Andy
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Posts: 233
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Post by Andy on Jan 22, 2007 9:30:35 GMT -5
Hiya JohnG,
Hows things? I get that feeling as well its like a tingling in the groin. A very real temptation, like an itch! But the same as an itch it soon goes away if you dont scratch it, where as if you do scratch it it just becomes more itchy. I can think of loads of things like that, i dont know why our boddies seem to want to make us do things that are not beneficial. Another one is if you get an insect bite. It becomes itchy, then if you itch it, it just gets worse!
So basically if we ignore the temptation to itch then the itch will get less itchy and will soon fade!
I will fight the itch with you John!
Me and my partner havent made love (or even kissed intimately) for about 3 years now (and we have only been together for about 3 and a half) To be fair i dont think we even made love before it was just sex. Im hoping that me beating this addiction might also give her a chance to want to be with me again. I dont want to expect that though, thats the hard thing, thats as big a challenge for me as the rest of this addiction. Not expecting. Ive been expecting for 3 years and the more expecting i do the less likely it became. I think i have been expecting the wrong thing from her. I am trying to get used to the idea that I may not be having sex for quite a long time but i am hoping that i will not MB for that length of time.
Anyway. I think you will be able to have a normal relationship without MB and it is your addiction telling you otherwise. That is what i believe and that is what you would tell me. We dont need to MB, I always thought we did, but i dont think we do! So lets just be strong and not. Not today not tomorrow or the next day. Lets just not MB anymore!
Be strong you can do it!
Sorry if i always end up talking about myself!
Again be strong
Take care
Andy
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Andy
Full Member
Posts: 233
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Post by Andy on Jan 22, 2007 9:33:35 GMT -5
When i said we hadnt kissed intimately, we have a couple of times in the past month. Not deep kisses but intimate non the less. Really nice.
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Post by JohnG on Jan 22, 2007 11:01:30 GMT -5
Thanks Andy.
I am glad to hear you are doing well, so to speak. My "itch" happens inside my head. That is where I feel it first and that is where I try to stop it. I feel myself either looking at a woman, or an ad on TV or in a magazine or the newspaper or any number of things like that, and I feel something in my head happen, like something waking up a little. If I can stop it there I usually have a very easy time. If I let it go further it gets harder.
As to MB - for me it is much easier to do it for 24 hours. I get overwhelmed when I think of "forever" - so I figure, ok I will just quit for 24 hours. I did that yesterday and it got me to today. Then, this morning, I decided to quit for another 24 hours. I can do 24 hours. ____________________________________________________________________________________
I called my sponsor a few minutes ago. It was really good to talk to him. He is ill with pneumonia and I told him that I would go over after lunch tomorrow to see him at home. He says he is bored and a little depressed and very tired.
We talked a little about my problem (the PA) and that felt really good. He already knew about it, but because I just stopped talking about it and gave the impression that all was ok he didn't know that it has been an issue again. He is a pretty "lite" sponsor. He doesn't push me at all which at times I have appreciated and at times I wish he would push me. What I think I really want is for him to do the steps for me - or make me do them. But this will only work (I think) if it comes from my own deep desire to do it.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 23, 2007 4:24:55 GMT -5
DAY 13
I am not superstitious but I still don't like the number 13.
Good thing that I have committed to meeting my sponsor later today. Then I am going to my AA meeting tonight. This morning I will listen to part two of the Carnes audio book. That is my plan for today.
I think for the next 24 hours I will not use P or MB. I can do that.
The last couple of days have been wierd. I can feel the thing right under the surface. I have been very diligent about blocking out images (mental and real) and keeping my thoughts clean. When the odd bad one rises to the surface I immediately stop it, force myself to think of something else. I also fight the voice that tries to discourage me by saying that it will never end. What to I lose by giving it a try? Waiting another 24 hours? Nothing. I only can lose if I don't try.
Anyway, I have been very aware that even when I am not actively fighting thoughts, the beast is right there under the surface. It would take about 60 seconds to let it out and unleash it. That is a very scary thought - I am that close to a slip always - about 60 seconds.
I have so much to learn and so much work to do. But what I have to do today is manageable. I have not set any goals for today that I cannot do. So why do I feel like whiniing, and saying, "but it is so hard..." Stop being a crybaby.
Ok. For the next 24 hours no whining either.
Good luck to all.
JohnG
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Post by choselife on Jan 23, 2007 8:35:55 GMT -5
A while back, I got big into the language I used when engaging in self-talk. Sometimes, I stray away from it, because I think it blocks me from getting to my true feelings. You used the word "hard". My association with that is somewhat pejorative. I like the word "challenging", its accurate and not at all pejorative. I probably picked it up from some Anthony Robbins book. It sounds like you are giving yourself a hard time about the "whining", but correct me if I am wrong. My career work is based on the science of behaviorism. When you mentioned about the beast always being somewhere just under the surface, it made me think about what is known as an "extinction burst". You can google it, but basically it means that, in terms of the work I do, if my goal is to decrease an inappropriate behavior of a child I am working with, and the child is doing that behavior to get attention, the best way to decrease it is to ignore it. The child, when he perceives the behavior being ignored, is surprised, disappointed and frustrated it is being ignored, and thus responds by trying even harder to get attention. He does this by performing the behavior that is being ignored more frequently and with more intensity. This is where my job gets tough because I need to continue to ignore it. What makes continuing to ignore it a lot easier is that I know this is the "extinction burst" phase, which is the final phase of the behavior. Eventually, the child will realize there is nothing that he can do to get me to attend to that behavior and will give up. I'm sure the analogy breaks down some places, but I am suggesting that the addictive portion of your brain is somewhat like this child. It doesn't want to give up, and at times may try harder and harder to come up with P images,etd. and get you to entertain those images. Like the child, it may even get creative, sneak up on you when you least expect it, when it perceives you are weak (i.e. I, as a therapist, just having a bad day), knowing that you are more vulnerable. But if you keep on doing what you are doing (acknowledge, but don't dwell on it), it will give up trying, because all the best efforts are not working. Its not a permanent giving up, it will still try from time to time to seduce you to give in, but the attempts will be less frequent, less intense, and of shorter duration. But, for the most part, it will be sleeping, but perhaps occasionally will open up one eye, survey the landscape, and look to see if there is any potential opening. Does that make sense?
CL
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Post by JohnG on Jan 23, 2007 9:03:14 GMT -5
Thanks CL.
It does make perfect sense. As to the whining - I find that making fun of myself a little when I am feeling sorry for myself helps. "...but it's hard" is a thing I hear a lot here and in my own head. Ok, so it is hard, so stop whining about it - this is what I tell myself sometimes. I don't like to show too much tolerance towards that tendency - it doesn't help me.
As to the beast, yes I believe if I don't feed it it will get weaker. It will try to trick me too by pretending to be weaker than it is and lulling me into false complacency. The brain will unlearn (I hope) the association between, say, an underwear ad, and a session of mb. Then, I hope, the response to an underwear ad or a short skirt on the street will not be immediate triggering of the pleasure center in the brain. But I expect this process of deprogramming, if it is even possible, will take years.
Thanks again CL.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 23, 2007 10:46:37 GMT -5
I just narrowly avoided getting sucked into that black hole called "should porn be illegal?" I posted once at the beginning about the Constitutional issue and since then have watched the thing turn into a flame fest.
The person that I want to be would recognize that for the silliness that it is and just ignore it. It would hold no attraction for him.
JohnG
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Post by freshstart on Jan 23, 2007 13:05:22 GMT -5
Hey JohnG Lion has written about this as well. Sometimes the General Discussion board is really good, with loads of positive information. But sometimes (I think that now is one of those times), it is just a waste of time IMO. People get dragged into the most pointless discussions, the argument keeps changing, people go off on tangents and it is a general waste of time and distraction from recovery.
At the moment i rarely look at it. If you like high emotional situations as a kind of replacement for P, maybe you would be better to stay away as well, at least from that thread (that includes reading). Is that thread middle circle behaviour for you?
Best wishes,
FS
Edit: I'm not trying to patronise you here, just to play devil's advocate.........
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Post by JohnG on Jan 23, 2007 17:46:15 GMT -5
Hey FS,
It may be middle-circle - the truth is that I am still not sure what middle circle means but I know that it is not good and closer to a slip than I want to be. If it is Carnes I will get to it, if not then I will investigate it here - I am sure a lot of people have discussed/defined it. Anyway, I know I should stay away - at the very minimum I can say it does nothing for my recovery and only satisfies a not-well part of my mind.
And don't worry about me taking anything the wrong way. My skin is not too thin.
JohnG
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Post by MJ on Jan 23, 2007 19:08:02 GMT -5
Hey JohnG,
I just wanted to thank you again for your support over the past few days. It has really meant a lot. Your concern for the guys on this board, myself included, is really touching.
Your friend, MJ
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Post by Lion on Jan 24, 2007 4:59:33 GMT -5
I just narrowly avoided getting sucked into that black hole called "should porn be illegal?" I posted once at the beginning about the Constitutional issue and since then have watched the thing turn into a flame fest. The person that I want to be would recognize that for the silliness that it is and just ignore it. It would hold no attraction for him. Hi John, Indeed I spoke of this same thing. Personally I think threads like that one are completely missing the point, or even A point. It does add nothing to your recovery proces, will lead to inflamed debates (with only losers) and anger. And in my case, anger leads to a state of mind I don't want to be in. Although I massively disagree with some points being brought up in threads like those, I force myself not to engage in debate. Maybe FS is right and would the thread only serve as a replacement for the excitement of P. Anyway, take care and good luck today. Lion
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Post by JohnG on Jan 24, 2007 6:32:11 GMT -5
DAY 14.
Two weeks. I feel very very good today.
I am beginning to believe that I can handle this thing and get better provided I continue to do whatever it takes.
Yesterday I read and posted here. I listened to the Carnes audio book - part 2 of 6. I spent a couple of hours with my sponsor who is home with pneumonia. He is not well obviously but he is also bored and a little scared. When they x-rayed his lungs they saw something on his heart and now they are going to do a biopsy. He has had cancer twice and I know he is rattled. We had a good talk.
Then I went to my AA meeting and shared about PA even though there were women present. They all know me but it is still hard. The topic last night was honesty and so I shared about how I have been hiding the PA for a long time and not sharing about it and that as a result I haven't wanted to share in meetings for a long time and have even begun to miss a lot of meetings. Two weeks ago I decided it was time to change all that. I have had enough.
This morning I prayed even though I am not feeling bad. I struggle to find consistency when things are going well. But today I started the day with prayer (an atheist who prays - hey, I will do whatever it takes). I feel good.
If I slip, it will be because I stop doing these things.
It seems like the obsession is being lifted but I know that that is for a day or so and that it will return. I do not labour under the illusion that it is gone, but I can have days where I don't have to fight constantly. That is a relief and gives me hope. I certainly have identified with those who ask, "will it ever end?" Well I don't know, but I know that if I can have two consecutive days that I don't have to fight off images or impulses from triggers, then all I have done until now is worth it. One day of sobriety is worth more than a lifetime of suffering.
I got up and made breakfast for my GF and now I have a turkey soup going. I used some bones I had frozen after Christmas and made stock last night after the meeting. Now I have added potatos, carrots, garlic, salt, pepper, onions... later I will throw in some rice and corn. With this soup I can raise the dead.
So, what is on the recovery plate today?
Read/write here. Call sponsor later to see how he is doing. Listen to part 3 Carnes audio book. Have some soup.
Just for the next 24 hours I think I will refrain from P/MB. I can do that I think.
JohnG
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Post by choselife on Jan 24, 2007 7:08:22 GMT -5
You sound awesome, JohnG. As a quick non sequitor, how beneficial do you think the online SLAA meetings can be?
Thanks
CL
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Post by JohnG on Jan 24, 2007 8:05:27 GMT -5
I haven't tried them yet as they are at noon or later EST - that puts them at 6 pm and later here and that is after my GF get home.
However, I would give them a try if the schedule works. You have nothing to lose. I intend to try them after I go north (I am moving soon). I am a big believer in 12 steps if you really work the program and do the steps. It is a lot more than just meetings. Anyway, obviously meetings in person is always preferable but if there is nothing else I would try it - and for a while - you need time to get a feel for the format, how the program works, to gain some trust and start sharing in a constructive way, etc...
Give it a try and then tell ME.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 25, 2007 6:21:01 GMT -5
DAY 15
Well here I am. I feel very good. I have been reading and posting a lot - to excess really but I am not going to beat myself up right now. There will come a time soon when I have to cut way back - I am closing on a house that I am going to fix up and that will be my job for the next year or so. But right now I have the free time and I need to get as centered as I can before I go north.
I had a dream two nights ago that I was acting out and I knew I was acting out and was really upset by it. I have these with booze too, but rarely now.
I did not listen to the Carnes audio book yesterday. But I was here all day so I was not neglecting my sobriety exactly.
I have been controlling my behaviour towards my GF very carefully. I have been interested in relations more (obviously) and wanted to initiate the last few nights but my motives are off - I would be indluging an urge to get a release. This is not the proper reason for having sex. I can see after 15 days that with the right mindset it is perfectly possible to live without P/MB AND SEX. I don't need it to live or even to be happy. When I can look at my GF the way I should I will give it a try.
I have to admit that I am still resisting giving up all my old ideas. My GF and I will be separating soon. I know that in about a year I will be going back to the U.S. for a couple of months. I have an old acquantance there that would likely be available. I don't allow myself to fantasize about her or even think about her, but I know this is in the back of my head - that there is this THING waiting back there that I can do when I go back.
Now my (flawed) thinking goes like this: My problem is with P (it is not just with P but that is what I tell myself), if I can quit P then I am ok. The phsical acting out was very sporadic, I can commit that this will not happen anymore while I am in a relationship - if I am not in a relationship when I go back next year, then what's the big deal?
Here's the big deal: This woman has never been a GF. She was a sex toy. She acts out my sickest fantasies with me (the mother/son thing - I hate saying it but it needs to be said once in a while so I don't forget that I have more issues than just the P). She is not well herself. Just the thought of her is a trigger (hence I force myself not to think about her). Anyway, her importance to me is directly related to all the PA/SA stuff I am trying to deal with. When I try to seperate her from all of this it is because part of me is resisting and doesn't want to give up EVERYTHING. This is worrisome. I can't do much to "get rid of her" as I know exactly where she lives. I have to "get rid of her" in my mind and that is the real challenge. The option that still exists in my head, that last little bottle of booze hidden in the back on the toilet tank, will kill me. I know that intellectually but I can't accept it. I am still resisting.
So I have been dealing with it like this: That is a long time in the future, you need to focus on today, she is not an imminent threat, if you still want that in a year, then you can have it. Don't get all upset about it. If you do your work then in a year maybe you won't WANT that. But today, I need to focus on keeping my mind and body clean or the whole thing will be a moot point. That is what I would tell a friend. But I would also say, share about it! Get it out there. You are resisting, that is normal, fortunately it is not an immediate risk, so get it out and be honest about it.
That's all I have to say about that. I pray that the obsession, IN ALL ITS FORMS, will one day be lifted.
That said, I am finding it less effort to avoid triggers. I look away from the TV routinely now - though I still feel a little twinge sometimes as I am doing it. There is a car ad that has a woman jump out of a car in the fist half-second of the ad so I have no warning - the ad starts with her jumping out a car and she is wearing a tight top and has the exposed belly going on. I look away but I always feel a couple of neurons fire.
I thought yesterday, hey, I haven't even noticed any women on the street today - then I realized, buddy, you haven't left the house today. Oh well.
So I decided this morning that for the next 24 hours I will not use P or MB. I am going to give it a try.
JohnG
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