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Post by completelydone on Aug 24, 2007 19:22:56 GMT -5
Same here. Everyone is different but I was in complete shock, the first stage of grief, on d day. Then came disbelief, then insecurity and sadness, then anger. When the anger hit is was horrible! It was like I WAS anger. I vacillated from loving my husband to hating him; from wanting to understand to wanting to kick the living you know what out of him. Then came extreme anguish and depression. But, now I can say I'm coming out of the tunnel. Not there yet, but it's a much better place than going in.
Have patience with her Witness, much understanding and patience.
Take care, CD
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Post by witness on Aug 24, 2007 19:33:40 GMT -5
The anger peeked out tonight. And who's to blame her? She said this news was like a dagger in the heart.
I've taken so much from her. She did not expect this nor deserve this.
I was motivated before to put this behind me. Now multiply that by 10 or 20. I am putting her through terrible agony.
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Post by witness on Aug 25, 2007 5:03:07 GMT -5
When trying to decide when I would tell her I knew I did not want to tell her at night as I was afraid that she would be up all night and not be able to get any sleep. That's why I told her yesterday morning. It appears that she slept pretty well last night. So for that I am thankful.
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Post by witness on Aug 25, 2007 6:19:01 GMT -5
I think I mentioned that we live overseas. That makes getting books more difficult.
Can any of you recommend threads here or other online recourses that my wife might read to educate her more on this subject so that she can understand and not feel like she is part of the problem?
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Post by LookingUp on Aug 25, 2007 8:35:12 GMT -5
A book I found helpful was Hosea - how he worked with Gomer after her unfaithfulness. Especially Hosea 3:3. I found this Bible teacher's insight into PA and her prayer insightful: www.libertysavard.com/keys_difficult_pornography.htmlPORN ADDICTION BOOKS Secular books I read to understand the psychology of sexual addiction: Books I read to understand the Biblical perspective of sexual sin:- An Affair of the Mind: One Woman's Courageous Battle to Salvage Her Family from the Devastation of p*graphy by Laurie Hall
- A Biblical Guide to Counseling the Sexual Addict by Steve Gallagher (excellent resource, I bought a copy for my pastor as a resource) www.purelifeministries.org/
- A Way of Escape: Freedom from Sexual Strongholds by Neil T. Anderson www.ficm.org
- Every heart Restored by Arterburn and Stoeker www.newlife.com/
- Every man's Battle by Arterburn and Stoeker www.newlife.com/
- False Intimacy by Schauymburg - excellent chapter on what porn addiction and children. Highly recommended. www.restoringsexualpurity.org/
- Fatal Attractions: Why Sex Sins Are Worse Than Others by Jack Hayford www.jackhayford.org/
- I Surrender All: Rebuilding a Marriage Broken by Pornography by Clay and Renee Crosse (This book made me sad because he recognized on his own he had a problem, found resources to help him get sober and recover, then confessed and repented to his wife - none of this sick cycle of her finding his porn, him denying or gaslighting, him saying he'll quit and lies to her again cycle - very tidy recovery.) www.holyhomes.org/
- Living with Your Husband's Secret Wars by Marsha Means
- Pure Desire: Helping People Break Free from Sexual Struggles by Ted Roberts - good book www.settingcaptivesfree.com/
Books I read to understand a Biblical perspective of any addictions:- Freedom from Addictions by Neil T. Anderson and Mike & Julia Quarles www.ficm.org
- Hiding From Love: How to Change the Withdrawal Patterns That Isolate and Imprison You by Dr. John Townsend cloudtownsend.com
- One Day at a Time: The Devotional for Overcomers – by Neil T. Anderson and Mike & Julia Quarles www.ficm.org
- Victory Over the Darkness by Neil T. Anderson www.ficm.org
- When Godly People Do Ungodly Things by Beth Moore
The Christian books I read to help me heal and to learn to cope and to heal the marriage:- Bonds that Make us Free: Healing our Relationships, Coming to Ourselves By C. Terry Warner
- Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud, Dr. John Townsend cloudtownsend.com
- Boundaries in Marriage by Dr. Henry Cloud, Dr. John Townsend cloudtownsend.com
- Deceived by Shame – Desired by God by Cynthia Spell Humbert
- Do You Think I'm Beautiful? Angela Thomas (a good book on building self-esteem – highly recommended) www.angelathomas.com
- Healing the Orphaned Heart by Casey Treat www.caseytreat.org
- How to act right when your Spouse acts wrong by Leslie Vernick www.leslievernick.com/
- How to be the Happy Wife of an Unsaved Husband by Linda Davis
- Intimacy: A 100-Day Guide to Lasting Relationships by Douglass Weiss (great book if both partners are committed to doing the work) www.drdougweiss.com/
- Lies Women Believe by Nancy DeMoss
- Lord, Change My Attitude...Before It's Too Late by James MacDonald www.harvestbible.org/
- Lord, is it Warfare? Teach Me to Stand. by Kay Arthur. She discusses methods to pray and the last two chapters discuss praying for a porn or sex addict. www.precept.org/
- Love Must Be Tough : New Hope for Families in Crisis by James Dobson (excellent resource on confronting, making boundaries and how to keep yourself safe) www.family.org/
- Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires, The Respect He Desperately Needs by Emerson, Dr. Eggerichs www.loveandrespect.com
- NLT Life Recovery Bible by: Stephen Arterburn www.newlife.com/
- Recovering From the Losses of Life by H. Norman Wright www.hnormanwright.com/
- Sacred Marriage: What If God Designed Marriage to Make Us Holy More Than to Make Us Happy? by Gary L. Thomas www.garythomas.com/ (excellent book for building or rebuilding a marriage)
- Saying Goodbye to Disappointments – Finding Hope When Your Dreams Don’t Come True by Jan and David Stoop
- Shattered by Shame: Crowned in Glory by Laurie Smucker
- The Excellent Wife: A Biblical Perspective by Martha Peace www.marthapeace.com/
- The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. www.fivelovelanguages.com
- The Five Languages of Apology Gary Chapman and Jennifer Thomas www.fivelanguagesofapology.com/ - great book to discover how to apologize in a way the partner can accept the apology. Very necessary after porn/sex betrayal.
- The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren (for rebuilding self-esteem) www.purposedriven.com/
- The Way of Agape: Understanding God’s Love by Chuck and Nancy Missler www.khouse.org
Videos we’re viewing to help us heal the marriage and learn better communication skills:Secular books I've read that were helpful:- Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie
- Guide to Getting it On by Paul Joannides – very graphic language and drawings but great explanation of the sexual response differences of men and women
- Intimacy Factor: The Ground Rules for Overcoming the Obstacles to Truth, Respect and Lasting Love by Pia Mellody and Lawrence S. Freundlich www.piamellody.com/
- Mars and Venus in the Bedroom by John Gray
- Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus by John Gray
- Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them : When Loving Hurts and You Don't Know Why by Susan Forward
- Quick to Listen, Slow to Speak by Robert E. Fisher
- When Your Lover Is A Liar: Healing The Wounds Of Deception And Betrayal by Susan Forward, Ph.D.
Books on Order and/or Books waiting to be read:- Captivating: Unveiling the Mystery of a Woman’s Soul by John and Stasi Elderidge
- Compelled to Control: Recovering Intimacy in Broken Relationships by J. Keith Miller
- Driven No More: Finding Contentment by Letting Go by Scott Walker
- Gift-Wrapped by God: For Every Woman who wants to protect her sexual purity – or reclaim it by Linda Dillow and Lorraine Pintus
- Sexual Shame: An Urgent Call to Healing by Karen A. McClintock
- Who Can You Trust: Overcoming Betrayal and Fear by Howard E. Butt, Jr.
Here's some books on my wish list:- 40 Minute Studies; How Can a Man Control His Thoughts, Desires, and Passions? by Bob Vereen
- Addicted to Love: Understanding Dependencies of the Heart: Romance, Relationships, and Sex by Stephen Arterburn www.newlife.com/
- Building Your Mate's Self-Esteem by Group Publishing
- Eros Defiled: The Christian and Sexual Sin by John White
- Finding Freedom in a Sex-Obsessed World by: Neil T. Anderson www.ficm.org
- Flesh: An Unbreakable Habit of Purity in a Pornographic World, Men's Edition by Rick James
- Gratitude: Affirming the Good Things in Life by Melody Beattie
- Healing the Shame That Binds You by John Bradshaw
- Healing the Wounds of Sexual Addiction by Gary Smalley
- Help! Someone I Know Has a Problem with Porn by Jim Vigorito and Bill Maier
- I Love You Unconditionally...on One Condition: Everyday Choices for an Extraordinary Marriage by Joey O'Connor
- Improving Communication in Your Marriage by Gary Rosberg
- Love Busters: Overcoming the Habits That Destroy Romantic Love by Willard F. Jr. Harley
- Love is a Choice by Dr. Robert Hemfelt, Dr. Frank Minirth, Dr. Paul Meier
- Love, Infidelity, and Sexual Addiction: A Codependent's Perspective by Christine A. Adams
- Love, Honor, & Forgive by Bill and Pam Farrel
- Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life by Byron Katie
- Men Are Like Waffles - Women Are Like Spaghetti by Bill Farrel
- My Husband Has A Secret:: Finding Healing for the Betrayal of Sexual Addiction by Molly Ann Miller
- NIV Freedom in Christ Bible By: Edited by Neil Anderson www.ficm.org
- Oops! I Forgot My Wife: A Story of Commitment as Marriage and Self-Centeredness Collide by Doyle Roth
- Out of the Depths of Sexual Sin by Steve Gallagher (founder of Pure Life Ministries)
- Partner's Recovery Guide: 100 Empowering Exercises by Douglas Weiss www.drdougweiss.com/
- Pornified: How Pornography Is Transforming Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families by Pamela Paul
- Praying the Bible for your Marriage by Heather Kopp
- Pure Freedom: Breaking the Addiction to Pornography by Mike Cleveland
- Radical Forgiveness by Julie Ann Barnhill
- Rekindling the Romance : Loving the Love of Your Life by Dennis Rainey
- Searching for Intimacy: Pornography, the Internet and the XXX Factor by Lyndon Bowing
- Sex Is Not the Problem (Lust Is): Sexual Purity in a Lust- Saturated World by Joshua Harris, Shannon Harris, Brian Smith
- Sex, Food, and God: Breaking Free from Temptations, Compulsions, and Addictions by David Eckman
- Shame: Thief of Intimacy (Unmasking the Accuser) by Marie Powers
- The Addictive Personality: Understanding the Addictive Process and Compulsive Behavior by Craig Nakken
- The Centerfold Syndrome: How Men Can Overcome Objectification and Achieve Intimacy with Women by Gary R. Brooks (highly recommended by SA/PAs on no-porn.com)
- The Dirty Little Secret: Uncovering the Truth Behind Porn Craig Gross, Carter Krummrich
- The Game Plan by Joe Dallas
- The Pornography Trap: Setting Pastors and Laypersons Free from Sexual Addiction by Ralph Earle
- The Secret in the Pew: Pornography in the Lives of Christian Men – Breaking the Bondage of Sexual Sin by David A. Blythe
- The Sinfulness of Sin by Ralph Venning
- The Walk-Out Woman : When Your Heart is Empty and Your Dreams Are Lost by Dr. Steve Stephens, Alice Gray
- When His Secret Sin Breaks Your Heart by Kathy Gallagher
A Few Web Sites:How to find a certified SA/PA Therapist: sash.net/component/option,com_mtree/Itemid,55/ = will need to be copied and pasted. Various articles for the SO and how to tell children: www.jenniferschneider.com/articles.html Audio SermonsSome of these will need to be copied and pasted to work - and on the Comiskey one, remove the space after the / LookingUp
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Post by dazednconfused on Aug 25, 2007 9:03:35 GMT -5
My husband confessed to me too. I am one of the very few on the board. We have been working recovery for 18 months together. It took about 6 months for our recovery plans to be developed (his, mine and ours). It took a few weeks for everything to really sink in and to get through "what's next" it was not a pleasent 3 weeks... but I can categorically say that our marriage is better and stronger now than it was right before he told me. And I can tell you if it weren't for learning how to communicate with each other again (and be truly emotionally, spiritually and intellectually intimate), our marriage wouldn't have survived the past year (without the addiction issues). It took me so long to decide to confess. Now she doesn't seem to want to talk about it. I suppose it is just too much for her and that she needs some time. She does need time. Remember, this addiction and your recovery have been a part of your knowledge for much longer. She is playing "catch-up" to a degree. As she proceses this, there will also be questions like "do you remember when we did... in the smmer of 1987 and you..., was that about prn?" She is trying to piece together things that have bothered her over time that she couldn't make sense out of. Be as honest aas you can. Things she remembers you really may not. This passes too. She will either decide that you are not that person anymore and move forward, or she will relive the pain and work through it. I hope for the first, but either brings her forward, A site besides this one that was very helpful to me concerning recovery was recoverynation.com. It has little articles and reflection questions. It will help her work through feeling inadequit (all SO's feel this, whether we are 25 or 50), that prn is an addiction (not just something "guys do"), realizing this is not about sex and information about healing from the pain of this addiction. Settingcaptivesfree also has a wife section. I started it, but honestly did not continue it, but others have said it is very good. Books that I have found helpful: Out of the Shadows by Patrick Carnes Pure Desire by Ted Roberts (christian- gives a good balance of the spirituality of addiction and the psychology too) Addiction and Grace by Gerald May And for rebuilding commuinication and trust in our marriage: 7 Levels of Intimacy by Matthew Kelly (helped us write a marriage recovery plan) Praying with the one you love by Art Hunt And I have found great wisdom and healing in many Max Lucado books. There are a ton of books both my husband and I have read for our recoveries over the last year. There are also many websites we have used. I don't know if you said you've done the settingcaptivesfree website, but my husband gained a lot from the daily bible study format. Peace and good luck- dazed
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Post by Benderson on Aug 25, 2007 11:53:35 GMT -5
Answer her questions honestly and without defensiveness. Do not display resentment while she works this out for herself. The more of an open and willing spirit you are, the more you're helping her to heal.
....and if she's willing to come here, we're more than happy to wrap her in a big warm hug.
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Post by witness on Aug 26, 2007 14:37:37 GMT -5
We are still alive . . . barely. She is very hurt and very upset. This has been like a dagger in her heart. I have mentioned to her that she could come here and talk to you ladies but she hasn't wanted to yet.
I have hurt her so deeply. Her heart is broken and she thinks it will never be the same again.
I was such a fool. How did I let myself get caught up in this? When she asks me why did I do this? Do I not love her? All of my answers sound so pathetic.
If I had looked at where all of this was leading I would have somehow put and end to this years ago. Now there is no changing the past nor the pain that she is going though in the present.
I was so wrong. Dead wrong.
Now I just can't EVER go back to it again. I must run at the very scent of lust. NO, has to be on the tip of my tounge and written across my eyelids.
I have deeply hurt the one I love with all my heart! (But she says, if you really did love me you would NEVER have done what you did! And she is right.)
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Post by Disillusioned on Aug 26, 2007 17:19:17 GMT -5
I am sorry for the pain you both are going thru. Sometimes it feels to me/us SO's/ that it's a nightmare and we just want to wake up.
I do believe you did the right thing. She deserved the truth. We all do.
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Post by Benderson on Aug 26, 2007 23:27:23 GMT -5
No truthful answer is ever pathetic.
She's going to grieve for a while. She's mourning the loss of the relationship and marriage she thought she had. Part of that grief is anger; and there might be plenty of it. Be there to listen, be there to comfort; and be her soft place to fall. She'll let you know which one she needs at whatever time she needs it.
....and never, NEVER doubt that you did the right thing. You absolutely did.
(((witness&mrswitness)))
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Post by witness on Aug 27, 2007 5:03:25 GMT -5
She is trying to love me again. But it is not easy.
This morning I woke up at 5 AM. She was lying in bed beside me sobbing. I have hurt her so much. She feels used, inferior, inadequate, betrayed.
I pray that one day she can be whole again.
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Post by Benderson on Aug 27, 2007 7:47:05 GMT -5
It's still VERY fresh--not even a week yet. (((mrswitness))) You two will come out stronger on the other side as you continue to grow in your recovery. For now, my heart breaks for you both.
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Post by witness on Aug 27, 2007 8:08:09 GMT -5
One of the hardest things about this is that in the past, whenever anything bad came up in our lives, I was there to comfort my wife.
Now I am the problem. I am what is bad. She can't find much comfort from me.
Saying that I let her down is a tremendous understatement.
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Post by nowheretobefound on Aug 27, 2007 9:24:05 GMT -5
Is there anyone else that she has gone to for comfort in the past? A good friend? Another leader in your church?
It will take her time to get through greiving and no one can say how long that will be... not even Mrs. Witness. She is greiving a loss that is severe... the marriage she thought she had and the trust she had in you. The positive thing about this grief is that you can be there for her (even if she isn't getting comfort from it right now) to answer all of her questions, to show her how serious you are about recovery and to rebuild the trust (as long as that may take... and the truth is witness that it may never come back again fully... but it can).
Like the others said, you absolutely did the right thing in telling the truth, the mistake you made as not doing it from the start. You fixed the mistake as best you could today and it sounds like Mrs. Witness is going to be trying to heal as best she can at her pace (she will only ever be able to go at her pace - with God's hand gently pushing her). Don't you push her though... EVER. It is like another blow to the head if/when the partner who has lied in any manner at any time says 'why can't you trust me yet'... aka... 'please get over this now so I can be okay'.
Patience and understanding and truthful communication... it's a slow process usually but it's a necessary one to have a real marriage.
Try not to beat yourself up. Feel the proper feelings (and recognize the improper/addict feelings - resentment/blame/a desperate want for it to all just go away/etc.) but don't linger in them... instead, use all the time that would be wasted on feeling sorry for yourself (not saying you're there now or will be, but if...) doing anything you can to rebuild the trust you have broken with your actions and covering up of actions.
You can do this witness. It won't be easy but you can do this... others on the board have and they say there marriages are better than they ever were. Remember that through all this pain (yours and your wifes) their will be growth.
Sorry you are both hurting. Amie
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Post by JohnG on Aug 27, 2007 9:34:31 GMT -5
Witness, I want to offer my support and congratulations on having taken a very difficult and absolutely necessary step. I wish to emphasize, based on my own experience, what the SO's have already said about being patient and that it will likely take a very long time for your wife to process this information. I started recovery in January, my partner ended our relationship two months later when I disclosed my addiction to her, and she is still processing it. There was an incredible amount of anger - more than I ever thought she was capable of. My own difficulties in receiving that anger were a function of my own lack of understanding of the destruction I had wreaked on her at so many levels. I had lied to her, undermining her ability to trust not just me but others; I had committed infidelities in my mind almost every day of our relationship. I had enslaved her by denying her the freedom to make choices about her own life based on facts rather than lies. I had manipulated her and I had used her for my own selfish purposes. I had undermined her sense of self-worth, self-esteem and her trust in herself as a judge of character. And finally, I destroyed a relationship that was at one time, according to her, the most important thing in her life. There was virtually no level at which I had not assaulted her. And yet my ignorance led me more than once to suspect that she was, if not exactly blowing things out of all proportion, certainly exaggerating a bit. Her emotions and view of me and our past relationship have evolved and re-evolved and changed constantly over the intervening six months. I found that assumptions based on communications weeks or months after my disclosure were not safe. We still talk on the phone and at times she admits that she misses me but a week later something might trigger her (not necessarily me - it could be something she hears in a conversation, the television, in the newspaper, etc., that reminds her) and she rages at me on the phone. It can be impossible to know how to react at times. Her assertion that I never loved her might be made with the hope that I will protest and tell her that she is wrong and that not every element of our life was a lie, that despite the evidence to the contrary, I did love her... or it could be her daring me to contradict her because such an absurd contention will simply prove that I still just a self-serving liar. I have heard addicts say of their partners in these situations (and I myself have felt at times) that, "I can't win, no matter what I say, I am wrong." This sentiment derives from the sense of entitlement that many of us cultivate - a sense that we should be able to confess our sins with the expectation that shortly all will return to normal. Every situation is different but it is probably safe to say that you are both in store for a long roller coaster ride. It is up to you to prepare for it and do the best you can to restore her trust and provide whatever support you can. This process will likely last years, if not a lifetime, if my reading in this very forum is any guide. Explaining your addiction to her will be difficult because we don't really know why we did it - all we have are theories. I found that the time to try to address this subject was never when she was upset. At times she will be calm and ask "why?" and that is the time (in my opinion) to try to explain, if you can. I am also of the belief that if you are unsure of something, you must be honest about that rather than to offer up canned theories that may or may not fit your circumstances. She may learn very quickly to listen to her own intuition and if your explanation sounds hollow or contrived she could take that as minimization or, worse, an attempt at further deception. If you don't know the answer to a question, say so. Be honest at all times and be sure to never minimize - as you have seen the partners are very (and understandably) sensitive to that. Let her be the judge of what is "not as bad as" or "could have been worse." To her it may not feel like it could be any worse or she may simply detect in such comparisons a lack of validation of her own feelings. In the basic text of Alcoholics Anonymous, there is some discussion of the "why" that is, I believe, very relevant to us: ______________________________________________________ Why does he behave like this? If hundreds of experiences have shown him that one drink means another debacle with all its attendant suffering and humiliation, why is it he takes that one drink? Why can't he stay on the water wagon? What has become of the common sense and will power that he still sometimes displays with respect to other matters? Perhaps there never will be a full answer to these questions. Opinions vary considerably as to why the alcoholic reacts differently from normal people. We are not sure why, once a certain point is reached, little can be done for him. We cannot answer the riddle.
We know that while the alcoholic keeps away from drink, as he may do for months or years, he reacts much like other men. We are equally positive that once he takes any alcohol whatever into his system, something happens, both in the bodily and mental sense, which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop. The experience of any alcoholic will abundantly confirm this.
These observations would be academic and pointless if our friend never took the first drink, thereby setting the terrible cycle in motion. Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind, rather than in his body. If you ask him why he started on that last bender, the chances are he will offer you any one of a hundred alibis. Sometimes these excuses have a certain plausibility, but none of them really makes sense in the light of the havoc an alcoholic's drinking bout creates. They sound like the philosophy of the man who, having a headache, beats himself on the head with a hammer so that he can't feel the ache. If you draw this fallacious reasoning to the attention of an alcoholic, he will laugh it off, or become irritated and refuse to talk.
Once in a while he may tell the truth. And the truth, strange to say, is usually that he has no more idea why he took that first drink than you have. Some drinkers have excuses with which they are satisfied part of the time. But in their hearts they really do not know why they do it. Once this malady has a real hold, they are a baffled lot. There is the obsession that somehow, someday, they will beat the game. But they often suspect they are down for the count.
______________________________________________________ Please know that if you need anything at all you have but to ask. Your friend always, JohnG
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