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Post by witness on Nov 28, 2007 10:08:23 GMT -5
It hurt to hear her say all those things to me. I reminded her later that she used to say from time to time: "You're so good to me."
Then she replied: "Then I didn't know you were betraying me behind my back. I'm so mad at you. You didn't care about me one bit. All you cared about was yourself and your lust for all of you girlfriends."
What a selfish fool I have been, for a long, long time.
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Post by zerotolerance on Nov 28, 2007 14:14:05 GMT -5
You can say, "you are right". I'm sorry, I didn't know. I wasn't looking at it in the right perspective. It's no excuse but I was under the influence of p, and p lies. I didn't realize it would hurt you this way although I should have known it would and could. I realize I was mistaken, sooo very wrong, and that is why I told you know, and finally stopped. I don't want to hurt you and if I could take it all back I would, but I can't. I'm soo sorry.
It won't fix it, but there is something about knowing ya'll get it NOW that will help imo. We normally get distractions and diversions and blaming all that crap, so avoid ALL those type comments. Check every negative thought you have in that regard. You were cheating, you did have countless g/f's throughout your marriage. That's the cold hard truth, and it is a very bitter pill to swallow.
Remind her that you stopped and that you are committed to NEVER letting it happen again no matter what she decides to do. Let her know that you will stand by any decisions she makes, and support her in any endeavor, and that you are willing to do anything that she thinks might help her learn to deal or heal.
Ditching ya'll won't even fix us, so she has to heal herself regardless of if she stays with you. These probems and intrusive thoughts go with us 24/7 until WE resolve them all within our own souls. The best thing you can do is be a better you, no matter what she does or doesn't do. She'll get her soul reconnected back eventually, it's just too hard to connect when there is soo much pain there now. So we have to take little bits and peices out to swallow or ponder, until we can handle the whole load. That's why she is saying these things rather randomly.
She needs to know that YOU know it is cheating. That you understand what she is saying and that YOU know it to be truthful even if it hurts you to hear her say so.
Someday when you are in your right mind, and she is too, then you should be able to laugh at your stupidity, at the stupidy of p per se. We're skepical when we've been manipulated and decieved for SOOOO long. We can't trust ourselves anymore, nor anything else we once could, and that's the real problem she is dealing with now imo. It's bad not to be able to trust another, but when we can't trust ourselves to judge a persons trustworthiness it's a whole other ball of wax. Her perspective is skewed too far the other way. She's supersizing it to some degree, but the truth is still the truth regardless, it's just not in the right perspective when we are in those triggered states anymore than it was the right perspective while you were in the p triggered states of a user.
And words that sting come out of her mouth they are messages to you both from God imo. Your spiritual internet has been damaged, but hers is still functioning somewhat normally. She will come out of it with and enhanced spiritual connectedness, and when we get that we can trust God to guide us, and it doesn't matter that we can't trust ourselves anymore. Trusting that God will show us what we need to know in future situations is a blessing. I don't have to decide what God already decided for us all. I just have to hear it, and honor it, and then you, nor my h, nor any other person under the influence of p can hurt me those ways again. Your wife is own her own spiritually journey now, and you can only watch and be there, like we can only watch and pray for our spouse as we know what they are doing is damaging their souls.
I think part of our purposes as SOs is to learn this crap inside and out. It's part of our own spiritual journey, part of our purpose for being here. But it sure feels like a curse at first. It feels sooo hopeless. So remind her it is not hopeless, that ya'll will get thru this one way or another. And you will both become grateful for having learned these lessons, and the truth, while you're still here on earth, and still had the chance to change.
I look at it like I was in the dark my whole life prior to getting this knowledge. I though I was walking with God, but I was walking under the influence of man made lies. When the reality of this hits us, it feels like we are fighting the devil, demons, and intrusive hate, and anger, and rage, and all things bad. But really we are transforming into becoming more God like, more in the light, not more possesed like it seems.
God is changing you and your wife. And you will wake up from this nightmare standing in the light of truth like you've never experienced it before. Not in this pain way, but in a far, far, better way, where love flows more freely and we are awashed with pure truth in a joyous way. She can't appreciate these facts now. She can't even imagine it from where she is at. I know I couldn't imagine it. I felt so hopeless and like I would be a lost soul forever, as lost as my h in a different way. But I was wrong. I am so much more a wholer soul, now than I ever knew even existed. Keep going forward.... The path is rough, and the journey is long, but it has a happy ending for those who dare take it imo. We are meant to take these journys, we just don't know it.
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Post by witness on Nov 29, 2007 4:52:03 GMT -5
"We're skeptical when we've been manipulated and deceived for SOOOO long. We can't trust ourselves anymore, nor anything else we once could, and that's the real problem she is dealing with now imo. It's bad not to be able to trust another, but when we can't trust ourselves to judge a persons trustworthiness it's a whole other ball of wax. Her perspective is skewed too far the other way. She's super sizing it to some degree, but the truth is still the truth regardless, it's just not in the right perspective . . ."
I know that now she thinks she should not have trusted me so much and that she should have wondered why I came to bed late so many nights. And she has "super sized" things but I understand that that is how it feels to her as she tries to sort through all of this.
Right after giving me a big dose of "truth" yesterday she went to her therapist. As usual she came back from that feeling better. We barely saw each other in the afternoon but she came up to me and gave me a kiss.
Last night she told me that when she gets mad at me she intentionally says things that she hopes will hurt me so that I can feel some of the pain she feels. This comes in waves and I am going to have to get accustomed to it. She also said she had thought she would get through all of this in just a few months but now she sees that it takes a long time to work through it all and we are still just beginning.
She said her therapist (a lady) suggested that I go see a male therapist. I hadn't really planned on it but perhaps it would be good. I've considered being here and reading books to be my therapy. This therapist is way on the other side of the city so that would be a drawback. I may see if we can find someone else closer. Also I want to know if whoever I might go to has any experience with this addiction.
And of course my main job is to work on me. I still feel good and focused. I've not really been tempted lately. My wife wants me to get to the root, to what caused this. Perhaps she is right. I have gone back to Recovery Nation and done more reading over there. He has some very good insights into how all of this works and the various factors involved. It is amazing to me how we can all be so different and yet have experiences and feelings that are almost identical.
Ladies, please chime in! I need your help!
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shomer
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by shomer on Nov 29, 2007 7:21:01 GMT -5
"This therapist is way on the other side of the city so that would be a drawback. I may see if we can find someone else closer. Also I want to know if whoever I might go to has any experience with this addiction."
I think it is important to see someone about this regardless of how far the therapist is. If you had cancer and therapist was "on the other side of town", you'd still go. Well you have a cancer called pa in your relationship that needs to be treated.
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Post by Disillusioned on Nov 29, 2007 9:45:52 GMT -5
3+ years ago when the last d-day struck, Charlie started going to therapy. I think the 12-step stuff helped more than the therapy, but I think the therapy was very valuable too. I didn't go to therapy, nor did we go for marriage counselling. The thought process at the time was that Charlie had to get fixed and everything else could wait. And perhaps because it wasn't the first d-day for us, I was seemingly handling it better than your wife is. (meaning only that it wasn't NEWS to me.. )
Now 3 years later, Charlie is sober and soo much better in so many ways and I'm finally starting therapy and our marriage is in SERIOUS trouble.
I wish that we'd both gone to individual therapy and also started marriage counselling THEN - and we wouldn't be where we are now.
So my advice (?) is to get as much help help as you possibly can for your wife, for yourself and for the 2 of you together.
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Post by LookingUp on Nov 29, 2007 14:43:45 GMT -5
My wife wants me to get to the root, to what caused this. Perhaps she is right. I think finding the root cause may be an unrealistic expectation. Having said that - I still think counseling is a good idea and should also help your wife feel that you're accessing every avenue for recovery - which may help her re-establish trust more quickly. LookingUp
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Post by witness on Nov 30, 2007 5:15:11 GMT -5
My wife just came in and saw me here and asked: "What are you going to say about me today? Any other ugly things I said?"
I told her today I only want to say that she is a wonderful wife and I'm so thankful to have her in my life and that she is willing to keep me in her life! This is still so hard for her to accept but she still loves me in spite of the ways I have lied and betrayed her. She is marvelous!
Regarding the therapist I'm going to have to pursue that idea. Either the one that has been recommended or someone else. I didn't really want to go to the time and trouble. I'd rather read at home or come in here. But dealing with a real person may be what I need. And I certainly don't want to fool myself into thinking I'm "cured" when I obviously have a long way to go.
Keep writing me, my friends. You help me think and see things I would otherwise miss.
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vlngrl
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by vlngrl on Nov 30, 2007 12:00:49 GMT -5
FWIW, here's my thoughts on therapy.
For me, it is a HUGE pain in the *ss that my DH is in therapy and goes to SA meetings. He only works part time, and schedules his sessions on days he's off. Which means that I have to take vacation/sick leave from work so he can go. This has very real implications, as it means less time I can take off (with pay) while I'm on maternity leave. It also means less "vacation" time, etc, etc. We also have to hire a sitter or I have to forgo work/income (I work two jobs) so DH can go to an SA meeting. I'm the one that ends up coordinating much of this stuff. Honestly, his therapy is WAY more inconvient for me than extra commuting time.
That said, I did give DH the choice of seeing a therapist or separation after D-Day. He fully admitted that he had tried to stop several times but couldn't. That told me he COULDN'T do it on his own, and it was imperative that he got help to deal with this, no matter how much it inconveniences me now. I'm younger (early 30's), and I just don't want to mess around with this cr*p for the rest of my life (potentially another 50 years). Though he's been sober for 9 months now (no slips) , I still don't feel that he's gotten to the root of why he was self-medicating. I honestly don't think he can figure that out and replace the addcition with different habits on his own, which is also why I wanted him to go to therapy. IMHO, people self-medicate for a reason, not generally "just because."
It is also nice that DH has someone else other than me to be accountable to. Frankly, with two kids, two jobs, and all the other living stuff, I don't have the emotional resources to hear every struggle/urge/issue DH is going through. Most of the time, I don't want to know. Knowing he has an addiction is enough for me. If I do have a concern over something, I'll ask.
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Post by zerotolerance on Nov 30, 2007 14:41:21 GMT -5
I think we do have to get to the root(S) of our triggers in order to really heal them. It won't be one root though, but rather multiple factors that contributed and stacked up together in one big ball of confusion, and habit. Until we know all the reasons WHY, and look at ALL the factors, we are more prone to be influenced by our old triggers in the future imo. You should find many places along the way where you took wrong turns, and you need to look at what you were thinking at the time, and why you were thinking that? Who did you learn what, wrong, from? and when? and how many times were those false ideas re-enforced. And then what do you know differently now? What was true and what wasn't? What can you change now? Understanding ourselves is the most important work we do. Even if you don't think you need couseling, your wife thinks so evidently. If getting some will help restore HER peace of mind, then it would be a small price to pay imo. And the potential added benefits to your recovery would be a bonus! In order to feel safe again she may need to know you're doing more than you've done before. You read before, right? You tried to stop by yourself before, right? But every time BEFORE you still slipped anyway. So her fear is warranted imo. I believe in devine intervention, but I also believe we have to help ourselves. I wouldn't even consider feeling safe with my h without him taking different iniatives than he's ever taken before even if I saw him get hit by God's lightening. lol!
Is chatting with us making her more uncomfortable with you? I know I don't like my friends talking about me with others. Esp when they don't talk to me about it first. I know you're not going behind her back here. But we feel like ya'll give what is rightfully ours, away to everyone else, but us. I'd guess she wants you talking to her about your problems. That's what we want imo. She thought you were, when you weren't, and that hurts really bad. Also we wear a lot of shame associated with this which really belongs on ya'll but ends up in us somehow. It's hard for us to talk to anyone about it at first, because of all that shame we don't know how to handle. It's embarassing, and horrifying and we don't want others to know. But thinking like that is just a common mistake we make. We learn that bringing it into the light is what works, not hiding the truth from others. Plus she knows you were here for years, or some period of time, and continued using, ya know? So how good this can work may not be apparant to her yet.
And it may seem like she's the one doing all the work while you just sit at home and read, ya know. She'd probably like to sit and read too but her minds been hijacked and so she has to deal with that instead. Thoughts like those are intrusive, and also build resentments if we don't get them in check.
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Post by witness on Nov 30, 2007 16:08:51 GMT -5
She comes in here and reads from time to time. And I told her I will stop saying anything about her if she prefers it that way. But she said to go ahead. She believes that this is good for me. I told her I get the most help now from you ladies and not from the men. She said she can see how you all help me understand her. ( I see that everything she does and feels is perfectly normal and very similar to what the rest of you are going through.)
We're talking and she is slowly working through the anger. She said that even her worst day this week was mild compared with what she felt the first few weeks. We can both see that we are making progress.
Today she told me that I am different. More attentive. Trying to spend more time with her and the family. (I need to get off of here now and go be with her in the kitchen!)
I'll see what needs to be done about therapy and what my options are. Her therapist is going to see if she can find anyone a little closer to where we live. But of course the most important thing is getting a qualified person. So I'll have to call and maybe even set up an initial meeting.
Thanks again to all of you for talking to me. Keep it up! I'm just a dumb guy who needs lots of wisdom that only you ladies can provide!
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Post by witness on Dec 3, 2007 6:02:29 GMT -5
We had a good weekend. The thing I feel badly about is that her physical pain rather than getting better, has gotten a little worse. I pray that she will get some relief soon.
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Post by witness on Dec 4, 2007 12:37:33 GMT -5
She has been really nice to me the past few days and I'm trying to be an attentive friend. I just hate that her physical symptoms have not gotten better.
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Post by witness on Dec 7, 2007 6:05:00 GMT -5
I know we still have lots of work to do and that this won't always be easy. Yet I also see signs of progress. Yesterday we spent the day together. At one point she thanked me for all that I have done in fighting this and for the progress I have made. That really felt good!
A few days ago she told me that I am different from before, more attentive, more concerned, more present, etc. I told her she seems different too, more tuned in to me and more loving. She said well my being different makes her be different. Then yesterday she said she can foresee our relationship becoming better than it ever was as we both strive to draw closer. In spite of all the pain she said she is glad that I told her.
So I thank God for helping us come this far and ask Him to lead us forward day by day.
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Post by LookingUp on Dec 7, 2007 7:02:14 GMT -5
Great update. GLad you're both seeing progress and are able to communicate that.
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Post by completelydone on Dec 7, 2007 17:47:10 GMT -5
Great update. GLad you're both seeing progress and are able to communicate that. Ditto
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