|
Post by witness on Dec 10, 2007 5:23:02 GMT -5
Little things remind her of the past and make her think again about all the times I chose to betray her. But in general we are doing better. Although her physical pain is still almost always present.
|
|
iambetrayed
Full Member
So afraid to love you, more afraid to lose, Clinging to a past that doesn't let me choose ...
Posts: 153
|
Post by iambetrayed on Dec 10, 2007 8:49:09 GMT -5
I know that you wrote this several days ago and it sounds like you are doing better - but it made me sad so I have to comment.
Mrs. Witness - There is nothing that you could say to your husband that we would even consider ugly. We understand you - we know exactly how you feel. I know that I have been desperate and mean at times, which is so out of character for me, but my husband just takes it because he knows how horrible this has been for me. Please don't ever feel that anyone here would judge you. Even when your husband is doing everything right (mine is and it sounds like Witness is), these flashes of anger, extreme hurt, and fear come in waves and wash over you. I so understand how you feel. Nothing that you say in reaction to this pain would ever be considered ugly. What he did to you was ugly. And he has had a very long time to process it. You are new at it and you have every right to express whatever feelings you happen to be feeling. It would be wrong if you didn't express them. It would be bad for you and he needs to know how much this has affected you. So hang in there, even when you are having those bad days it is OK to say whwtever you need to say. ((((((((hugs to you )))))))))
AND WITNESS -
Get yourself across town and get to that therapist! If it is inconvenient and you do it anyway, with an eager heart and a positive spirit, it will be just one more teensy , tiny drop of proof to your wife. Proof that you are sincere. Make an appointment and GO.
|
|
|
Post by zerotolerance on Dec 10, 2007 12:25:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think her comments are ugly either. They are truthful, and the truth hurts. Yeah, we need to learn better ways to cope than ranting, and we do as we move through it and as we sort it all out. But we don't come equip with the skills to just instantly handle this level of pain. It manages us, until we learn how to manage it better. And it is quite a roller coaster ride in between. She hates her ugliness. We all hate it. We want to be loving, not full of hate. But this forces a view of hate inside of us, and overwhelming saddness too. The likes of which we have NEVER known, and hope to never experience again. That's why we get so hyperviligent trying to keep the p out of our relationships. We know what it is doing to us, even when ya'll are in denial about it. We can't deny it when it is hurting us soo bad. We can for a while sometimes, but eventually it comes pouring out in ways we never imagined. We think things we never would have even imagined thinking before, and sometimes we spew it. It's all good. It can really stink, but in the end we learn, it's all good. It's all part of the journey. It's all healing. And that is the objective. It's hard to see these facts when we are stuck in the pain though. Just keep going forward, one day at a time. It's never as hopeless as it seems. It is really far less hopeless than we think. We just have to learn to focus on us, to grow love and empathy back from the inside out, rather than keep looking for outside things to shove in our soul holes.
|
|
|
Post by witness on Dec 11, 2007 5:21:59 GMT -5
I told her that you all know how it is and I think she understands that. And she wants me to keep posting here. It is true that she has never had such strong feelings before. She told me nothing has ever hurt her like this has. So she really doesn't have the tools to deal with this level of pain.
I'd say she is actually doing pretty well. She is much more subdued than a couple of weeks ago. She says it still really hurts but the anger she feels has subsided and is now at a more controllable level. She is smiling and laughing more than she did in the early days and seems more like herself, the happy person that everyone likes. I'm so blessed to have her.
I thought the other day that I've taken her for granted over the years. I've always told her she is God's gift to me, but I think sometimes anything you have and are accustomed to having you often overlook how valuable and precious it really is. I've always appreciated her. But I do now more than ever. She has such character. And she is pretty to beat!
We found out not too long ago that a couple we know is now divorced. It seems so sad for them and their children. My wife said that she doesn't want that for us. I'm so glad that she is working to keep our marriage together and to help it be better than ever. What a blessing for me to have another chance to do it right!
My wife told me yesterday to wait until January to see about the therapist. Things will be very busy around here with the holidays coming up. In fact I'm sure I won't be posting as much.
I heard a sermon yesterday on mp3 by Dallas Willard. He said God put us in this world to train us to want what He wants. Hopefully I'm getting a little closer to that. I'm so thankful for His forgiveness and another chance to become the man I should have been all along.
|
|
|
Post by witness on Dec 13, 2007 9:03:17 GMT -5
Just because she had not said much about this for a while I thought she was past the hard part. Another wave has hit.
She told me that this wound that I inflicted on her is deeper than any thing she has ever felt. Just now she told me: "You ruined my life!"
She told me that it is easy for me to say "I'm sorry" while she suffers the pain and the consequences of all of this. She said I was cruel and unloving. And she is so right.
If love is unselfishness, then selfishness is UNlove. And I was so very selfish. Now I'm sorry but I cannot undo the past. It hurts her so deeply to know now how I betrayed her so often in the past by looking at other women.
Lord, forgive me. Lord, help her. Lord, help us! Please do what neither one of us has the ability to do!
|
|
iambetrayed
Full Member
So afraid to love you, more afraid to lose, Clinging to a past that doesn't let me choose ...
Posts: 153
|
Post by iambetrayed on Dec 13, 2007 9:43:08 GMT -5
Witness - I think that your wife and I are in a similar time frame with this. It was 11 weeks ago today that I found out what my husband had been up to for 15 years. I completely understand your wife.
It does come in waves. You go along, trying to internalize all of this , having bad days and better days. And then something will remind you or make you start to question or you'll hear a song, or see a happy couple your age, or look into the eyes of your children, or walk behind a thinner woman in the mall, or whatever - and then the wave hits again.
Last Friday night I told my husband that I was on the verge of hating him. And I think at that moment I really may have been. We have had a rough-ish week. But then last night we talked together and both cried and today I am feeling better. I love him with all of my heart, and had never before felt any hate towards him, but I did for a few minutes. The wave is hard to take.
Here's the truth, Witness. And I know that it is hard. You did ruin her life. You let her believe for many, many years that she had this life with you - when the truth was that she never had exactly what she thought she did. Thats not to say that there were no good times, or that you didn't love her, or that it was all bad. But it wasn't what she thought it was. You stole that basic feeling of safety from her. I want to say that you pulled the rug right from under her - but I think that that makes it sound too much like the disclosure is what did it to her. It wasn't the disclosure - it was all of the actions that led up to you having to disclose.
I think that my husband is getting this right now - seeing that his deceit and actions made our marriage something other than what I thought it was. It is important to understand. He knew what I thought, which makes it even worse. You ruined her life. You ruined the life that she thought she had.
I know how she feels, because my husband ruined my life, too. Thats not to say that it is hopeless, or that we can't make it. But it is true, the life that your wife believed in never existed. The life where you loved her so much that you would do anything for her. The life where she was your true love, your one and only, your only desire. She knew that you were a man - that a beautiful woman could attract your eyes. But she believed that you were above that, that you loved her so much that you would avert your eyes, that another woman would never, ever make it into your heart - take your attentions - your time, your energies - away from her. I am speaking for your wife, so maybe she doesn't feel exactly this way. But I am speaking my own words to you, my own hurt. Yes, Witness, you ruined her life.
And frankly, if she has any love left for you (and it sounds like she does) - then you are the only one who can fix this. You have to give to her whatever she needs, every second of every hour, of every day for the rest of your life. That is how deeply she is wounded. This isn't going to go away. She is scarred beyond recognition.
So Witness, understand that when she says something it is true. If she is like me any mincing of words that I once did with my husband, any artfully constructing sentences to spare his feelings, is over. Done with. I say whatever I mean. It is all about me now. He has had his selfishness for long enough. If he wants me he is going to have to fight for me - to prove to me that what he is saying is true.
So prove it to her, Witness. And buddy, you are in for a long, long, haul. But it is the only way if you want to be her husband. Prove it to her.
|
|
|
Post by dazednconfused on Dec 13, 2007 9:46:56 GMT -5
Witness- I think I mentioned this to one or both of you, Carnes talks about recovery for the PA as sometimes having waves of temptation. Those waves al;so occur for the So who is healing... we go along fine and then blamo, we get knocked on our butts. I can only image you are getting sick of hearing that this will get better with time, especially since it is so awful now. The waves become less frenquent which is good in that you don't feel like this every day and bad in the when they hit, sometimes they are out of nowhere. I do know that with time, just like the waves of temptation lessen in strength, so do the waves of pain.
You are both in my prayers.
And remember, she said "I was cruel and unloving" WAS. WAS. And now you are taking the responsibility for that. but it is still WAS. Love her now. Recover now. That is all you can do, since you can't change the past.
peace and prayers to you both -dazed
|
|
|
Post by witness on Dec 13, 2007 11:01:28 GMT -5
Iambetrayed and dazednconfused, I thank you. No doubt you both understand very well what she is going through. Yes, she thought she was my "one and only" and I always said that and even felt it in my own way, but of course my actions showed something else. And I am so grateful that in spite of it all she still loves me. When I think of it, it is unfathomable and makes me love her even more. When the waves hit she says she wishes she didn't care so much because then it would not hurt so badly. But she does care. And I certainly have more than I deserve.
She said not long ago: "How can I process all of this? You betrayed me and lied to me hundreds of times, throughout our whole marriage! I don't know what to do with all of this!"
And I also am in a quandry. Nothing I say or do at this point can change anything from the past. If I say I'm sorry that sounds hollow and trite. If I ask her to think about how bad this addiction is and to understand that I didn't want to do it she says I am minimizing and excusing my actions. If I tell her I love her she responds, "Well what kind of love was that for you to have all your P girlfriends and find pleasure and satisfaction with them over me?"
I think I'm doing all I can to change the present. One day she told me I was going to spoil her. But when the wave hits nothing I can say helps at all.
So as you say, only time can bring any kind of healing. But even in that regard she said today that she will carry these scars with her until the day she dies.
|
|
|
Post by zerotolerance on Dec 14, 2007 2:01:46 GMT -5
Sometimes it's best to just listen and not say anything at all. It's the ole, "when you're in a pit, stop digging" advice. Your instinct is probably strong and wants to "fix it". But we can't. All we can do is watch, and wait, and try to help with a few words whereever we can, while we watch and wait some more. The scale that p permeates a relationship is truly overwhelming, isn't it? That's part of why it is so incomprehensible to us that users can't see these blazenly apparant facts even while they are using. It's a testement to how much p really robs a person of their senses imo.
Dispite all it's despairing elements, this really is a great opportunity for you both to learn soo many new things together, and thus also an opportunity to grow closer.
|
|
|
Post by witness on Dec 14, 2007 5:30:40 GMT -5
zt, Just this morning she asked again, "How could you keep doing this knowing that it would hurt me so much?" She thinks I should have seen it. And I suppose she is right. But I never imagined how much or how deeply she would be affected. I only saw it as something I was trying to stop but couldn't. What a mess!
I've noticed the past couple of days that much of this revolves around the question "Who am I?" She thought I was someone I am not. She thought I would never do what I did. She has said recently she should have never trusted me so much. So now that I am not who she thought I was she is trying to figure out who I am. And sometimes her answer is that I am a cruel, selfish, thoughtless, uncaring, jerk.
And on my side I always considered myself a "good guy". After all this sin wasn't hurting anyone. (That's how I viewed it not how it really is!) I was trying to quit. (My wife says I wasn't trying very hard or it would not have gone on for 30 years.) I always tried to show my wife my love for her and tried to treat people right.
Now I have to face up to who I am. A guy with weaknesses who was willing to keep doing something he knew was wrong and willing to lie to hide it from the one he says he loves the most. What kind of a person is that? I can't just run from this. I have to look in the mirror and face up to the evil within me.
I believe there is hope for both of us. We both want to stay together and make this better. But I'm seeing more clearly how hard and long this is going to be.
|
|
|
Post by dazednconfused on Dec 14, 2007 7:15:21 GMT -5
witness, have you read puire desire by ted roberts? Although not to be used as an excuse for hurting other people, it sounds like devestated is also struggling with this being an addiction. Yes you were choosing to us p, yes it is being unfaithful, but the choice in your brain was not about cheating on your wife, it was more like the alcoholic who just keeps drinking. "I can quit anytime" "I'll stop tomorrow" and then they take a day (if lucky) off from drinking and it begins again. Because this addiction is part of something we do naturally, we tend to forget it is still an addiction. Like food addiction, you need to eat to live, but you can knock that natural desire for food out of reality by being addicted to food. It is difficult to understand. Atleast liquor or druigs or gambling are "outside" of a normal bodily need/want. Sexual addiction, like eating addiction, are difficult to get ones brain around because they are supposed to be things you do, in a healthy manner. Have devestated thought of going on retreat and getting this out? After "dealing" with my feelings toward my husband, I needed to go yell ast God a bit. I felt angry at Him too, and guilt for that anger, and frustrated that He couldn't show me the way in 9 years, and guilt for questioning Him, and anger at Him... much of which I was taking out on my husband.
Just a thought, dazed
|
|
|
Post by witness on Dec 14, 2007 11:57:30 GMT -5
iambetrayed, I just saw what you wrote to my wife. I will tell her and I'm sure she will want to come in and read it. Thanks!
dazed, I read Pure Desire a while back. I showed my wife the chapter that Robert's wife wrote for women soon after I disclosed to her. I have read many other books on this topic. One that helped me the most was Pure Intimacy. I've also gone through all the lessons at Recovery Nation and done courses at Setting Captives Free.
So I have no shortage of information. I guess the key is putting it into practice. We have ordered some books for couples and should begin doing some work there in January.
My wife told me today this has been hard for her spiritually. So I'm sure, dazed, that she can identify with many of the things you have felt there.
The physical pain my wife has been feeling almost from the first day I told her, seems to be getting worse. That has discouraged her. It is just one more problem for her to deal with. One more way I have hurt her.
She is so wonderful. And I have made her life one filled with pain.
|
|
|
Post by witness on Dec 17, 2007 5:20:45 GMT -5
She feels like that for her to get better that she needs to forgive me, yet when she thinks of all the times I lied to her and betrayed her she finds it practically impossible to forgive me. It seems like she is stuck. In the meantime the physical pain she feels has gotten worse.
|
|
|
Post by LookingUp on Dec 17, 2007 11:30:22 GMT -5
The physical pain my wife has been feeling almost from the first day I told her, seems to be getting worse. That has discouraged her. It is just one more problem for her to deal with. One more way I have hurt her. You tend to look at the negatives and not the positives. Yes, it is sad and frustrating she hurts physically - but that can also be a barometer for her to recognize when she is healing and eventually when she is sliding back into non-recovery thinking. The beauty I can see about being a SO is it has given me practical experience in 1 Peter 2:21, Isaiah 30:2 and Lam. 3: 19-31. There was something I read from Mike Bickle last night and it again helped me find gratitude for this painful SO journey: LookingUp
|
|
|
Post by witness on Dec 18, 2007 5:03:31 GMT -5
LU, Thank you for words of encouragement!
We probably won't be around the board much during the holidays. I am grateful for all you ladies have done to help me understand this. I wish all of you the very best!
May His love fill all of our hearts and overflow into the lives of others!
|
|