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Post by timoteiy on Aug 25, 2007 15:16:41 GMT -5
AMAININFULL We posted at the same time! I have been both "reactive" and "guilt-laden" in response to my wife's tirades. The thing is, that both respnses served to legitimise her anger. If I reacted with anger I would be no better, and if I apologised for my part, I would only give righteousenss to her anger. If I gave her more power, i.e. agreed to letting her have her way, I taugh her the advantages inherent in having rage or anger.
You are right, I do not have to prove that I am an abuser, she does. I am less worried about the legal implications because I have more faith in the legal proccess (which may be naive on my part) than I am on the gossip which my wife is so famous for. My counter for that is to keep less secrets, I am only as sick as my deepest secret, or so they say, anyways.
For instance, just a few minutes ago I phone my kids and I find out my daughter is playing with a little girl that is in the family where I am staying now. They live several kilometers apart and her mother or father would be at my wife's. THese people have had the good will to let me stay in their motorhome on their property until it starts to freeze, at least 2 months or so away.
When I addmitt to a need to deal with this addiction, my wife says to me, "How do I know you're not going to turn into a pedofile? Its a progressing disease you know!"
I felt like saying, " BECAUSE I DON"T ABUSE PEOPLE THE WAY YOU DO", but I bit my lip. She would of course point out the implicit abuse of viewing porn, and we'd have another he said/she said argument. I have to remember,'self disclosure instead of blame'.
Anyways, it wouldn't take much for my wife to make these kind of remarks to the couple I am staying with and there would be this reason come up why I couldn't stay there. In fact, this is allready in the minds of the people I am staying with anyways, because they know the situation from my wife as it is. It wouldn't take much for them to get freaked out. I know, because I am a father too and it wouldn't be any different for me. This I beleive to be a realistic assessment.
My paycheck will not gop into my account for another 10 days or so and then the maximum ammount of payments that I can handle will come out of that account. The credit card is in her name and I will be going to a lawyer with the first intention of legally putting a cap on the debt and relieving myself of the responsibility for any further debts she inccurs. I finally reviewed her spending and I can see several ways that she can save, many things like internet, cable, a cell phone that she rings up $100 or so dollars a month when travelling 5 minutes away from a free land line phone, trips out of town. I am not going to sacrifice anymore than I am because I am living homeless, and all I ask for is food money. I will pay debts but if she can't make more sacrifices she'll have to incur HER OWN DEBT. Wow, that feels so liberating to say that in capital letters. Like a spiritual experience. When she lambasted me for 'controling her' when I wouldn't instantly sign in to her new, (again) financing scheme, saying "this is the last f#@*#ing time you will be able to tell me what to do or control my life, I should have known right then and there that there was no plans in the works for her making changes to actually lessen debts instead of increasing them. I have a cousellor I see once a week and I am seeking out an atmosphere for safe self disclosure. This is a very time consuming process.
Thanks Amaninfull. I have to go now .
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Post by amaninfull on Aug 27, 2007 12:46:27 GMT -5
It sounds like you are taking the right steps, difficult though they may be.
I have faith that people will ultimately discern other peoples' true character. I would rather trust an addict who is honest about his problem and is clearly dealing with it, than someone who practices character assassination and has unchecked violent tendencies. All you can do is hold your head up.
I am glad to hear you are seeing a counselor. This should be an invaluable resource as you move forward.
Regarding your financial duties toward your wife: it seems like she has made the choice to significantly reduce the intimacy of your relationship; it seems logical to significantly reduce the amount of financial support you provide her. It sounds like she is an able-bodied person who is capable of earning her own money. Many mothers work. Your financial responsibilities, it seems to me, lie with your children and yourself.
Hang in there.
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Post by timoteiy on Aug 27, 2007 12:57:18 GMT -5
I have been circling my addiction for quite a while now, taking little hits in the form of trying to see if there is something racy to see on a T.V. , some sexual passage in a romance novel, picture in a women's magazine, etc. This is behavior that typified the greatest portion of time wasted by my addictive hunger before taking part in recovery. No change there. The only change is that I have not acted out fully, with either porn of masterbation. And there I haven't broken any records neither-- 2 weeks sober, then a slip. another week, a slip. Now 8 days (mabe more and I perhaps should atempt to keep a better record of this-- I don't get too excited about it like others because I am more concerned with what is going inside of me.)
I'm staying at a friend's from work while he is away with his wife all week on vacation. His 16 year old son is here, and comes and goes, stays up late at night when I am sleeping . I got the weekend off work because my interm trainer left on holiday and my regular trainer was still on bereavement leave (his father died) I spent alot of time with some guys from work and made some money finishing up a huge pile of firewood and selling it. I can't believe that it has come to living hand to mouth after a life time of making good money. I have been avoiding my wife because she is a trigger to extreme dispair and a return to active addiction. I have a motor home to stay in for 2 months until it freezes and the friend who lets me stay there is abit of a double agent in that my wife gets information from him about me. I am afraid that when I have to deal with the financial aspects of the seperation and my wife gets back into trying to control the issue she will be talking to the wife where I am staying about my addiction. She has allready stated that 1. the addiction is a progressive disease 2. child sexual abuse is a progression in the disease and 3. She doesn't trust me. All she would have to do is have a little talk with the mother of 3 small kids where I am staying and there would be some good reason arise that I couldn't stay there. It makes my blood boil thinking about it.
But I have to make some serious moves to curtail her spending and remove myself from the responsibility of her increasing the debt load. She wants me to re-finance (put off the inevitability of paying off the debts), and says that it is so that I can afford a place to stay. The reality is that if I only payed what I was legally required to for child support under the laws, I would be able to live okay, and start to deal with the debts, which are legally half hers anyways. the real issue is that she still wants to live in the fancy house with the car that I still pay for. She has a job,which she can do full time instead of part time, is capable of working, and I am willing to share the responsibility of the children. She is angry that her life should be interupted . Not unlike the denial that we have before the come into recovery for this addiction, she won't face the reality of her compulsive spending. The decorations, the constant 'need' to renovate the house, to spend spend spend in the face of what it cost us in terms of debt and stress, quality of life is unbelievable. People just shake their heads, when they view the wreckage of that. I went crazy tring to provide her with that. In my sickness I had resolved to renovate the house into a breathtaking palace that all her friends would be jeaolous of; I went to work, came home and renovated 24/7- no time for family, or anything. All life was was go to work come home to work, spend everything on the renovations. Kids neglected, wife hypercritical of my work, my nerves constantly fried. Mad because no one came to the rescue. Mad at myself because I didn't make a stand. Mad because my wife has the card of my addiction to play to try to get what she wants.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT:I am tring to get recovery and at the same time not procrastinate on the issue of my rights. Because of my situation I am forced to try to deal with my addiction in a much more public way than alot of people, including myself, would be comfortable with. I know that no matter what my wife would say about hoping I recover and all that, THERE IS A BOTTOM LINE THERE. If she is to get a reality check about her actions-- she will protect her denial/lifestyle/opinion/control with whatever means available. My biggest evidence is that when she flips out she will blurt out these threats explicitly, although she back-pedals and denies that she has any mal-intent when she is calmed down.
In reality, all the details of my porn and mb addiction have leaked out anyways. This is a small town and my wife is the most skilled social gossiper I have ever known. It has only contributed to my isolation and given her power over the money situation to give her the power of shame. I have worked long and hard all my life to give away all the fruits of my labour on account of shame. This brings the matter of self-disclosure into an arena where the stakes are extremely high.
I heard here about "healthy disclosure". I know that term has a double edged sword to it because I am given the option of defining what is 'healthy'. I could stave off any disclosure indefinitely with this option.
I'm just trying to work things out here. Most of the people that my wife has told about how I ruined our life and about my porn and masterbation, except her mother, aren't really involved that much that they would put themselves out on a limb to help someone. There are many what I called above" double agents"- those that tend to agree with who ever they are talking with and don't care enough to risk making a stand on their own. There are the church types, some who gossip under the pretense that they helping and praying but they are pretty much the same because they wouldn't stick their neck out like they would for someone they love. Then there are the multitude of prejudices- the ones that you make aliances with based on a mutual judgement- Those caught in the web of resentment- victims and abusers. As a person who has trouble with coping with the honest morality and workings of the world, and who missed out on a great deal of the feeling of being unconditionally loved all my life, I am in constant need to consider all thes things, and to stop being dissapointed time and time again when I re-discover that the world is not my mother!
All the above have in common that they are the anti-thesis of self-diclosure
By that I mean that they focus all their attention on what others are doing wrong and are clueless as to the intimate sharing of an inner life. An addict in his addiction is one of them as is the S.O. There isn't much difference between them in this regard. I have learned that there are many people much like I was when active in my addiction who feel there is too much to lose in being completely honest. My situation makes me feel that there is too much to lose by not being honest.
To gain the strength for recovery, to help my children recover, to get through this mess This honesty and openness is critical. I haven't committed any sexual crimes here. I keep coming back to this because I have no choice but to deal with it or live a life of misery. In alll honesty it is fear and not bravery that compels me to think of this.
So I have to, in addition to dealing with the wreckage of my past, forge ahead into a realm of pushing my comfort zone and opening up to people that are involved in the abovementioned 'anti-thesis' to recovery.
I can gain much strength from those here and elsewhere that are so earnestly trying to get recovery from their sexual addiction that they are willing to open up and share their inner processes in a safe environment.
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Post by timoteiy on Aug 28, 2007 9:08:01 GMT -5
Last night I viewed some porn for about 5 minutes and had to stop myself from mb. All I can say is that I am not caught on the addiction cycle although I am very close.I I stopped my bottom line behaviour so I reset my date. I feel very disappointed with myself but I know better that to beat myself up about it because that's apart of the addictive cycle for me.
It is amazing because I had such a wonderful day yesterday with the kids, got alot of exercise and socialized, and spent alot of time here. The addict in me somehow convinced me that I was better and deserved a 'reward'. It is the first time since I started this that a slip came after a lift in my mood, rather than it medicating distress.
I had extended periods of sobriety without being involved in any recovery/healing program or counselling. These were not particularly great periods, although they were better than being caught in the web of acting out.
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Post by amaninfull on Aug 28, 2007 16:45:55 GMT -5
Dear Timoteiy,
Sounds like you're really struggling with acting out, which is understandable. Sounds like you managed to stop acting out before it went too far. Sounds like you have a realistic assessment of where you're at regarding your addiction.
I think you are right about disclosure: given what you know about your wife, you may be safer disclosing more than most people would be comfortable with. Hold fast to the rock that you have done nothing illegal nor caused any material harm. Remember, too, that your wife had and continues to have a choice about how to relate to you. Any spouse of an admitted SA might need to express anger, but some choose to stand by the side of the SA and help them through recovery. She seems to have chosen to latch on to her anger and has taken steps to alienate you from your support network. The degree to which her life has been interrupted is partly her choice. This seems quite clear to me.
A consequence of her separating herself from you could reasonably be your choosing to separate yourself from her. I don't know anyone, under these circumstances, who would blame you for ceasing to subsidize, with your hard-earned pay and good credit, her expensive lifestyle.
You may do well to assume that your wife will follow through on her threats. Be clear about where you stand. Gather around you all the support you can muster. Behave with dignity and out of love for your children, and then let the chips fall where they may. You may be surprised at what your life could become.
Hang in there.
AMIF
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Post by LookingUp on Aug 28, 2007 17:51:19 GMT -5
I agree with AMIF. Your wife has been hurt; however, she has not chosen to take the high road but to hang onto the anger and bitterness and try to hurt back. She is not practicing "turn the other cheek." Now you can choose to detach with love from her abuse - for your own sanity and so you can be there for your children in whatever way seems appropriate for you to do.
What a potential gift you have to give your children. To let them see you take the high road, to have strong boundaries, and to be gentle but firm in assuring the fall-out from her poor choices don't affect you un-needlessly.
I would like to caution you..... it seems she has made the focus of her life you and what she perceives as your faults; please be cautious that you don't do the same. She has hurt you, she has not been fair or even humane in her dealings with you..... but try to not make her behavior the focus of your life. Put your focus on you and your recovery - those things you have control over.
LookingUp
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Post by timoteiy on Aug 28, 2007 22:17:16 GMT -5
Thanks for your help amif and Lu
Yes AMIF I'm struggling. I actually have had the comfort of a home to live in this week. Its given me the oportunity to isolate more. I've been more active though, and more sociable. My first slip here was during the most miserable period. Now I have to watch out when feeling better too. I like feeling better though. I don't want to ruin it by getting caught in the addictive cycle.
I haven't done enough towards the seperation . It causes me pain, even getting the information together. I know from this disease that avoiding doing things I need to do in order to avoid emotional pain gets me in a lot of trouble.
LU- I have been trying to dis-engage myself from the blaming dialogue that I have had for years with my wife. I can physically seperate myself from her , but there is still an internal dialogue going on. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT though, and I have learned that blaming only gets me back in the disease. This very thing has been on my mind alot lately. I can't completely remove myself from people that chose blame as opposed to self-disclosure. I just have to learn to guard my spiritual health by not engaging in it.
Blame is much more prevalent where I live than self-disclosure.
Most of the time we're looking at other's contributions to a problem or lack of contribution to a solution than we are to our own.
When it comes to emotionally charged issues like the effects of this porn addiction, self-disclosure can be like opening up your jacket and letting the blamer pick where he wants to put the knife in.
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Post by amaninfull on Aug 30, 2007 2:05:59 GMT -5
"Blame is much more prevalent where I live than self-disclosure. "
Blame is much more prevalent everywhere than self-disclosure. Your example already is an inspiration to others on this board, and it will be an inspiration to others "where you live". Bank on it.
You are doing uncommonly excellent work at an uncommonly challenging time. Way to go. Lean on that counselor and on anyone you trust. Now is the time to call in favors. You can repay them when you get on your feet. You don't need to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders.
Hang in there.
AMIF
ps - thanks for dropping by my journal : )
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Post by timoteiy on Aug 30, 2007 23:42:07 GMT -5
Amaninfull
I read the good stuff that's going on in your life now and I can say with certainly that your words are gratitude in action.
I have alot of things going on in my life now that make me just stick my head in the sand and hide. I can't do this on my own. TO everyone who has posted encouraging words and good advise: You are a blessing to me. It keeps me coming back until I hopefully finally get it.
I have been envisioning a new life for myself finally. All me other dreams of 'having'a nice home, wife and kids just got sabatoged by this addiction. My thoughts keep grinding away at a solution. I see some hope in getting a new life now. I have healthier options.
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Post by LookingUp on Aug 31, 2007 5:26:05 GMT -5
I see some hope in getting a new life now. I have healthier options. YAY! That's great news.
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Post by amaninfull on Aug 31, 2007 14:55:39 GMT -5
I second LU - that is great news.
Support from others is critical to you at this juncture. We on this site are so limited as to how we can help. That's why I continue to encourage you to make full use of your counselor, and to reach out to anyone you trust and let them know what you're going through.
Hang on to those visions of a new life. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. One day you will look up and realize you have created a healthy, happy new life for yourself. It happened to me - it can happen to you.
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Post by rockwell on Aug 31, 2007 15:14:32 GMT -5
timoteiy,
I have not had a chance to really read through your journal yet, but I can see that you are going through tough times and I wanted to give you my support and encourage you. You are not alone! I will get in touch with you by PM soon. Take care.
rockwell
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Post by timoteiy on Sept 2, 2007 10:49:47 GMT -5
I have been isolated way too much this week. This board is the only interaction I have had that is personal. Last night an Aunt phoned me. Her family was the best inluence I had when I was a teenager. She said she would sent me some money to get the lawyer, I am gratefull. She also went on about how apalled everyone in her family was listening to my wife complain about me to them about everything. I have to be able to seperate that from my addiction: as Looking up said, I can't get on the pity pot and end up spiralling down into my addiction.
Today I have to move back into the motorhome and go to work. Sunday. My job makes no difference between weekend and weekday, or day or night. Sometimes I go to work for 40 hours sometimes for 12. I've been home as little as 8 hours and as much as 60. I'm havein trouble adjusting to that. For over 20 years I could count the times on one hand that I stayed up past midnight. I went to be early and got up early. I went to work at 5 a.m. and sometimes earlier. Its all thrown out of wack now. Its a serious problem with my addiction. Its also a serious problem with my goals.
I need to straighten my act out and get direction towards my goals of getting the seperation straightened out, getting a home for myself. Short term I need to get an agreement with my wife on the debts, and child support. Long term is finishing the house renovations and selling the house. Goals, priorities etc. No. 1 goal today is sobriety.
Insomnia. Some of the things I start to realise about the wreckage of my life and the effects of my addiction are disturbing me big time. I am uncoiling like a spring at times. I go back and forth between denial and shifting blame. Having to deal with my wife and negotiate is difficult. If I don't agree with her terms she inevitable blasts me about my addiction and attempts to weaken me with shame. I need to get an agreement in place so I can normalise my life as best as possible. I think it is best to stay away from the people that associate with her because she spends alot of time talking to them about my addiction and my craziness. I am not strong enough to turn the other cheek. I allways get into the defensive mode.
I think I will get a proper planner, break down the goals into small increments and try to get myself going. I need the clearer thinking of recovery time.
I have to get my kids into some form of counselling and get help for them.
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Post by LookingUp on Sept 2, 2007 12:23:48 GMT -5
I'm so thankful for your aunt. Not only for the $$ but also for the validation. I'm so glad you got to hear that from somebody who you love.
Rather then negotiate with your wife - why not let your attorney handle her attorney - it may save you a LOT of stress and drama-scenes? Will she file or will you? I'm so sorry you're going through al that.
LookingUp
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Post by amaninfull on Sept 3, 2007 15:41:01 GMT -5
Timoteiy,
Not a lot of time today, but I just wanted to say a couple of things: 1. HANG IN THERE, man. No matter what you have to do, just put one foot in front of the other every day. People care about you. 2. Find an attorney you trust and a counselor you trust and lean on them. Heavily. They are on your side. I absolutely agree with LookingUp: let your attorney negotiate. Your wife, as far as I can see, has not shown herself to be at all a reasonable person to deal with. My suggestion: don't deal with her. 3. I agree with you - don't spend time with people that your wife has recruited to her side. That is a recipe for becoming demoralized. You need nothing but support. 4. If there's anything at all you can do to stabilize your work life, do it. This would help a lot.
Again: hang in there! You may not know it, but you're making real progress in the right direction.
AMIF
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