Post by Mayberry on Dec 7, 2007 7:36:48 GMT -5
Hello, friend!
I'm so happy that you're so close to being finished with the quilt. I hope you're feeling better, physically?
Some of what you shared here seems so delicate to me that I am hesitant to comment. Please forgive, in advance, any rough-shodness in my responses...
I can completely understand this doubt, this fear, this anxiety and this vulnerability.
May I offer some brief thoughts that may or may not be helpful to you?
* You are seeing an imbalance in the type of sharing, and that's bound to be both frustrating and anxiety producing (and probably some other stuff too). I'm sorry you're going through this, but I also see this is a possibly vital time for you both, and I'm holding you both fast in prayer.
* This may land wrong, but....I don't know about you, but it took me about a year to begin talking after my birth. ( ) By my rough calculations, it took me about 5 years to begin to be able to speak *any* of the language of emotional intimacy after I left my family of origin. It's taken me almost 20 years to get as "far" as I have, and I am still bewildered by the areas in which I have not learned to speak and share honestly. This is, of course, not about me, but is my (gentle?) way of saying, "I wonder if it's appropriate to accept that Mr. LU is taking some steps right now, and it might be good to give him room to learn new information, including (as you point out) what his truth IS." I am watching this at work in Mr. Mayberry. Five months ago, he literally couldn't "see" (and I'm a fair good "explainer") how his childhood dynamics, his young adult dynamics, might POSSIBLY play into the holes in his soul he was trying to fill with porn. A really non-threatening example? Silent dinners. He likes to hear Ang & me talk during dinner. He didn't talk much. It really creeped me out. Recently, he's learned about himself AND been able to say that meals were something to be "survived" with no invitation to blow-ups. DUH?! Of course, the truth has been the truth all along: this has always been true for him. And knowing his truth has certainly helped me a little bit. But, more important (to my way of thinking) HE now knows the truth and, knowing it, spoke it, and knowing & speaking it, acted to change it to suit his NEW circumstances. I honestly think that every time I had questioned his silence BEFORE he knew his own truth, he could "only" hear it as reproach. "You don't talk and that bothers me." And that WAS my truth. But my speaking my truth didn't do him a damned bit of good...just made him feel "weirder" and close down, shut up further. As he's done a little work himself, he got to find his own truth, and that seems to give humans in general (IMO) the ability to embrace this newfound knowledge and move on from there.
Which leads to....
* You talk about speaking your honesty. I have two thoughts about this. One is pretty much touched on above. Modeling how one does this "feeling and sharing" stuff is important for our friends (and husbands) to learn from, I think. That said, I seem to be learning (the hardest way possible) that it ENDS there. My honesty cannot be a shovel that I use to beat Mr. M over the head with. I'm not saying *you* do this; I'm saying that *I'm* trying to learn this. Your sharing about the family models really got to me. I could go on and on about my family; but I also have 20 years of doing work in this area to understand myself and my family of origin. Mr. M can't go on and on about his, because he's *just* beginning to think about this stuff (as staggering as that thought is to me, I believe it is his truth). This leads me to....
* There are some of my truths, mostly related to Mr. Mayberry, that it is not appropriate for me to share with Mr. Mayberry. This has been a hard one for me to wrap my head around. Let me use my healing exercises as an example. Mr. Mayberry is welcome to read them, but I have strongly suggested to him that he does not. Why? It's not because he's not welcome to the information, if he wants it. It's because this is MY work, MY healing, and I learned in my last relationship/first marriage that the person who hurt me can do only limited work in helping me to heal from those hurts. Friends, therapist, journaling, self-help work all did FAR more, were far more appropriate places for me to do the work of healing in my own life. I think, for me, it's become the most natural thing in the world to turn to someone who's hurt me and say "Look what you did to me. Fix this, please." But, honestly, the only reasons someone would hurt me would be 1) they were acting with malice toward me (in which case, why WOULD they fix it?) and 2) they were not acting with malice toward me, but hurt me by accident (in which case, one or two voicings of "Look what you did. Fix this!" should work to keep it from happening again) and 3) they were not acting with malice toward me, but hurt me because they are broken and hurting and don't know another way to act (in which case, they will have to change, and the change will come harder for them, and I am at risk and vulnerable during that time as their friend). Anyway, my very long-winded POINT? My point is that I believe there are areas in life where the work of healing is done COMPANIONABLY (each partner remains open to the other's growth) but SEPARATELY (some stuff is done solo, because it is one's own crap from before the partner that one is *truly* dealing with, as well as the *new* harm within the relationship that has stemmed from the old stuff that has nothing to do with the relationship).
Sigh. Words just get in the way some days.
Anyway, what I was trying to say with that last one? I am able to share some of the "bullet points" of my own work with Mr. M. He seems able to share some his bullet points with me. I have begun trying to not give him all the gory details of my healing because (duh!) he's got his own work to do, and is slowly doing it, and I can see evidence of the fact that he's doing this work.
I'm giving up now!
I love you, and I will pray that you find balance for yourself and your relationship in this teeter-totter of learning to be good companions and partners to each other, as well as learning to be healthier inside. I'm so proud of you for trying; I *do* know how scary a land it is to try at all, let alone to hope for a future where you *both* are in good health, personally and communally. J
I'm so happy that you're so close to being finished with the quilt. I hope you're feeling better, physically?
Some of what you shared here seems so delicate to me that I am hesitant to comment. Please forgive, in advance, any rough-shodness in my responses...
I don't know what's a realistic expectation are or what might just be BS to string me along thinking he's growing when he's just BSing me. That frightens me. This makes me feel very vulnerable.
I can completely understand this doubt, this fear, this anxiety and this vulnerability.
Vulnerable right now is good - because it means I'm recognizing that the relationship is lopsided and I either need to reign in my honesty or stay vulnerable and figure out how to handle the fear - or is it inevitable? I'm just not sure what is SAFE; what is healthy relationship stuff. I know it's good for me to learn to speak my honesty - but maybe he's not a safe choice to speak my honesty to since he doesn't reciprocate. I'm not sure how to speak to him about that - maybe I'm co-D, but if he's not yet at the place to know his truth, then he can't speak it and then I'm not being fair.... or is fair even part of the thought process? I'm just confused.
May I offer some brief thoughts that may or may not be helpful to you?
* You are seeing an imbalance in the type of sharing, and that's bound to be both frustrating and anxiety producing (and probably some other stuff too). I'm sorry you're going through this, but I also see this is a possibly vital time for you both, and I'm holding you both fast in prayer.
* This may land wrong, but....I don't know about you, but it took me about a year to begin talking after my birth. ( ) By my rough calculations, it took me about 5 years to begin to be able to speak *any* of the language of emotional intimacy after I left my family of origin. It's taken me almost 20 years to get as "far" as I have, and I am still bewildered by the areas in which I have not learned to speak and share honestly. This is, of course, not about me, but is my (gentle?) way of saying, "I wonder if it's appropriate to accept that Mr. LU is taking some steps right now, and it might be good to give him room to learn new information, including (as you point out) what his truth IS." I am watching this at work in Mr. Mayberry. Five months ago, he literally couldn't "see" (and I'm a fair good "explainer") how his childhood dynamics, his young adult dynamics, might POSSIBLY play into the holes in his soul he was trying to fill with porn. A really non-threatening example? Silent dinners. He likes to hear Ang & me talk during dinner. He didn't talk much. It really creeped me out. Recently, he's learned about himself AND been able to say that meals were something to be "survived" with no invitation to blow-ups. DUH?! Of course, the truth has been the truth all along: this has always been true for him. And knowing his truth has certainly helped me a little bit. But, more important (to my way of thinking) HE now knows the truth and, knowing it, spoke it, and knowing & speaking it, acted to change it to suit his NEW circumstances. I honestly think that every time I had questioned his silence BEFORE he knew his own truth, he could "only" hear it as reproach. "You don't talk and that bothers me." And that WAS my truth. But my speaking my truth didn't do him a damned bit of good...just made him feel "weirder" and close down, shut up further. As he's done a little work himself, he got to find his own truth, and that seems to give humans in general (IMO) the ability to embrace this newfound knowledge and move on from there.
Which leads to....
* You talk about speaking your honesty. I have two thoughts about this. One is pretty much touched on above. Modeling how one does this "feeling and sharing" stuff is important for our friends (and husbands) to learn from, I think. That said, I seem to be learning (the hardest way possible) that it ENDS there. My honesty cannot be a shovel that I use to beat Mr. M over the head with. I'm not saying *you* do this; I'm saying that *I'm* trying to learn this. Your sharing about the family models really got to me. I could go on and on about my family; but I also have 20 years of doing work in this area to understand myself and my family of origin. Mr. M can't go on and on about his, because he's *just* beginning to think about this stuff (as staggering as that thought is to me, I believe it is his truth). This leads me to....
* There are some of my truths, mostly related to Mr. Mayberry, that it is not appropriate for me to share with Mr. Mayberry. This has been a hard one for me to wrap my head around. Let me use my healing exercises as an example. Mr. Mayberry is welcome to read them, but I have strongly suggested to him that he does not. Why? It's not because he's not welcome to the information, if he wants it. It's because this is MY work, MY healing, and I learned in my last relationship/first marriage that the person who hurt me can do only limited work in helping me to heal from those hurts. Friends, therapist, journaling, self-help work all did FAR more, were far more appropriate places for me to do the work of healing in my own life. I think, for me, it's become the most natural thing in the world to turn to someone who's hurt me and say "Look what you did to me. Fix this, please." But, honestly, the only reasons someone would hurt me would be 1) they were acting with malice toward me (in which case, why WOULD they fix it?) and 2) they were not acting with malice toward me, but hurt me by accident (in which case, one or two voicings of "Look what you did. Fix this!" should work to keep it from happening again) and 3) they were not acting with malice toward me, but hurt me because they are broken and hurting and don't know another way to act (in which case, they will have to change, and the change will come harder for them, and I am at risk and vulnerable during that time as their friend). Anyway, my very long-winded POINT? My point is that I believe there are areas in life where the work of healing is done COMPANIONABLY (each partner remains open to the other's growth) but SEPARATELY (some stuff is done solo, because it is one's own crap from before the partner that one is *truly* dealing with, as well as the *new* harm within the relationship that has stemmed from the old stuff that has nothing to do with the relationship).
Sigh. Words just get in the way some days.
Anyway, what I was trying to say with that last one? I am able to share some of the "bullet points" of my own work with Mr. M. He seems able to share some his bullet points with me. I have begun trying to not give him all the gory details of my healing because (duh!) he's got his own work to do, and is slowly doing it, and I can see evidence of the fact that he's doing this work.
I'm giving up now!
I love you, and I will pray that you find balance for yourself and your relationship in this teeter-totter of learning to be good companions and partners to each other, as well as learning to be healthier inside. I'm so proud of you for trying; I *do* know how scary a land it is to try at all, let alone to hope for a future where you *both* are in good health, personally and communally. J