|
Post by whoami on Aug 14, 2007 19:22:06 GMT -5
That hits me like a ton of bricks tonight. Because sadly, that is so true. And maybe sadder still, I don't think ANYthing H does could make me stop loving him. And for so many years he was immune to being hurt...by anything but his addiction. And it makes me sad, that you are hanging on to a last glimmer of hope It just sounds like way too much involved with the dynamics of your relationship, (not to mention your PA) to hold on to much hope. And I'm not even sure why you would want to? It shows you are a caring man, but you are also struggling to not get defamation of character, ruined reputation by any one your wife is in contact with? As a totally crushed SO, I feel funny saying this. But I never wished my H to drop dead, never wished to ruin him, never sought validation or vindication in social circles....only in the "conversations" between him and me. And I'm trying to grasp that your W knew of your shortcomings but chose to stay and let her anger grow? (Somehow the word shortcomings falls short, but) wasn't this her own choice, to stay, knowing? I don't want to open a hornet's nest, but just want to suggest you concentrate on you first tim, and kids a close second. Don't mean to be trite but I thank you for showing me, I have things to be thankful for, that most folks couldn't begin to imagiine. Take care, and put you first, your kids close by....
|
|
|
Post by LookingUp on Aug 14, 2007 19:29:38 GMT -5
I am the focus of scorn. I have seen the rage and violence and now, as I admit to my wrongdoings, she says, "BECAUSE I CAUGHt you, YOU A-HLE", and feels exponentially more righteous in this anger. I need to talk about this over and over and start the grieving process. I read an excellent book, "How to Act Right When Your Spouse Acts Wrong" - it is geared towards Christians. One of the things she said was that no matter how sinful our spouse behaved, if we choose to live in self-righteousness - then we're just as sinful, if not more so. It was quite an eye opener for me and helped me find a bit of compassion and humility... except for the grace of God go I. I am praying for you and your wife: Father God, Please bind timoteiy's will to your will, his mind to your mind, his heart to your heart, his behavior to your behavior, his desires to your desires, his emotions to your emotions, his thoughts to your thoughts, his hands to do the work You've called him to do and his feet to walk in the paths where you've called him. As he grieves the losses he's facing, please let him be like Job - who at the end of the grieving not only received a double portion of material things; received the blessing or being head of his family; and was twice as close to you, Father God, as he was before his tribulation. Please help Mrs. timoteiy learn to forgive and to hold compassion in her heart; help her let go of the resentments and focus on You and not on her pain. Please bind her will to your will, her mind to your mind, her heart to your heart, her behavior to your behavior, her desires to your desires, her emotions to your emotions, her thoughts to your thoughts, her hands to do your work and her feet to walk in the paths where you've called her. In Jesus' Name. AmenLookingUp
|
|
|
Post by timoteiy on Aug 18, 2007 17:07:20 GMT -5
THANKS WHOAMI I think that the 'dynamic' of my marriage is one which is misunderstood if one only looks at it from the perspective of me or my wife. In other words, we have been so locked in a battle of who is right and who is good, that the real truth is obscured.
I am an addict who has white knuckled and slipped continuously during my marriage. My wife has lost trust of me, she has self esteem issues relating to it etc. She is by any account a person prone to uncontrollable rage. She becomes extremely verbally abusive to me and the kids. She has on many occassions become violent and done crazy things. Her family background is full of this behaviour. I actually cringe when I see that look in her eyes.
In this forum, I see the need for SO's to confirm and be validated for what they have been feeling. Obviously that is important for they need to know that they haven't been crazy all these years. I have tryed to validate my wife in discussions on the phone. I feel that I need to allow her that. But it also triggers abusive rage from her. I find it very hard to give these re-assurances to her and then have her all down every physical mental or emotional defect I have. So I keep my distance. I have to refrain from any decisions about wether there is a future to our marriage and about legal matters, what is best for the kids etc., because I am not yet in a good state of mind and I have this huge training program to finish. I don't need to rock any boat at this time and start my wife off in another fit of rage as soon as I initiate change. I will have to soon enough though, because I can't survive on the street in a town that gets an average snowfall of 19 feet, and I she hasn't given me even enough money to eat, saying that's all there is. ( I could take my paycheck at any time, as well as impose limits on her spending and relieve myself of any responsibility for her increasing debts)
LOOKING UP
Thank you for the prayer, that was very heart felt. I have very slowly started to get back into the world from a scarey isolation from the last month. I have a few more people I am begining to talk to and I am doing better at my training. I need to keep from acting out and develop a healthier outlook on life, getting more exercise and wholesome socializing and fun. I haven't yet found much use with the religion thing. This is because ther isn't anyone to relate to there. I need to fight this isolating tendency by connecting with sincere people in recovery, that understand personally the inner struggles that I am going through. That seems to work to keep me from acting out , and lifts my spirits.
|
|
|
Post by amaninfull on Aug 22, 2007 12:55:49 GMT -5
Sometimes when you let someone go, they are free to find a different perspective on what you mean to them.
I want to point out an undertone of low self-esteem that appears sometimes in your posts (e.g. "I can't hold a candle to her.") In order to really heal, at some point you may need to accept the possibility that you are a perfectly fine human being, no better or worse than the rest of us, who is suffering from an addiction, as are millions of others (whether to porn, alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, etc.) Again, I strongly recommend connecting with a confidante who has *only* your interests in mind - a therapist would be a good possibility.
Yours, AMIF
|
|
|
Post by LookingUp on Aug 22, 2007 18:51:27 GMT -5
I'm glad you're fighting the isolation. You're still in my prayers.
Hope things are going well for you.
LookingUp
|
|
|
Post by timoteiy on Aug 24, 2007 15:14:37 GMT -5
Tis mrning I finally got my wife to bring me the bills. I just wanted to look at them and make my own decisions. She had other ideas. Our first face to face meeting in a month. I just wanted to get the bills so could review the situation before setting up a legal seperation. She wanted an immediate agreement in regards to re-financing for more available living money; she told me what a lawyrer told her in regards to her rights to child support, spousal support- it amounted to 3/4 of my take home pay. She seemed to be threatening and suggesting what I could do, like give the house up to her, move out of down etc. She wants full custody of the children. She several times lambasted me for being a 'jerk off' freak. I just stood my ground and said I needed to look over the bills. She was attempting to intimidate me with shame about my addiction, depression, etc. I ended up phot-copying the bills, getting her to give me some cash to live on and listening to the verbal assault up until I got the money in my hands. Before I left I basically told her that she obviously was looking to play hardball so was willing to play. I'm not going to give everything up the way she wants obviously. She has it in her mind that I could give her the house and move out f town with the shirt on my back and send child support while also giving her sole custody. I have no choice but to fight, or remain a homeless bum.
|
|
|
Post by LookingUp on Aug 24, 2007 16:07:02 GMT -5
Good for you for fighting for what's your half.
I agree that what you did was wrong; but you've also chose to get sober and she's chosen to not stand you by while that happens. Glad you didn't let her verbal abuse get you down - that's terrific of you to detach from that. I know how painful that is as I get that from my mom and use to get that from my ex (both pre and post divorce)
I'm shocked you're still letting her have the full paycheck. When will you change that - so she can come asking you for a hand-out? It won't be long and those woods are going to be too cold to live in.
LookingUp
|
|
|
Post by LookingUp on Aug 24, 2007 16:12:39 GMT -5
In some states and provinces, a parent who does "parent alienation" can loose custody. Thus, if she is badmouthing you to the children, she may eventually loose custody if you choose to push that when you're back on your feet. Thus, I'd highly recommend making very detailed records. Things like when you were to get the kids - when she actually allowed them to see you if there's a discrepancy of time; if the children said anything that made you think she may be badmouthing you within their hearing. When you were to drop them off and the time you actually did. When you were allowed to call and if you called on time and if she then refused to let the kids talk. If the children said anything that would make you think she is badmouthing you to them. Often detailed records like this are a pain to keep - but it may help you tremendously in the fight for your children. Here's a site for fathers www.deltabravo.net/ I seem to think you're from Canada? If so, here's a couple recommended sites that could help you decide what you need to ask a lawyer so you can keep time down - thus fees down: www.familylawcentre.com/www.ottawadivorce.com/Here's information on Parent Alienation and Parent Alienation Syndrom: www.parentalalienation.com/PASdirectory.htmloveofchildren.info/My%20Pages/PAS_sectndir.htmlAlthough my children were independent, young adult when we divorced, their father and paternal grandmother PASd them - so it was 3 year for the oldest and 4 before the youngest would talk to me, not throw away checks I sent them, etc. LookingUp
|
|
|
Post by amaninfull on Aug 24, 2007 20:18:14 GMT -5
Timoteiy,
As a former victim of spousal abuse (and it was, like yours, the reverse of the normal roles) I know exactly how difficult it is to stand your ground in the face of an onslaught. To neither react in righteous rage nor knuckle under to the demands. And I commend you to the depth of my heart - well done, my friend.
You cannot know what kinds of healing you have set in motion by doing that. You're still standing. You will have the strength of your convictions next time you engage in reasonable behavior and are met with unreasonable fury. And - this is important to realize - you are handing her the tools for her own liberation from this poisonous cycle, whether or not she chooses to pick them up.
If she is getting an attorney, you should get an attorney. It sounds like she may go well beyond the bounds of reason (what is good for her and your kids) to try and punish you. In communication with you, her attorney may bring the full force of his/her knowledge of the law, and sound very official and intimidating, but in the final analysis they are being paid to get your wife what she wants. Only your attorney will protect your interests.
Conduct yourself with dignity, know where you stand, know that whatever your trespasses, you are a human being and no human being deserves abuse. None. If she continues this sort of behavior, your children will ultimately recognize which of you acts with dignity and mercy, and which of you does not.
Whatever you need to do to be strong, do it.
I'm with you all the way.
AMIF
|
|
|
Post by timoteiy on Aug 25, 2007 10:30:22 GMT -5
Amaninfull and Looking-up I am so greatful for your responses! I was suicidal yesterday after meeting with my wife. I found out I wasn't going to work right away and ended up at a friends house. His wife gave me a ride after she had an argument with him at his business place and allmost got in an accident twice. I felt so discouraged about relationships in general. They were arguing about money. I had dinner with them. My son came there with two flat tires on his bike; I fixed the flats and their son's gearchanger. My wife's mother was at her place and made him come home. I have got to focus on my kids. I need to get my head straightened out enough to help them.
Looking-up yes I am from Canada. I have been to your end of the country once when I was 19. The Newfies were so friendly and down to earth! I loved it there. I My next paycheck will come into a new account I set up for myself . I will still not have much money to live on, because the bills are unreal!!!! There is loan after loan, maxed out credit card and maxed out overdrafts. We took home after taxes and benefits 4800 dollars last month and there is only a few hundred dollars left over. For so many years my wife would start into badmouthing me and criticising me everytime I asked to go over the bills and I ended up leaving it all to her and just asking for an allowance. SHE STILL DOES THAT, and I get blamed for the financial situation. Its not my fault though. She has been spending major amounts of money with the reasoning that she was intitled to for years. My crime is trying to get a businees started on the side fr more long term financial stability and thenn being too busy to get it going completely. (More money was spent, without the payback) She can't budget and wait and she wants the kind of decorated house just like in the magazines I have been blamed for ruining everything .
I just read Patrick Carnes "Out of the Shadows" and it was VERY informative. For instance, I started to understand the dynamics of my family life. The above example of blaming, Carnes states, "intensifies the addictive system", as apposed to self-disclosure, which "interrupts the addicitve system. This really sheds a light on the difficulty in trying to cope battle this addiction while feeling so under attack. so in the midst of this battle I know I HAVE TO GET BACK TO SELF DISCLOSURE, BUT ITS SOOOOOO HARD TO DO WHEN YOU FEEL UNDER ATTACK. I had about 20 cords of birch wood that I was going to split up and sell at the house ad sell. I allready had buyers and a guy I work with agreed to bring a hydraulic splitter. I asked my wife if I could come and do it tommorow and that I would give her the money to pay bills. She wouldn't answer, but countered with the question of wheter I was going to agree with her finance deal. Incredible. I'm going to go up there tommorow, split the wood and sell it and just go and directly pay some more bills. I am in the motorhome now. I have agreed to look after someone elses house (house sit) and watch over their 16 year old son for 9 days while they are on holiday. I hope the kid is not a real haywire kid and I have to become disciplinarian. If I was still living in the tent it would be a real blessing. Actually, I should think it to be a blessing ayway, first of all that they trust me enough to do that. I will do my best.
|
|
|
Post by timoteiy on Aug 25, 2007 11:14:25 GMT -5
Looking- up I am going to look into this parent alienation thing and look at those websites you recommend. It makes my situation very tenuous though, because when I fight back for the right to take part in my children's upbringing I have to be able to publicly admitt that I am a sex addict, and I am fightin a compulsion for sexual fantasy, porn and masterbation. ecause these are the grounds that she will attempt to alienate me from the children. I have to prove that I am not a sex abuser. IT will get ugly.
Amaninfull, You say you were a male victim of abuse. You are a very helpfull for me. I heard you say before that you felt you deserved it. There were times when I let my wife actually beat me physically (fists, objects etc) because of my low self esteem. There were times I held her down and told her to stop and ran the risk of being labelled an abuser (she also works at a women's shelter) And there are many times that I just left the house in a hurry to avoid hurt. Do I deserve it? How about my goddam kids? Watching her smash the windows in the house, my son running down the street in bare feet and pyjamas in the snow when she flies into a rage. TIME AND TIME AGAIN THIS HAS HAPPENED. I'M NOT LYING AND I DON"T TAKE THE BLOODY BLAME FOR THAT. I have had this addiction and it has been a dismal existance to live with me caught in the 'cycle' of addiction. I understand that. But that's no bloody excuse for abuse. All the support in the world is not going to do any good unless the truth is told.
I couldn't sleep last night, and I got to thinking about the harsh things and threats my wife had made today. I phoned her and told her that it would ot do her or the kids any good ot to do something about her abusive nature. I have had it with the attacks, followed by the denial that the attacks even existed. I'm not so insane that 'm imagining this reality, and I have many people, most notably my kids, as witnesses.My wife will not be able to keep my kids faithfull to that lie forever. She will not same me into the poorhouse NOR BACK INTO MY ADDICTION. I am normally a very easy going person but this has me angry today. I need to get a stable legal agreement in place so I can focus on getting better and helping my kids.
Mabe standing up for myself in a real way, while concurrantly admitting my own 'trespasses' is getting better. Thank-you.
|
|
|
Post by whoami on Aug 25, 2007 11:46:49 GMT -5
Hi Timoteiy, I'm glad to see you letting your feelings and anger out. I think when we don't, it is bad for the depression, makes it worse.
You are in a motorhome now, do you have computer access or do you still have to go to town for that? My computer got hit by lightening, so I had to go to the library for a day. The hour they give you sure flies by!
It looks like LU gave you some good resources which I hope will help you. And you have tremendous understanding in AMIF. I will remember you in prayers, and how there is a need for the real truth to be told up there.
Keep talking it out, and God Bless, Whoami
|
|
|
Post by LookingUp on Aug 25, 2007 11:50:35 GMT -5
Great update. I'd like to make a suggestion: Please talk to your credit card company (bank, whatever) and get them to give her her own credit card in her own name and then have all the other cards destroyed so she can not run them up. Then if she continues to run up bills, it will be against HER not against you. I did that a few years before I divorced ex (was hoping that separating the money would help us stay together with his big spending).
I think you're really smart to pay the bills rather than hand over the money. That way you know it's going where it needs to go.
I'm sorry for the abuse. I'm especially sorry the children have seen that. If the time would come that you would need to fight for your children (if her abuse would go from you to the children); would your neighbors stand on your side since they've seen the kids run away in their night clothes while she was smashing windows?
Good for you. This is a great boundary and a wonderful goal.
LookingUp
|
|
|
Post by amaninfull on Aug 25, 2007 13:14:01 GMT -5
Timoteiy,
Hang in there, my friend.
You are quite right to begin recognizing that your wife's acting out is most definitely abuse. Because I was both reactive (I would scream back and occasionally throw things - not at her) and guilt-laden (bringing an end to her tirades by meekly apologizing for any- and everything I'd done "wrong"), I did not recognize her abuse for what it was. It was only when I was able to become non-reactive, but simply stand there and say what I needed to say, that it became clear to me that I was being abused. This would take the form of screaming, put-downs, constant threats of divorce, destructive acts like throwing away her wedding ring, destruction of property (burning things, smashing things, dumping dinner on my car-seat), throwing things at me, kicking in doors, and, on a couple of occasions, physical abuse. I was able to become non-reactive only after I had begun seeing a therapist (at her suggestion!)
I can understand your feelings of anger toward her. They are quite natural, and it is probably good for you to experience them. It is also important, in your words and actions toward her, to come from a place of dignity, calm (fake it if necessary!), and self-respect. This will stand you in good stead with your children, with the law, and, most importantly, with yourself.
She does NOT have you over a barrell because you are an admitted SA. You are a *recovering* SA, much like a recovering alcoholic. You will be able to find written material by experts to support this parallel. Furthermore (and probably unlike an alcoholic), aside from damaging your relationship with your wife (and it really does seem to me that she was looking for something to slam you with), your addiction can not be shown to have resulted in material harm to anyone. She may claim that you showed the potential to be a sex offender, but she will be able to give no proof. You do NOT have to prove that you are not a sex abuser: the burden is on her to prove that you ARE - if she can't, it will be slander on her part, of the worst sort.
You are right to assert control of the financial situation. If you can, simply document what you have said here: that leaving the finances in her control has resulted in massive debt, and that, for your children's sake, you have taken control of how *your* money is spent. You need to make sure that the kids still have enough, but it sounds like she is an able-bodied person, so you should not have to provide her with an allowance. Do consult an attorney as soon as you can. I would not give her the money to pay the bills. I would pay the bills myself, if I were you. (If she will not turn them over, contact the utilities and credit card companies yourself and ask for the balance.) Do cancel any cards that are in both your names - she has the potential to ruin your credit for the next 10 years.
A person cannot safely self-disclose when they are under attack. Self-disclosure is only possible in an atmosphere of trust. Your wife is not someone you can trust right now - she does not have your bests interests at heart. Please find a therapist or counselor - you should be able to find one for free or cheap through a local mental health agency.
Stay off porn. White-knuckle it if you have to: right now you're in survival mode, for yourself and your kids. Later, when things start to settle into a new life, you can do the work on yourself that you will need to do.
You are exhibiting amazing strength in a very difficult situation, so I know that you will emerge from this into a better situation.
Don't give up on relationships: just four years after going through an incredibly challenging time in splitting up from my then-wife (she got even crazier during the split), I am newly married to a truly wonderful, loving person, and we are about to have a baby. If it happened to me, it can happen to you.
Hang in there, my friend.
AMIF
|
|
|
Post by timoteiy on Aug 25, 2007 13:53:38 GMT -5
Looking-up
Thanks. I am going through the proccess of making sure I am not responsible for any debts my wife incurs from the time we seperate. We will undoubtedly have to re-finance, but not in the way that she wants, because there wouldn't be enough equity in the house left to finish the renovations for the purpose of selling in the event of divorce. I feel abit of pressure to get it going now because we are in an insanely inflated real estate market in this town due to this massive ski-hill development. I can't see it lasting, because the credit crunch and falling real estate markets in the States is bound to make its way up here. I have to get all my homework on finances done now. There won't be much for my kids to live on otherwise.
SELF-DISCLOSURE. I need to get to that place again.
I have been battling the quick fantasy dipping into the addiction, allmost like seeing how close I can get to the fire before I get burned. I have another week without acting out but many of the subtle attempts of my addiction attempting to gain control again occur. One of the best indicator fro me is how I look at a woman. If I am not in the addiction I can look at her whole person and see her character or soal. I can make a connection with women just as I would men, not neccesarily treating them the same, but not carving them up into parts mentally in order to feed my addiction. If I am in my addiction, and especially if there is Porn involved, I feel the sickness travel with me when I am in daily life. I isolate from real human interaction, from meaningful relationships with people, only able to function well in a non-personal work/business environment. I steal "looks" and keep my thoughts to myself. I avoid eye contact more. I am not able to keep a good connection with my children. My low self esteem invites abuse, and the abuse justifies and strengthens a kind of epidemic shame. Something inside me offers defense against the shame in the form of my addiction. I find myself slipping in and out of a fog. Intense shame pushes my head and shoulders down.
Today I feel less influence from this addiction. I phoned my kids twice and I am still waiting for a phone call back from them. I think my wife is recoiling from my tongue lashing I gave her last night about her being so abusive. She will undoubtedly build he defenses, look for alies, and prepare for a counter -assault. If I look at it as if it were HER main addiction, RAGE, then I am the co-whatever, or S.O. in this case. I fall into the Righteous trap, another foothold for the addiction!
That brings me back to thinking about the Patrick Carnes statement, that blaming strengthens the addictive system, while self disclosure weakens it. But if my self disclosure prompted my wife to blaming me, I can still stay out of the addiction if I can figure out how not to feed into the mental and emotional downward spiral that results in slipping. It is extremely difficult, and at best now I can only avoid those situations from occuring too frequently.
The need for this king of "spiritual healing" is coming at a critical time. As I stated above, my wife has indicated that she wants the house and full custody of the children. That would leave me relatively poor right through to retirement. It would also not give me the ability to make the ammends to my children by helping them in coping with the effects of their dysfunctional family. (and I mean by my own self disclosure, not neccesarily of the acts of the addiction, but of the effects and emotional and spiritual states of the proccess of healing from it. ) My wife will attempting to use my addiction against me, both in a gossip way ( which she sees more as her support, her expression of righteous anger) , in a legal way, for limitting my visitation rights, for getting 100% custody of the children, and in a shame way, to make me feel like I deserve to live the rest of my life in a dismal way and ligitimise de-humanising me.
I have slowly been crawling out of a hole and I need to make sure that I don't do so with others without choosing safe outlets to keep this self disclosure, honesty, and choosing to break the bonds of this isolating addictive state.
|
|