I'm new - Hope I'm not breaking the rules...

[imparanoid]

For posting the same topic on 2 forums?
I'm not sure where the best place to get help is so I thought I'd try both

I THINK I'M GOING MAD!!!

Here's what I have posted on the partners forum:

Hi everyone!

I came across this site today and had to join just as a way to talk to someone about how I'm feeling.

I stupidly thought a few weeks ago that my husband could be addicted to P. I laughed it off at the time but after looking around this site, he falls into so many categories and has so many traits people are mentioning here.

I have been snooping around the PC at home on and off for a while. I hadn't done it for ages and it was only the other day when I was looking for an old site I had been to that I came across loads of time spent on a paid site.

I have always known he checks it out and downloads and shares with his mates but paying for it and viewing it at breakfast time (I leave the house early) when I'm in the bathroom and basically any time I am out of the house is starting to get to me.

I am not anti P and we have watched it together lots in the past but I feel like this is too much. I brought it up at the weekend (and totally screwed up the way I approached it!!) I was the one who ended up apologizing because he said he was really annoyed with me and said it was really difficult living with someone who was watching him all the time. He said I should respect his privacy and the way I am behaving is not normal.

We have joked about it since and he said he will watch less but I just don't believe him. If he has brought time on a paid site I just know he is going to go back there if he hasn't already. I categorically said that I don't want him to stop (I don't feel like I have the right to do that) but it has been eating away at me the last few days and I'm not sure how to deal with it.

I have always been quite liberal to these things but just recently have been looking at it in a different way. - I suppose the main question I want answering is why is he doing it such much?

I deep down believe that he knows he watches too much but don't want to keep bringing it up because I am rubbish at these things and he always makes me feel like I am in the wrong.

I haven't got anyone I can talk to face to face about this, so if there's anyone out there who can help I'd be really grateful

Thanks

[Webmaster]

Welcome to the board. This post was very painful to read. I know that it will get a lot of replies, especially on the partners forum, so check in often.

It can be challenging in a marriage when one partner's values change, but part of marriage is growing with our partners. It sounds like you see his pornography use as no longer merely recreational, but rather more compulsive. And it bothers you that he is prioritizing his so-called privacy and his use of pornography above your feelings. It sounds like he has tried to invalidate your feelings on this issue, and you know you deserve more respect than that.

Welcome to the board. It may be a bumpy road ahead, but you are definitely not alone. There may be a variety of ideas from all kinds of people. Take the best, leave the rest.

Wes

[breakingfree]

Hello Imparanoid,

Posting here is probably a good idea. You will get feedback from PA's as well as SO's of addicts.

I am a PA with a 15 year plus history of out of control addiction
As an addict I CAN'T comment on

I have always been quite liberal to these things but just recently have been looking at it in a different way. - I suppose the main question I want answering is why is he doing it such much?

because ANY amount is TOO much for me.

Is he an addict? I will make one comment and allow others to give you more feedback. RE

I brought it up at the weekend (and totally screwed up the way I approached it!!) I was the one who ended up apologizing because he said he was really annoyed with me and said it was really difficult living with someone who was watching him all the time. He said I should respect his privacy and the way I am behaving is not normal

. My wife never apologized but my reaction to her confrontations was VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL especially

the way I am behaving is not normal

An addict with out of control behavior is the first to respond with self-righteous BS indignation and throw it back on his significant other and label their behavior as "not normal".

Like all addicts in full denial, I HAVE to be very convincing in my "I'm okay, you're not" arguments with my wife, because this helps reinforce MY conviction that I'm okay and keep my denial intact.

Okay, just one more comment. In 15 years of totally out of control P***ing on the net, I never once paid for it. Why, because felt there was so much free stuff out there and somewhere deep inside me, hiding under multiple layers of denial, was a little voice saying, "once you start paying , maybe your behavior is out of control"

bf

[imparanoid]

Thank you breakingfree.

Its funny you should bring up the paying for it part.

Up until a few months ago he would actually boast that he had never paid for porn and that there is so much free stuff out there, you don't need to.

I'm just so confused at the moment I don't know what to think or do

When I asked him about it the other day and told him I thought he watched it too much (according to Internet history, he was on the site for 4 hours when I was out) he made me feel stupid and said "Its not like I sit there W****ing all day, I just have it on while I am doing other things" Thats what grossed me out more. I would rather he watched it occasionally (like I thought he used to and actually got something out of it)

[breakingfree]

he made me feel stupid and said "Its not like I sit there W****ing all day, I just have it on while I am doing other things

BEEN THERE. DONE THAT. SAID THAT. If I had a buck for each time I said that I would be having lunch with my good buddy Bill Gates.

I would rather he watched it occasionally

Again I can only respond to this as a recovering addict.

For me THERE IS NOT, WILL NOT, CANNOT, EVER BE ANY OCCASIONALLY.

Paraphrased from an old AA saying, "One picture(drink) is too many. A thousand, never enough."

It might be useful for you to examine his behavior as an addiction in the general sense, rather than a P*** addiction. ALL addictive behavior is the same. Google addiction and read the definitions and answer the addiction surveys and see how many additive criteria he meets.

IF HE IS AN ADDICT.
HE IS NOT GOING TO ROLL OVER AND ADMIT IT.
DENIAL KEEPS US SAFE, HELPS KEEP THE BEAST IN CHECK.

bf

[imparanoid]

how do I even begin to broach this subject with him?
He gets quiet and moody if I even mention him and P. Lord only knows how he will react if I start taking about addictions.

I'm so happy to have responses from people today but it feels like talking about it is just fueling me inside to explode when I get home and thats the last thing I want.

[raisinbran]

Hi, imparanoid,

Although I am not married, I am a porn addict, have been for about 3 years, I have been here long enough to feel qualified to make the following statement:


Like wes implied, you are on the brink of a total paradigm shift. You are going to learn what porn addiction is, what effect it has on marriages, on people. You are going to learn what symptoms are indicative of an addiction (some of which you already described). You are also going to hear or read about many, many opinions from wives that are in your situation. Wes said it correctly, the road will be a long bumpy one. But the first step on this road is recognizing that something is not right, which you seem to have. Coming to this board is the first positive action.

I suggest that you continue to read, and learn more about pornography addiction, before you confront your mate. Maybe spend a few days reading up on it. You may find that after learning more about this, you will be able to formulate a much better approach to him than to explode. Exploding is probably tempting, but I doubt that it is the best approach.

But I'm sure the SOs (significant others) who are married to porn addicts will offer much more valuable insight.

Take care, and keep reading.

[tw45]

Hi imparaniod

I am married and have fought this addiction for many years. Because of religious teachings I have always believed that it was unacceptable, however I also realize that much of the world not only condones but encourages such behaviour today.

I agree with the advice to begin educating yourself, the more you understand about addiction and specifically pornography the more capable you are to cope. Unfortunately it will not be easy. Perhaps if you can discuss how it makes you feel and why it bothers you, if you can to this openly and honestly without blame or accusation it would be a great place to start. It will be a process of education for both of you and you can not force him to change until it comes from within himself. I wish you strength, patience and hope.

One other thing he obviously doesnt realize how truly lucky he is. To have a wife who is patient, and loving and supportive without condeming has been my greatest blessing.

[amaninfull]

Hi,

Most would say your husband is addicted, but until he says it, it hardly matters what anyone else would say. What matters is this: his porn use is causing material damage to himself and those around him. It is doing damage in this way (and there may be more ways, too, this is just what I know from your posts): it is damaging his marriage.

I don't think you can do anything to "fix" him, certainly not if he doesn't want to be fixed, but what you can do is *tell him* that his porn use is damaging his marriage (and any other damage that you observe caused by it); let him know that you are unwilling to live with this amount of porn use, and then let him decide what he wants to do about it. This implies, of course, that you are willing to stand behind your beliefs about what you can and cannot live with.

You may also want to let him know that you have found this board and that you think he might learn a thing or two from coming here and reading some posts. (I would recommend the recovery journals and accountability circles, as opposed to the other forums.)

Best of luck.

AMIF

[breakingfree]

I am going to offer a dissenting opinion about "waiting" to talk to husband.

I am also making one assumption, that he is an addict.

Why wait to confront him. If he is an addict, then he is denial. You getting smarter about addiction isn't going to reduce or decrease his denial.

There is no "argument" that education is going to give you. You are not going to talk him out of his denial or his addiction.
Why put off the inevitable.

IT TOOK ME 15 YEARS OF DENIAL BEFORE I FINALLY SAID " I AM AN ADDICT".

Do you know how many conversations (more like monologues) I had with my wife before I had an Epiphany and eyes were opened. Want to argue about P addiction with me. I can argue circles around almost anyone that it isn't an addiction. He**, I can quote research studies and degreed professionals. Mrs BF can verify all this and how totally FULL OF MYSELF AND FULL OF CR** I WAS.

There are no guarantees in addiction and recovery. There are no BEST times to start recovery or to confront an addict.

THERE IS ONLY NOW. Don't wait for tomorrow, by the time it arrives it may be too late.

As always, IMHO,

bf

[raisinbran]

If you decide to do it today, like bf suggests, please think over very carefully how you are going to approach this problem.

This is kinda one of those things... I would argue that porn addiction is like some sort of "monster" or "beast". It may very well be (if your husband is, in fact, addicted, something that we can't really judge) that you're about to face the beast in the arena. I suggested that you learn more about the addiction because, just like you wouldn't want to be totally unprepared to face the beast in the arena, likewise you would not want to confront the addiction unprepared. Because, when facing the beast, you make the wrong move, that may spell disaster; likewise if you approach this badly, it may, at least, strain your relationship.

I do agree with BF. You have to take decisive action. Don't put it off thinking it will go away. I just think you're at a point where you need to think things through before proceeding forward. It might not give you an argument against the addiction, but you will at least have a better idea how a p addict works. And I guess learn more about what goes on in the mind of a PA.

Just my thoughts. Again, don't be quick to assume that your husband is addicted. Just think things through.

[facingit]

This is difficult. As hard as it is to be a PA, I think it must be harder to be an SO because you have NO control. I am glad I came to the conclusion that I am a PA on my own before my SO brought it up to me because I don't know what my reaction would have been. It's a great question - probably one that will be better answered in the SO's forum - how do you tell someone something he is not ready to hear?

[imparanoid]

I just thought I' give you a quick update on how it went:

Well, I finally plucked up the courage to talk to him about the P last night.

It didn't start well because he got angry with me very quickly for beating around the bush. So, I got straight to the point and I told him I thought he had a problem. All he kept saying was, "Fine, I'll delete it all if its that important to you!" - The thing is, thats not it. The thing thats important to me is for him to stop surfing for it so much and doing it as soon as I leave the house in the mornings. Its really hurtful and I told him that. (I have barely driven to the end of the road some mornings)

I asked him why he does it and thats when he really lost it. He refused to answer me and then tried to make me feel bad for ruining what was a perfectly happy evening. - How dare he!!!

He actually said he did not want to talk about it at all and that I annoyed him because I was being so rational and calm. - I didn't want to raise my voice because I thought that would make things worse. I told him I was amazed by his reaction and that I had never seen him react to anything in this way before. His answer to that was "because I keep going on and on about it" He is normally so laid back about things and we rarely raise our voice at each other. - I almost couldn't believe my eyes when he was ranting about it. After reading some of the story's here it was so similar it scared me a bit.

I refuse to let this bring me down, after last night, I genuinely believe he has a problem with this but I really feel its impossible to talk to him about it.

We went to bed with an atmosphere and went to work without hardly talking. - Talk about bury your head in the sand!!

I really don't know what to do now, One minute I think I should just try to accept this, (I always used to when I thought it was occasional, like I said the other day, I used to think it was cool that he checked it out, cause thats what real guys do) the other I feel sick of the thought of him spending so much time doing it. Googling specific girls and researching them is just too much as far as I'm concerned!

I know there won't be anyone here who can really help but it helps in a way just to get it down.

Thanks for listening.

[LookingUp]

imparanoid said:

how do I even begin to broach this subject with him?
He gets quiet and moody if I even mention him and P. Lord only knows how he will react if I start taking about addictions.

It sounds like he can control you by his moodiness - my husband did that to me for a few years, too. Since it worked, why not use that tactic - - he could keep his porn and me!

I finally decided I'd speak my truth and if he got moody, he got moody - but I wasn't going to let him control me any more. I've found using this sentence structure worked: "I feel <emotion> when you do <behavior>." Then I'd drop it - I'd spoken my truth. "I feel disrespected when you look at other women's naked bodies." "I feel fearful when you rant at me when I talk about this." "I feel invisible and unloved when you get moody and refuse to talk." That's not telling him to change his behavior - he can continue to do whatever - but it lets him know how he is perceived by me. I don't think that ever got a response - but it made me feel good about me because I (1) wasn't telling him how to act; and (2) was speaking my truth gently and lovingly.

I figured since he couldn't hear my words, maybe he could read my words. About 2.5 to 3 years ago, after finding more porn (after he promised he'd quit many times), I handed him my recovery plan and moved into the spare bedroom. That finally got his attention without me saying a word. He couldn't "mood" me out of my truth if I wasn't even around him and I was the one being quiet and distant. I think he's been porn-free for almost 12 months now and over the past month, it seems he's finally making some movement to trying to connect in other, more healthy ways.

My recovery plan is linked at the bottom of my posts.

LookingUp

[breakingfree]

Imparanoid,

Congratulations for the courage it took to make the first step to confront him . RE

His answer to that was "because I keep going on and on about it" He is normally so laid back about things and we rarely raise our voice at each other. - I almost couldn't believe my eyes when he was ranting about

BEEN THERE DONE THAT-FOR FIFTEEN YEARS.

In MY bags of tricks and manipulative behavior

Silent Treatment- don't talk to her for hours or days until she feels guilty for confronting me

Lashing Out in righteous indignation and anger, " How dare You!

Make Her Feel Guilty- "We were having a great evening until you ruined it by bring up you petty insecurities""

Rational Approach- This is my best. Calmly explain to her how P is NOT an addiction, using logic and quoting definitions of addiction while doing my best to make her feel insecure and stupid by pointing out that after all, I DO have a graduate degree in Clinical Psych and you didn't finish college.

What you should you do? Sorry I wish I could give you that answer. I can only tell you that the above description of my denial behavior went on for fifteen years. My wife did put up with it and I am now out of denial (I think) and in recovery but she only stayed with me because SHE IS A BETTER PERSON THAN I. SHE REMAINED TRUE TO OUR VOWS EVEN THOUGH I DID NOT. AND MAYBE, JUST MAYBE SHE STILL SAW SOMETHING IN ME WORTH WAITING FOR.

bf