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Post by timoteiy on Sept 25, 2007 11:03:03 GMT -5
This morning it is raining, there is more fresh sonow on the mountains, and I have to ride my old motorbike over 200 kilometers to a lawyers appointment. Hopefully when I get out of this mountain range to the next one, it will be dryer (it usually is.)
I fought off my compulsion to masterbate last night. It was difficult and I realised that I wanted the drug to stop feeling. But I succeeded another day.
I either feel shame or anger alot of the time. I feel shame about my addiction, and all the contact I have with people I can't talk to that have been told about my porn and masterbation addiction feeds into that.
I realise that having admitted to having an addiction to porn and masturbation, I am set up for continual shaming by those that have anomisoty towards these things, or towards me, or those that would use it against me to gain what they want from me.
I feel I have to defend myself in saying that what I did was legal ( i.e. -not a rapist, child porn viewer, or other kind of offender). Because my wife said, "it is a progressive disease, and who's to know you won't end up a child molester, etc...?" I fear what she says to people in this town. There are children at the place I stay at and my wife talks to their mother. This make me soo pissed off mad, but I don't know what is being said. I know that the mother will not look at me or talk to me.
Am I paronoid? Sht. I viewed porn and masturbated okay. I know alot of guys that admit to that openly. My wife took advantaqge of the shame I had for many years. It gave her the ability to take control of money, children, family life. THose things are all a disaster, and it most certainly is not all my doing. I know now, because I have been on the planet long enough now, that many people, men or women, advantaged or disadvantaged, good or bad upbringing, clergymen and convicts,ARE EASILY TEMPTED BY THE POWER AND CONTROL THAT THEY GET IN THE COMPANY OF A SHAMED PERSON.
So in effect, I belief, if I may use the language used around here, I become a TRIGGER for others by acting Shamed.
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Post by arctic on Sept 25, 2007 11:40:36 GMT -5
Hi Tim,
What if you took away the power of shaming from others by refusing to be ashamed anymore?
Your friend, Arctic
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Post by rockwell on Sept 25, 2007 13:26:58 GMT -5
Tim,
I am sad for you that your wife decided to spread the word instead of helping you. I am not even sure what to say. It would be easy to say just ignore the crowds, but I am sure that is not easy. So I have nothing to say other than sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. And congrats for resisting the urge to act out.
Stay strong. You still have that going for you!
rock
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Post by amaninfull on Sept 25, 2007 19:53:02 GMT -5
Tim,
I am sad that you are the bearer of a cautionary tale, which is: a great deal of discrimination and judgment should be used in deciding how much to admit and to whom. Having seen a great deal of writing on this board that stresses the importance - even the imperative - of self-disclosure, I have not seen it tempered enough by caution. If you had it to do over again, Tim, would you have told as many as much?
To the extent - and only to the extent - that shame motivates you to abstain, may you profitably hold on to your feelings of shame. Beyond that, Arctic is, as he signs, your friend when he asks what would happen if you let go of your shame.
Here is something to remember: those that will not look you in the eyes have something inside they cannot face (and may not even know about). In other words, you're right: your shame is triggering them. Compassion might be the best attitude towards them, if you could muster it.
I am mostly concerned with your daily logistics. I do hope your trip is safe, and that your visit with the lawyer is a good one. I am really glad it looks like you're lining up another source of income. I hope it pans out into more business for you. I hope you can locate a decent place to stay soon, and before long a vehicle that will work a little better than a motorcycle in the winter.
Take care of yourself.
AMIF
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Post by timoteiy on Sept 25, 2007 22:29:40 GMT -5
I'm back from that adventure.... It was like I thought....rain and semi-trucks splashing, blinded, cold, stiff, until I got to the Okanagan and it cleared up. MY wife passed my in the comfort of our van! on her way to Kelowna (I just found out from my son) to some cosmetic surgery. THe lawyer's visit was informative and gave me some direction. The trip home was alot drier, but I ran out of gas when I thought I still had reserve to run on, and a guy gave me a ride into a small town to get gas and back. I'm thawing out now.
ARTIC buddy you hit it on the head. I wasn't given a choice whether I wanted to deal with this addiction in secret or not. I refuse to be shamed anymore.I want to hold my head up high. If necesary I can admit that I have an addiction and I have the courage to deal with it.
What do they say:"you are only as sick as your darkest secrets"?
ROCKWELL, Howdy! Yeah I hate it being public in a small town. Sex addict! So many fking fingers pointing, everything from looks of disdain to (worse) condescending sympathy. I feel the urge to 1. take other's inventory (fight fire with fire) 2. hide in shame, 3. or... come right public and say yeah, I am addicted to porn and masturbation and I'm trying to get recovery from it, (what about you?) I guess a 4th alternative would be to hold my head high and ignore them. To be honest, I will probably come up with a mix of all 4 of these options
AMANINFULL
My wife was the one who told others of my sex addiction, not me. Now that the cat's out of the bag, so to say, I have to deal with it. For her, it was a way to clear her of any wrongdoing in the relationship. Its a horible situation right no, but the realitiy is that I'm looking at myself, my mistakes, my addiction. I have to look at the oportunity to improve my life, rather than justify that life by pointing at others
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Post by Clean2day on Sept 25, 2007 23:02:40 GMT -5
Tim
It is great that you post and share your feelings, it is important to express them honestly. SAA has a motto "From Shame to Grace". That does say a lot and if you look up the word grace it will give you the power to hold your head up.
I don't know how long you have been fighting this maybe I am an "old timer" although I don't feel like it. But I just don't care if they even put my story on the front page of the paper, as long as they also put that by the grace of God I am free. People do not like that word Free. I ask a pastor one time what it meant, he said, "Free? Ask a slave."
He was so right. I was a slave to P and Mb. Now I don't have to be a slave. I can be free. You were free, and hopefully still are, when you said "No!" to that urge.
Yes, people still point and stare, but remember what you said if you have to point a finger your hiding something yourself. {This is a lesion for me today. Self Pride}. Thanks for posting. You are in a hard place of a small town where everybody knows your business and makes it theirs.
Go easy on those around you and remember you are now free. The Bible says, I come to set the captives free.... You are no longer a captive and chained to the devil P&Mb. You now have a choice.
C2d
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Post by rockwell on Sept 26, 2007 8:47:44 GMT -5
Tim,
Remember, many of those who are looking judgemental towards you.....they are also looking at P. Many of them are. P addiction is more wide spread than any of us imagine. Things will work out for you. It comes in steps.
Your friend,
rock
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Post by timoteiy on Sept 26, 2007 10:34:04 GMT -5
Wow, Thanks for the encouragement CleantoDay and Rockwell,
I wish I could say with belief that I am clean of this addiction, but I am not.
I slipped with masterbation last night. I had 9 days clean ( 30 days no porn) of masturbation.
It wasn't an isolatedslip, but part of an ongoing inner struggle I have with trying to get a 'maintenance dose" of my drug through fantasy thinking. I noticed that when I was in Vernon, ( a big city compared to where I live) I was doing alot of looking at women that was not healthy, and I knew it. I was making the ritual of having a smoke (I only smoke irregularly), and sitting there having a fantasy. Its like the addictive urge in me pushing, testing the boundaries that my my rational thinking has set up. If I didn't set the boundaries, I wouldn't hear the more subtle approaches of the addictive voice.
I am so used to the proccess that takes place that I don't even notice. I am just becomeing more and more aware of it now. It happens on the inside of me, and only I can figure out the process. I get immense relief from my debilitating shame when I hear other's that have had the same proccess go on inside them.
Every night I suffer from insomnia, and this is where the urge to masurbate is the strongest. My "addictive voice" says something like, "you're never going to get to sleep, mabe you should just entertain some erotic thoughts, get some wonderfull stimulation, just enough to make yourself feel better." I fight with it, say, "no way". More time passes, and sometimes a terrible thought strikes me like lightening. Last night, there were several. I had phone my wife when I got home to find out where the kids were, and she said, "Why do you care.?" I dwell on that. I think of the investigation and interogation I have to go through at work for last weeks incident. (its today) I swear, outloud, uncontrollably. Eventually the "addictive voice" takes a more confident tone: "To hell with it, no one cares about you, you're born alone, and you live alone, this pain will never end!" I think of this board, all the anger of the S.O.'s, the hurt, the shame. The addictive thinking takes this oportunity to point out the hypocricies of those who are always pointing fingers elsewhere. "Everyone does it, its just that everyone points a finger at you."
I think of how my wife had so much control over my life. She mentioned my addiction everytime I disagreed when she wanted to spend more and have more. I was Superman and she had discovered the weakening power that kryptonite had on me. Now, this is where the addictive voice gets creative: "Just do it in defiance. Its normal. Fight back." or, "You see what these people have been doing to you because you feel ashamed of yourself. It means nothing, you're not having a problem. Be proud, do it, damn them all!"
My addictive thinking blends in, disguising itself amongst rational thoughts, making little inferences that gently, if not violently, lead me back down the path towards sexual destruction.
I am well aware of the analogy of Satin, of the Devil, and his attempts. In contrast, I agree with Artic and other's who see talking about the 'addictive voice' as a simple metaphysical construct, that we engineer in order to isolate the thought processes that lead us to addiction. The difference can be seen as semantics, or in a religious way I suppose. The point is, I'm not looking to start a religion or become an expert on one that allready exists. I'm just looking to kick this addiction.
Even if the verdict is in that the majority of people have or do masturbate, and for many is just a normal human experience, it has become something else for me. It has become like a drug to numb feelings, feelings that have lined up behind a locked door awaiting their turn to be expressed. The "disease" has progressed over 20 or more years, steadily. I do remember when I was not so 'hooked', when I wasn't troubled by "looking", or porn, or all this shame,when I wasn't considered a freak by a "significant other".
Now a slip is competing with suicide, and I'm not quite ready for death. And so it goes, until my rational thoughts are undermined by me JUST NOT CARING anymore.
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Post by timoteiy on Sept 26, 2007 22:59:54 GMT -5
I survived 5 hours of intense interogation in an official investigation into my work incident last week. I'm sure glad there were 2 other guys with me in the same boat over the same thing. I'm going to make sure I'm good and tired so I don't have insomnia tonight
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Post by Clean2day on Sept 26, 2007 23:49:04 GMT -5
tim when I was in SA my sponsor told me that when/if I caught myself "looking lustfully" at someone or even a picture on a magazine I should pray for that person. What he really said was that God made us with a defect. We are not able to have two thoughts in different directions at a time. We can not lust and pray at the same time. I found it works, try it. Pray for that which you are looking at their family and friends. You will make it and if we hold each others hand nothing can bring us down. One Day At A Time C2d
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Post by arctic on Sept 27, 2007 1:56:08 GMT -5
Tim, that's such great news that you survived the interregation! Does that mean that they will definitely keep you on board, because that's kind of what I gathered from your post in our circle? I guess having two others in the same boat made a difference, because the employer is probably reluctant to lay off three people they've invested so much training in. I hope this will take some weight off your shoulders.
BTW, you say above, and have also alluded to in the circle, that your addictive voice blends in with your rational thoughts and thus maskerades itself as YOU. Remembering the definition of AV has helped me unmask my AV: addictive voice is any though, idea, or behaviour that supports our continued acting out. So if you take a thought and examine it, and find that the thought supports your acting out, no matter how indirect the support appears to be, and despite the thought seeming highly rational, that thought is AV.
Addictive voice is like the best used car salesman in the world. You trust it, you'll probably even like, but when you drive home in your newly acquired vehicle, the wheels fall off, and you think, that s.o.b!!!
Your friend, Arctic
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Post by timoteiy on Sept 27, 2007 11:52:46 GMT -5
Clean2day- I understand about the praying for the ones you find yourself looking at with lust. I know it helps me to think of them as real, thinking, feeling,vulnerable human beings just like myself. Sometimes this just disarms the lust look and the objectification and replaces it with a friendlier, more wholesome feeling. Thanks for the thought.
Artic.. I was the only engineer trainee. The other two were a conductor and the engineer that was training me. We were all considered equally responsible. WE all get '30-40 demerits (they can fire you at 60) We all got a wake up call and no damage was done.
We were given the download of the train ( it is very accurate, shows all locations accurately, all actions taken by engineer, pressures, throttles etc etc (many variables), radio voice recordings, even a video showing what is happening in front of train is abord.
It was just a simple case of all of us missing an advance signal. MY concern was to what degree they were going to go on about how the personal probelms in my life would effect whether or not I was able to keep the concentration. I answered questions related to this (in a room with 5 other guys) exactly as the union guys told me to answer. THey know of my personal dilema vis-a-vis my marital separation. The company medical records show that I take anti-depressants at present. The Employee and Family Assistance Program counsellor knows of my sex addiction (although this is suppoesed to be confidential. Although this is an 'easy to make mistake' the eyes would definitely be on me. Not just the eyes of the company brass, but Transport Canada. Thank you for asking. It was good to say this, and during typing this out I got a resolve that I will have to be "pro-active' in talking to managers and counsellors, and rectifying signal recognition by doing record keeping enroute( something that never gets done) etc.
I"M SOBER ANOTHER DAY.
And Artic- I don't trust any Used car Salesmen. (I guess I'm prejudiced and stereotype after all).
Yes I understand the addictive voice is any thought or idea that supports acting out. I hadn't thought of behavior as part of the addictive voice. I was focussing on the thought processes that LEAD to the behaviors. Alot of time, though, I do things without really thinking consciously beforehand that I am going to do them. Sometimes I react to EMOTIONS. IF I am to try to create a "story" or an "observation" for this addictive voice, how do I write in the behaviors and actions. Oh, I remember about you writing about "engineering a split personality" So am I to observe this as if the addictive personality has taken control of me? SHT I'm sorry for these wierd questions Artic, I WILL get the book.
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Post by amaninfull on Sept 27, 2007 16:10:52 GMT -5
Just a little thought about the Addictive Voice and behaviors. Since I don't really know enough about RR I won't use the phrase "Addictive Voice", I'll just put it in terms that I understand.
I find it helpful to think of thoughts as thoughts, and behaviors as behaviors. The power of behaviors is that they exist in the physical realm - i.e. it is *real time* you're spending with porn, time you'll never get back or be able to spend with your family, or exercising, etc; it's real physical abuse you're inflicting on your body (in my case it led to neck problems); etc. This goes the other way, too, of course: behavior can also have powerful positive effects. It can really change things outside of yourself.
Thoughts can't do any of that. They have no power in the physical world (we won't get into Kreskin territory for now). The power of thought is that it precedes behavior. All behavior (except reflex) has its first impulse in thought. And as humans, we have the ability to exercise some control over our thoughts - and thus, a great deal of control over our behavior.
Learning to recognize different trains of thought is absolutely invaluable. You may think of them as the Devil whispering in your ear (or God), or as a neural pathway, or what have you - doesn't matter: recognizing a train of thought when it appears is necessary if we are to stop that thought from leading to a behavior.
(Personally, I can recognize many different trains of thought if I really focus - the addictive being just one of them.)
The tricky bit is that there is a feedback loop between thought and behavior. As everyone knows, our thoughts can respond to things in the physical world. Seeing something may trigger a thought; something someone says can trigger a thought, etc. Even our own behaviors can trigger thoughts. If I pick up Maxim magazine, that action is bound pretty soon to trigger addictive thoughts. So I need to refrain from that behavior.
I'll bet you anything that you will know right off the bat when one of your behaviors falls into the category of your addiction. (Or in RR terms, perhaps, that it's a behavior of the AV.)
Hang in there, man. Suicide is not an option. If you are considering it as an option at any point, PM me and call your local hotline. OK?
AMIF
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Post by unico on Sept 27, 2007 17:13:53 GMT -5
Hi Timoteiy,
Sounds like you are having a hell of a bumpy ride at the moment. I am relieved that you got thru the recent work investigation with your job intact. I value your contributions to the Secular Circle, even if I do not post as extensively as others. Before I resolved to stop MB to porn media I was unbelievably depressed. I knew I could no longer continue as I was in my porning behaviour but i was terrified of giving up porn - I did not feel I could live my life without it. Then I had what was an epiphany for me - If I truly felt my life was not worth living without porn then my life was truly NOT worth living. It was the wakup call I needed to seriously set about changing my behaviour. I was told here on the board I would not be able to achieve lasting sobriety from porn without giving up MB but that just did not sit right with me. I was addicted to porn, I did not feel i was addicted to MB (but I was willing to keep an open mind on the subject, and change my strategy if required). I fought every single day till I reached 30 days, and my recovery got somewhat easier thereafter but it still took a lot of energy until I got to 60 days, thereafter things became easier still, and after reaching 100 days I felt a confidence that I could not of imagined at the outset. My confidence now does not mean i am complacent - I am still vigilant but I have broken the pattern of repeated relapsing in my resolve (my pattern before finding this board). Along the way I has discovered that I can use my computer now and NOT access porn. Before it was used almost exclusively to surf porn. I can MB without fearing i will relapse in my resolve not to access porn (I was told repeatedly, for the addict MB was not possible without serious risk of using porn again). I MB every couple of weeks, well within what i would call 'normal' but most importantly what has happpened since i have stopped porning my desire to MB has plummeted enormously - it was using porn that was driving the urge to MB frequently (as I had thought initially). I am only telling you all this because lastly and most importantly my outlook on life has improved considerably - I feel a sense of future now. Even if I feel symptoms of depression I know for certain my life is MANY MANY times better than the desperate hopeless state of addiction i left behind. Do whatever it takes to clock up those first 100 days, take it ONE DAY AT A TIME just like the 12 steppers do, but when you get there (and you will) consider looking into the Rational Recovery approach of saying you will NEVER look at porn again, ever. Seem impossible to you?, it certainly would have done for me at the outset, but with recovery time under your belt you will be able to see cleary the appeal of entertaining the idea that you can choose not to use again. Think, no more counting of days, what would be the point when you can say never with conviction. Enough, I hope i have at least given you something to think about. You can change your behaviour.
take care
Unico
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Post by amaninfull on Sept 28, 2007 18:20:28 GMT -5
Inspiring story, Unico. I'm working on my first 100 days. Like you, I did not swear off masturbation, though I kept an open mind about it, and like you I have reduced the frequency that I do - or rather, it has naturally fallen off, without the external stimulation of porn.
Be kind to yourself, Tim. You are actually having tremendous success. Let yourself see that sometimes.
: )
AMIF
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