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Post by JohnG on Jan 27, 2007 5:22:06 GMT -5
DAY 17
No time - but here I am.
For the next 24 hours, no P/MB. Just for today. Doesn't sound so hard.
Have a great weekend all!
JohnG
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Post by reconstituting on Jan 27, 2007 16:44:41 GMT -5
Thank you for that thoughtful little message in my journal - it tipped me over from just having a look here to expressing a few thoughts, which is probably a good thing.
Good luck with your recovery
Recon
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Post by JohnG on Jan 28, 2007 16:56:41 GMT -5
DAY 18
I don't have much time on weekends but I wanted to check in.
I am doing fairly well. A couple of troubling things this weekend - points to expand on tomorrow:
1. I had a very vivid dream within a dream yesterday. I dreamed that I was having an erotic dream and then woke up and found that I had started MBing in my sleep. Then, I had a whole debate with myself about whether that was a slip... Then I woke up for real and imagine my relief.
2. Yesterday I looked four or five times at a woman who was sitting at another table at a cafe. I could not see her body - but she had a very wholesomely beautiful face. It was not a lust driven impulse (there was nothing erotic in my interest), but it was an impulse. I don't know what to do with that, but I was disturbed that despite spending a lot of time thinking that I should not be looking at this woman I looked several times.
3. I have had more background noise for the past couple of days. My this I mean I have had to block out some images and thoughts - I had no trouble shuffling them out, but it was discouraging to have them after several days of nothing. I had even gotten past having to do the "bouncing eyes" routine for a couple of days. I knew this was temporary (that is, that I would not get over it that easy) but I enjoyed having a couple of days of peace and to have to hear the static again is bothersome. Oh well.
4. I had relations with my GF this morning. It was a mixed experience. I have made some progress but was reminded once again that I have much work ahead of me. I will expand more on this tomorrow. I just wanted to keep myself honest and get it out there quickly.
Just for today, No P, No MB.
Until tomorrow.
JohnG
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Post by MJ on Jan 28, 2007 20:15:56 GMT -5
Hey JohnG, Thanks for the update. When you get a chance, check out my journal entries from the past few days. I always appreciate your feedback. Your friend, MJ
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Post by JohnG on Jan 29, 2007 7:49:37 GMT -5
DAY 19
I don't know what to make of the dreaming. I suppose that it a fairly normal and since there is nothing I can do about it I am not going to sweat it. It is actually encouraging as the question of P/MB and my recovery has become central enough to my thinking that it is a recurring topic in my dreams.
My thoughts about the girl I was looking at yesterday: It was not erotic in nature. In fact, I got that feeling we sometimes might get when we see a cute girl that looks like she would make a good mother, wife, gf, etc... I have not talked about this issue before - since I have been in my current relationship for a long time it has not been much of an issue, but in the past, when I have been single, I seemed to fall for girls pretty easily. If they were sweet it didn't matter too much how incorrect the match was, I would "fall inlove." I know that emotional entanglements can be an issue - even an addiction. I recognize that this has been an issue in the past - not as bad as for some that I have seen, but it is something that I need to be very very aware of. I don't want my recovery to be derailed when I am single again by "falling in love" with someone. I use quotes as I think the term is incorretly used often. I have often fed my addictive personality with romantic thoughts.
So - as to the girl yesterday, she looked like the kind of woman I could use in that way to feed my addiction. Looking at her was feeding another mouth on the same beast. I rationalized it at the moment by saying, "but I am not looking at her "(expletive) or t!ts or imagining her in a sex act - quite the contrary..." ________________________________________________________________________________________________
Background noise.
Over the weekend, and maybe friday too, I was feeling some low-level noise - I was AWARE of what is beneath the surface - more than I had been for a couple of days. Today I am noticing it too. I can tell that my defenses need to be notched up today. I don't like having to live this way but there it is. And in time I believe the obsession will be lifted. Patience. I often think when reading others' journals, "oh, he is getting too confidnent, if he isn't careful..." or "don't think that because you haven't had any 'urges' for the past five days that you are anywher near out of the woods..." So I need to remember my own words. _________________________________________________________________________________________________
So the relations with GF: I remained mostly P image free for the duration of our love-making (if it can be called that yet). I was concious of a few things: a few images that popped up, my own reluctance to banish them, the fact that a couple of times I embraced the images, the fact that I was aware of this and engaged in an internal debate while this was going on, the fact that the debate did not affect my performance, the fact that I maintained eye contact with my GF the whole time (something that I could not do before because eye contact distracted me and impaired my ability to maintain good P images in my mind), and the fact that I banished the images before I finished, and that I was able to finish without using P images as a crutch.
As I indicated yesterday, the experience was mixed. I think the above demonstrates why. I had some successes but there is still a real struggle going on to keep my mind clean and clear - one that I am not always winning.
I am not ready to give up relations with my GF yet. I believe that I can still detox without total abstinence - the level of chemical buildup will decline at my current level of activity (relations about once a week). Another important question I need to look at - why do I want to have relations with GF? Is this a mere substitute for MB? I don't need to answer that today but I must think about it.
I have had a phone conversation with another P addict and I feel encouraged - two addicts talking can be considered a "meeting" so I have had my first SLAA/SAA meeting. We are going to talk again tomorrow. I feel a lot of hope that I didn't feel a few short weeks ago.
I have to get a few things done (not much really) but I will check back later.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 29, 2007 8:07:38 GMT -5
Something that I became aware of recently and I want to stop:
I don't know if it has anything to do with my recover, but I often hold onto my thing in a non-erotic way. I just put my hand in my pants and hold it. It could be while on the phone, watching a National Geographic special, whenever. In the car, I put my right hand between my thighs (as if to keep my hand warm). It is weird, and as I have said, non-erotic or sexual. But it has been bothering me becaus it seems a dangerous thing to do now, as I could easily sexualize it I think.
More on that later.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 29, 2007 9:23:22 GMT -5
Trigger at the gas station about 15 minutes ago:
Magazine cover, standing in line, in Spain they put topless women on magazine covers (some not all of course) and I was just zoning out and BAM, topless woman in my face! I looked away automatically - good, then felt sorry for myself for not being able to look - then started down the self-pity road for not being able to ever look at naked women again, focusing on the "never" word.
Forget never. Just for today, I will not look at P/MB. If I want to do that it can wait until tomorrow.
JohnG
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Post by ghodge5 on Jan 29, 2007 9:40:14 GMT -5
Well hang in there JohnG and keep it together. Thanks again for your support man. Be good. Congrats on your perseverance almost 20 days. I am happy for you.
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Post by JohnG on Jan 29, 2007 11:05:04 GMT -5
Thanks Ghodge,
Note to self:
Do not post in "Re: Should Porn Be Illegal" I have said this before, I just need to renew it when I feel tempted.
JohnG
EDIT: Thank you Wes for locking that thread. It was distracting to me, as you point out, imagine what it must be like for newbies? I was lucky to get out of it and stay out once I saw where it was going.
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Post by JohnG on Jan 29, 2007 11:49:06 GMT -5
Another note to self:
Under my old definition of P I had been a month (more or less) without it before - once, quite a while ago. But I was MBing and using non-nude pics, pics of old lovers, scenes from R rated movies, etc... I thought this was "not really porn." The longest I had ever gone without MB (since starting around 12-13 years old) was 14 days - on a trip with my Dad - we were in the same room and I never had a chance. This was in Egypt. I was so desperate by the time he left (I spent the last night in Cairo alone at the hotel) that I MB'd to Arabic music videos - and trust me, the women in them were not showing much.
Today, things are better.
I plan to keep it that way for the next 24 hours.
Until tomorrow.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 29, 2007 14:08:15 GMT -5
A clarification about what P is for me:
P in the classic sense of the word + anything that acts as a substitute or stimulates my addict brain. Also - any stories - I have not used these since I started on the board and consider them P but wanted to clarify it in writing: I consider stories to be P.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 30, 2007 6:40:20 GMT -5
DAY 20
Well, I just had a second phone conversation/meeting with another addict and I feel like a nervous wreck - a huge amount of nervous energy/tension/anxiety - but it was extremely positive. I can't begin to express my appreciation for being able to talk to someone and say out loud the things that until now I have only shared here. I don't think that I really said much that I haven't said here but it is important to say it to another human being (physical).
I have a level of hope that I have not experienced in a really long time. I know that if I continue on this path I will get a lot better. I have an AA meeting tonight and I will go see my sponsor who is still ill with pneumonia. That is important because I am a selfish person and my first instinct is always to walk the other way when someone might need my help. I remember when my best friend in the States had knee surgery - he was in the hospital for a couple of days I think and I went to see him once - but for like an hour. If I could do it again today I would hang out with him for the day. I had nothing going on then that I couldn't have done in his room - school work. He was doing his work as well - but he still would have liked having me there. Anyway, no one asked me to go to see my sponsor and I am not doing it because I am a great person. I am doing it because I wish to start acting more like the person I want to be. It is true that this is a sort of ego building as well, but if I can make a habit of these things while being careful not to get too high on myself for doing it, I will be in a better place. I just made one of those slips that I point out to others: I said, "...if I can..." Well I can, the question is will I? I should say, "...if I make a habit..." I was speaking as if I don't have the power to decide and act... ____________________________________________________________________________________________
Ok, so this leads me to another question that I should ask myself - should I be offering advice to other members here? I often see "addict speak" - I actually see it constantly here - and I want to point it out to those who are using it. I am sure that I am using my share - I just caught myself above doing it. But in AA the dominant school of thought is that we should tell our own stories and experiences and what has helped us get better, but that unless someone asks us we should not directly critique another's recovery. I think that the idea is that we will scare them or cause them to increase their resistance. If they ask for our help however, they will be receptive.
I don't know. I am a meddler by nature. And I have seen so much disappointment here and in AA I have this compulsion to say, hey! when I see something very obvious. How do others see it and remain silent? Well, I guess discipline and an acceptance that others with more experience than us have tried that path and have concluded that it doesn't work. I may have to discover that for myself - I am already beginning to sense it. Everyone has to choose their own path. My problem is that I tell myself, "but they are not really choosing - that is their addict speaking... they are actually oblivious that they are being led to the edge...."
Ok, I guess I have to learn for myself. ____________________________________________________________________________________________
Today I feel good. I am trying to stop holding my wang. I am more concious of it and when I realize I am doing it I stop. I have not prayed today but I have talked to an addict and I have already read and posted a lot. I promise that for the next 24 hours I will not look at P/MB.
Please lend me some strength for today.
JohnG
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Post by JohnG on Jan 30, 2007 8:10:09 GMT -5
From another thread: Hey Shamedface I can relate to the wants you want from recovery. I'm right there with you. I feel a lot of the same feelings that you just described. My body is extremely hungry for care & nurturing. When somebody touches me in a non-sexual way -- it can be electric. I really identify with the italicized portion. I never realized this was the case until I read it in Ian's post. I don't pretend to know exactly what this means but I will reflect on it. JohnG
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Post by choselife on Jan 30, 2007 8:22:42 GMT -5
Don't sweat it. You know if you are coming from a good place. When you are doing that, and if you don't get any feedback from who you are advising that the advise is not welcome, then keep on doing it. Because of your experience, it is natural that frequently you will get feedback questioning whether your advice is on the mark, or is helpful. Isn't that just the nature of the process? You can give me any advice you want to. I might fully agree, partially agree, or totally disagree. I'm a man; I can handle it. You politely asked me if you should keep on reminding me about the issue with my wife, and I gave you my answer. Do the same with others when it feels right, and you can't go wrong. But STOP giving yourself a hard time. No one is perfect, and again if you feel that you are coming from the right place (which you probably always are), then just go for it. And now for my advice to you. Hey, JohnG.You are not the only person offering advice to other members. Can you please tell me what is wrong with healthy ego building? That can only be helpful to you, and your first reaction is being concerned about getting too high on yourself? I don't think that is likely to happen, and if it were to happen, then you will successfully deal with it then. For now, just forget about it. It sure would be silly for you to not engage in actions that would build your ego because of your concern that you would get full of yourself, wouldn't it? To sum up, you are making great progress in your recovery, and you are a big help to many others who are working on their recovery. Lastly, I suggest that those who are most sincere about working on sobriety/recovery, regardless of how far along they are in the process, will be the most likely ones to use your advice well. Have a great day, and be kind to yourself. CL
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Post by sisyphus on Jan 30, 2007 9:36:15 GMT -5
JohnG, I think offering advice on this forum is entirely appropriate.
One thing I noticed in your earlier posts, and something you might want to be aware of (or beware of) - see, here's some advice - is that the addict can get insiduously clever, and start blurring the lines between what is safe and what is not. I have found, and this is entirely personal, that when I start getting really rational about what is or is not ok, I'm on a dangerously slippery slope. I'm not sure I ever see a clear progression, but I know that when I start thinking too much, it's a danger sign.
Perhaps not "pride proceeds a fall," exactly...more like "over-thinking proceeds a slip."
Peace, Jacob
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