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Post by freshstart on Jan 19, 2007 10:57:34 GMT -5
Hey JohnG
Is this true? This is a really disturbing statistic. If we make it to 4 years, we have less than a 50% chance of keeping sobriety for another 2 years.
I always presumed that while i would always be an addict, if i made it to two or more years, i would be out of the woods, and would just have to maintain the work i had put in. Why do so many people fall after being sober for so long?
FS
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Post by JohnG on Jan 19, 2007 11:53:45 GMT -5
FS,
I believe complacency is the answer. I have been around long enough to see people come in, get religion, burn bright for a while, and then slowly fade away. This very nearly happened to me. I drifted away and though I didn't drink I ended up very very disturbed - severe anger problems and fantasizing suicide and all kinds of weird stuff. One day I said to myself, "what has happened to me? I was happier 6 mo after quiting booze than I am today? Then I realized - I hadn't been to a meeting in over a year. I always thought because I was an atheist that AA wasn't a good fit for me. Now I just don't get into that controversy. I believe in a power greater than myself in the sense that my own power was insufficient to keep me sober - something outside myself, greater than myself, had to intervene. Was it God? I just don't get into that debate anymore. Why?
I quit the debating society and started working the program a little and going to meetings and doing some service and things got better. I suspect my little P secret is the last thing between me and really good sobriety. That and some real work.
Have a great weekend all! I will check in for a few minutes each day. But I really won't be around till monday.
JohnG
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Post by Disciple on Jan 19, 2007 12:22:06 GMT -5
JG,
I agree about complacency. I get complacent after a couple of weeks! I need to wake up every day and tell myself I'm a P addict. Otherwise things get fuzzy and I get blindsided!
I specifically use the term blindsided because my last therapist pointed out how bogus that term is. It is very much the same, as you pointed out in my journal about hoping I won't slip again. It is a passive stance. My higher power is God as I understand God. But that God won't do the work for me, I've been kidding myself but only I can do the work that is required. Thats the deal
Peace, Disciple
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Post by JohnG on Jan 19, 2007 12:39:11 GMT -5
It is very much the same, as you pointed out in my journal about hoping I won't slip again. It is a passive stance. My higher power is God as I understand God. But that God won't do the work for me, I've been kidding myself but only I can do the work that is required. Thats the deal Peace, Disciple That is it. I knew for a long long time that between AA and the tools and forums I would be able to find some help for the PA when I got ready. I just kept hoping that I wouldn't have to because I was looking for a "kinder, softer way." I didn't want to talk about it in meetings, I didn't want to do any work, to really think about it. The thing is though, if you can admit that as you just have, then at least you know full well what you have to do, and THAT means that when you are really ready you WILL do it. I spent the last few years sort of waiting for myself to finally get fed up and be ready to work. I am really hoping that that time is now. I want off the merry-go-round. JohnG
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Post by MJ on Jan 19, 2007 17:15:49 GMT -5
Hey JohnG, Just wanted to thank you for stopping by in my journal. I value your input. Peace, MJ
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Post by JohnG on Jan 20, 2007 4:08:24 GMT -5
DAY 10.
I can't write this weekend but wanted to at least have some contact with my journal.
Stay safe everyone.
JohnG
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Post by tomlincolnsixecho on Jan 20, 2007 5:57:56 GMT -5
agreed jg......I had a good effort a while back, I got too comfortable, and I lost it.
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Post by JohnG on Jan 20, 2007 9:33:38 GMT -5
agreed jg......I had a good effort a while back, I got too comfortable, and I lost it. This happens over and over and I am convinced that it is one of the ways that our brain tries to trick us. It tries with brute force, if that doesn't work it tries sneaking thoughts and images into our head. If that doesn't work it lets you think you have won, and then, BAM! Smackdown. I just went to the website of Prison Break and two bikini-clad women appear in banner ads. I looked away immediately. Last night on the TV I did the same several times. I don't know if it is wishful thinking, but it seems easier now than it did a week ago. JohnG
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Post by tomlincolnsixecho on Jan 20, 2007 17:16:26 GMT -5
Yes it can be very challenging JG
I like video games and this site I used to go to would come up with bikini clad women on the front page, they have a "Babes" Section. That annoyed me. Even MSN and Yahoo have triggering content.
Unfortunately Televisioin shows base a lot of the show on sex. I used to like watching lost, but it became triggering, although I think that s more me than anything else. If you take most sitcoms, they are shocking, you can't watch them. I used to as a kid watch married with children....No way could I watch that now. a lot of commercials on pay tv are real bad. I need to walk out during ads. Its frustrating when you like a show and there are big triggers in it.
Video games for me are starting to get bad......they are becoming more real and not good for me. I think the scary thing is when I'm reading text and I see the word mission, and instantly my brain says mistress mistress look, look,look, now!!! I am alerted by a single word on a page and it stands out like crazy, but its not the word, just close.
Im starting to be more vigilant. I still have decided to watch television. But I keep it mostly to sport and documentaries. However last night watching the Tennis I had to turn it off, because my fantasies, were starting to kick in, read my journal and you will understand. I have noticed that the documentary channels have good ads, but the sport ones dont. Problem with sport I still sometimes look at the women in the crowd....bad hey.
I believe keeping an eye on what you watch can help, staying away from all dramas and sitcoms, is a good start, and making sure the movies you are watching have meaning, give yourself the strength to look away or walk out in a triggering scene.
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Post by JohnG on Jan 21, 2007 12:13:14 GMT -5
DAY 11
Had a scary moment last night.
I turned off the sat receiver and the TV reverted to regular reception - which happened to be on a "bad" channel (here in Spain all sorts of nasty stuff comes in late at night on reg TV). It was about 1AM and up popped a soft-porn flick. There was a woman in her underwear on top of a guy... I shut that off IMMEDIATELY - my finger was already on the off button.
What was troubling was how AFTER the set was off I wanted to turn it back on. Right away my mind tried to use the "just a look" rationale. I recognized what was happening and talked myself through it but I was shocked to feel how strong the pull was and how hard it was for a moment to rid the image from my mind of that woman.
It was very discouraging - I certainly identify with those who worry will it ever get better? I have to believe this - it did with alcohol and I used to have those same types of compulsive urges.
I am having a good weekend and wish the same to all.
Good luck to all of us.
JohnG
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Post by choselife on Jan 21, 2007 12:24:42 GMT -5
I wish for you to be more encouraged by your action (turning tv off immediately) than discouraged by your wanting to turn it on. Your wanting to turn it on at that moment may have been impossible to control. But you demonstrated the committment to do the wise action. Makes me think of the expression, to the effect of that we can't control what happens in life, but we can control how we respond to it, and that is what you did.
CL
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Post by Disciple on Jan 21, 2007 13:12:37 GMT -5
Hi JG
Just a thought. There are some very positive things in your last several entries that perhaps you are not giving yourself credit for.
First, I'm with CL in that wanting to turn that TV on and not doing so is HUGE! You can't expect to not have temptation. Many people here describe it as waves. Hell, if we didn't face temptation we could all kick this habit.
Talk about how the mind tricks us. It also likes to attack from the rear. I know for me I tell myself that I should not have these thoughts. When I do it makes me feel bad even though I'm not giving in to them. My brain tricks me into thinking that I'm a louse for having them. Then that eats away at me. So even though I should pat myself on the back for not giving in to my addiction, I go around feeling bad about myself, and eventually it is this feeling that ultimately does lead to a slip. Temptation should indeed be less as we progress along the path of sobriety, but it will never completely leave us.
Peace, Disciple
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Post by JohnG on Jan 22, 2007 5:23:20 GMT -5
DAY 12
Thanks D and CL.
Of course you are both right but like every addict I want it it to be easy.
I have just posted to MJ. I find it very frustrating to see this happen. I saw a couple of days ago that he was in trouble and then it happened. It is very scary to watch the process like that and know that I am no different. The same could happen to me at any point - it is always easy to see what is going on from the outside - it happens in AA too. But then when you go through it you think you are somehow different. I am very scared of my own mind. I want to get better but I fall into many of the exact same traps - thinking that it is a neverending battle. But I haven't even really given sobriety a chance yet - the obsession with alcohol, which I used to think about in a very very similar manner to P, was eventually lifted. I still have to go to meetings, but I never think about booze anymore - or if I do it doesn't trigger me to think, mmmmm! wouldn't that be great! a nice cold tall one! Those thoughts not only don't haunt me anymore but they hold no interest. I can sniff a beer (not recommended, but I confess to having done it) and yes, there is some recognition that it does smell nice, some faded memory of that gravitational effect, the urge, the pull, but it is so weak now. It is small and there is no struggle whatsoever. But only if I care for my sobriety.
Addictions are generally progressive pathologies and I really don't want to find out where this one will lead me. I don't want to continue the cycle anymore. I want to be free. I want to be free of the voice that tries to discourage me.
As always, the solution is quite simple. Just for 24 hours. Talk to other addicts. Work a program. Prayer/meditation. Literature.
I have finally got my hands on Out of the Shadows audio book and will start listening today. I will call my sponsor (it is shameful - he has pneumonia and I haven't been calling him). How true it is that we addicts are self-centered creatures.
I prayed this morning. _______________________________________________________________________________________
Last night there was a Spanish movie on, a comedy, with a long sex scene (R-rated kind) and I looked away for the whole scene. I felt a little silly looking so intently at my cat for a few minutes but I have to get past these feelings. When I hear a voice saying this is silly or, "are you going to have to do this your whole life?" I have to remember that is the addict sulking and trying to manipulate me. I don't have to give it up for life - just for the next 24 hours.
I talked to my best friend last night about the problem. He was my accountability partner when I tried to do this with CE. I thought it would be some sort of miracle cure. I never gave much thought to really trying to learn about the addiction or understanding it.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 22, 2007 5:35:07 GMT -5
One thing I need to say and act on is that I have had a slightly elevated "background noise" for the past day or two. By that I mean a sense that my interest in at least MB is lurking right under the surface. Even without thinking of P, if I allow myself to think of MB for a second, I can tell that there is real danger there. Very real danger. I am completely undecided what my long-term plans for MB are but for at least a while, and until I have seriously thought about it, I am abstaining. I would like a detox period at least. And I need to face the real possibility that I can never have a normal relationship with MB. But for damn sure I know that right now, what I am feeling, is the addict.
Ok, please give me strength, just for today.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 22, 2007 9:11:25 GMT -5
I just finished listening to part 1 (of 6) of Patrick Carnes's Out of the Shadows. I frankly thought this book would be a little hokey but I was surprised. It is clearly written for the layman (that's me) and I am often sceptical of "pop psychology" books. However, the book is very very good. It describes the mental processes in a very clear manner. I had heard the term "ritualization" and did not understand it. Now I see that I spent most of my time in either "preocupation" or "ritualization." What I find myself doing now could be described as avoiding preocupation.
There were a lot of behaviours that described me to a T. Another interesting observation was of that of the "sincere delusion." I have certainly engaged in that (and in all liklihood still do).
So far today has been a good day.
Good luck to you all.
JohnG
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