't defective when he couldn't print his name at 4 years - he was right on schedule to start learning that skill. He wasn't defective at 14 because he couldn't drive a car - he was right on schedule to get behind the steering wheel and learn. I'm not defective at 55 because it's the time in my life to grow past co-dependent behavior or to learn to have healthy relationships - I'm right on schedule!
LookingUp
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Post by creole on Jan 7, 2006 11:18:05 GMT -5
I have a few moments of privacy to write in my journal this Saturday am. Usually, I do not scribe from home, but this is a little moment of joy and a blessing to me.
Today's meditation:
Self-love, my liege, is not so vile a sin as self- neglect. — William Shakespeare
We will never achieve a feeling of true safety by seeing our self-image in terms of our character defects. To give our shortcomings such power is to ensure that we will never have enough faith or strength to go forward: we are either condemned to live in the past, trying to change it, or to the future, trying to control it.
The only safety is in the present, affirming the positive qualities we possess. Even if we're in deep sorrow this moment, we can feel safe by appreciating that we have the ability to grieve, which takes courage & passion for life. Appreciating our many good points is a way to counteract the fear that eats away at our security.
There are a number of ways we can affirm our worth. We can write affirmations, ask others for positive support, list our good qualities & include our progress in recovery in our daily inventory. We deserve to have the freedom that comes from feeling safe within ourselves. What am I saying to myself right now — "You're a failure" or "You're wonderful & I love you"?
More Carnes info for reflection: One of the sexual extremes that Carnes identifies is the "Binge and Purge" which consists of "being sexually out of control at some times and rigidly in control at others. One of the most common forms of simultaneous binge and purge is where an addict is outing out dramatically outside of a committed relationship but within that relationship can only act in, can only be compulsively non-sexual."
"To live in the fantasy world of compulsive masturbation was safe in its unreality. To love his wife but not be sexual with her could also be safe.. .. .What is common for many, however is acting out--or acting in--sexually while avoiding sexual intimacy"
Carnes, from "Sexual Anorexia"
Pretty accurate description of my husband. Committed relationship?
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Post by creole on Jan 8, 2006 21:34:03 GMT -5
Just a quick "fly-by" thought. . . .
It commercial time for the James Bond marathon. I love the Bond movies and Sean Connery is, in my personal opinion, THE James Bond.
Anyway, just watching the movies, and the Bond girls, with the comments on the bottom of the screen, they were absolutely playing into the male predatory "come hither". Its always been thee, and I've watched and loved these movies forever. Goldfinger is my favorite.
Suddenly, I'm triggered. I"M TRIGGERED!
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Post by soulsurvivor on Jan 8, 2006 21:37:02 GMT -5
Dont be triggerd! They are just actors trying to be the way that people fantasize about being, but not how people "really are"
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