The drawbacks of men getting their sex ed from p

[AmazingGrace]

There was a thread earlier this week that got me thinking about p & its impact on our sex lives.

About six months ago, I pulled out all of my marriage books and read the chapters on sex looking for advice. DH & I had just had a conversation where he said, in essence (sp?) that he was bored with our sex life. Literally, he said, "I wish sex was as uncomplicated as it seems in the movies." In the (R-rated) movie we had just seen, the main female character had said to the main male character, "Just get on with it." (Meaning, I assumed, begin intercourse now, please, and stop messing around with all that foreplay junk).

I went to my collection of marriage books because I was trying to figure out if somehow I had missed some instructions in how to be an exciting sexual partner. Was there a chapter with a script: "Oh, Oh, Baby, Yeah, Baby, Just Like That?" Some chapter with physical contortions or suggested facial expressions?

The books (which were all Christian books from the 80's & 90's, but pretty straightforward about sex) mostly said, "Be a warm & willing sexual partner. Try to look nice. Don't always say no. Occasionally initiate sex."

Wow, if only sex were that uncomplicated now. So I hadn't missed anything in the instructions the first time I read them. But these were instructions for being with a husband for whom you were his only "naked lady." For a visually and mentally faithful man, a warm and willing partner is all the turn-on he needs.

For a man who has gotten his sex ed from p, though, it's a little more complicated. I wonder if men realize that if p were realistic:

[trigger] and there were ten couples over the course of a p movie.

*only two or three of the women would have an orgasm from intercourse. But if they did have an orgasm it would require an average of 13 minutes from first touch to climax.
*one or two out of the 10 women wouldn't climax at all.
*four out of the 10 women would require consistent manual touch (for 13 or more minutes) before or after or during intercourse.
*two or three of the women would need oral stimulation in order to climax.

Normal sex doesn't have to be choreographed to be good. Some nice-ness leading up to it. A warm & welcoming response to each other. Kissing. Touching. There don't have to be any words spoken. No crazy, over-the-top positions, facial expressions, noises. (Though if you like those things, feel free to use them!) [/trigger]
P might seem pretty laughable if it was the simple stuff of an loving sex life. And truthfully, watching it would feel even more like an intrusion than p already is. Because lovemaking is meant to be an intimate connection of two souls as well as two bodies.

The fortunate end to my story is that eliminating p & mb from his life has simplified DH's expectations of me. Recently we had some sex that both of us classified as "awesome." And what did I have to do to contribute to this awesome encounter?

It was pretty simple. I was warm. I was willing.

[completelydone]

People who use porn as their guide to sex don't like sex; they like a perversion of sex. That's why they are called perverted. It's not normal. Dirty sex, casual sex, weird sex, is NOT good sex. Having the background that I do with SA/PA I've had a lot of strange and kinky sex. None of it satisfied, meant anything, was anything special. I can't look back and say, "Hey, I'm really glad I did that. That meant so much to me! It was great!" No, what it did was leave you feeling empty, lonely, unfulfilled, dirty, and gross.

The best kind of sex is the kind of sex where you actually make love with your partner. When emotional intimacy is there, every time is mind blowing, fulfilling, euphoric. When you're done you feel at peace, you feel closer, feel loved, on cloud 9.

And here's another thing about it. All those years and all those men I slept with and I was lucky if I had an orgasm at all; no matter how strange, kinky, or long we had sex. Although the sex felt good, it wasn't by any stretch "mind blowing" orgasm filled sex for me. I usually had to crawl on top if I wanted to have an orgasm. They couldn't give me one, I had to do the work to have one. But with my current husband, every time we make love (this wasn't true when he was using porn and it wasn't making love), I have at LEAST one orgasm when we have sex. Often I have several. And more than that, my husband can actually orgasm and ejaculate, continue having sex and sometimes orgasm again (although the second time he does not ejaculate). He actually went to a urologist and asked him what was wrong with him because he could continue having sex (still hard) after his first ejaculation and possibly even orgasm again. The urologist told him he was a lucky man; that there was nothing wrong with him and he must be a stud. He didn't have a good explanation for it, just that it does sometimes happen with certain men. My husband concluded that it was me; or more accurately our love that we express in bed now. (No, he doesn't do drugs, and he's not on any Rx's either.)

So, for all the p heads "knowledge" of what good sex is; they don't know jack about it! They know perversion, and perversion is not good sex. Perversion is only a tool for m/b. And they don't even enjoy the after effects of that; it makes them feel guilty for being so perverted.

Thanks for sharing, Amazingrace, that's a very good point.

Take care,
CD

OH, and BTW, I've seen enough porn movies to know that most of the women in those movies are faking orgasms. From one woman to another, we KNOW when they're faking it.

[mo4wo1]

Completelydone,

complete & total ditto. None of my experiences did anything for me in that department. My H & I are in a place his a/o never allowed for & a place I never, never, EVER found in all of my a/o. Ever. Now that we're both clean, life is good.


*side note: For sometime now, I had told H he is the best lover I had ever been with. His being clean from MB & mostly P has helped our s** life explode! But it struck me what power I am giving him & what trust I must have to let him know that about me & for real. He could have used that against me but he hasn't at all. He still worries I will get bored, lol.

I love him so, lol.

[zerotolerance]

We don't get bored with love, nor good loving sex imo. If we're bored, we/they aren't doing it right. ;-) I know what you mean those, and aren't those horrid haunting thoughts. I hate those. So let him worry for a change! Really that worry though, is probably residue p thoughts, preformance anxiety, and "not good enough", and stuff like that, same goes for us too. yuk!

[realthing]

i started watching tv program the other night about a sex blogger (can't remember her name) - but in the vein of belle de jour although she wasn't a prostitute but a woman who spent every waking moment thinking about and having sex. i actually had to turn the tv off 'cos as she was reading extracts from her sex blog it was actually making me cringe. the language she used to describe sex was - well pathetic actually - but this is what people reading her blog were getting off on. she was portraying herself as this liberated sexual being - as if she was some kind of expert on sex. i just can't see wot is liberated about letting the p industry shape your psyche on sex - and expert ?

personally - well after the first few times of having sex i realized that i would need to let my mind go in order to enjoy it - that meant letting my mind go not to something external like wot the p industry would have us believe equated to 'good sex' , but you know just letting myself get into it ,getting rid of inhibitions- after that very conscious realization, sex with a partner(as opposed to casual sex*) was great. with regards to my h well i don't think we've ever had sex without me (+ him) reaching orgasm. and i totally agree with you that best sex is just about getting into the person you're having it with in a healthy loving way. yeah i've had lots of kinky moments with my h, and used fantasy a lot (which had always by the way been based round him) , and yeah always reached orgasm then too - but i've said it before in this forum that the best sex we had was always stripped of all that and us just really engaging in and loving each other. it wasn't until i started writing posts on here though that i realized how all those kinky scenarios and fantasy are in fact all totally p constructed fantasy fodder. (and hey i never even view it - it's just out there with a life of it's own telling us all wot sex is about ) .

wot i said about getting rid of inhibitions - i think some of those inhibitions were the result of a catholic upbringing where sex was really forbidden outwith marriage (although the chasm between religion and reality was by this time really showing - i know the difference even between behaviors of my sister's generation who is 8 yrs older and mine were obvious) . i was just turning 18 when i first had sex (and outwith marriage) but i think some of those inhibitions were based around the psyche that religion had generated that sex was somehow 'dirty'. just a thought that now religious influence is decreasing and that sex is not perceived as 'dirty' , now we have the p industry increasing it's influence and constructing the lie that sex is not only 'dirty' but 'filthy' 'cos that is wot sex is being portrayed as - literally - going back to the sex blogger where much of the 'dirty talk' is focused around any excrement ejected onto someone. i in no way feel that i can influence anyone with regards to deconstructing the perverted images of sex which the p industry has created (god thankfully i'm not even aware of many of them), but as an individual i can certainly work on myself to reshape the distorted perceptions of sex which it has resulted in. i suppose that is what all the pa's here are trying to do - or r they?

*although casual sex then always allowed me to reach orgasm too but it was the feelings it left me with afterwards that differentiated it from sex with a partner - guilt, feeling 'dirty', feeling you had share a very intimate experience with a stranger)

[Mayberry]

Rambling on:


The word :"liberated" really caught my eye this morning.

How incredibly liberating, freeing, to give....
the gift of one's body ENTIRELY to another and
have that gift accepted with love, enthusiasm, appreciation, interest....
and to receive, with love, enthusiasm, appreciation, interest....
the gift of another's body in return.
Just the two of you, all sexual energy in each other's trust.

And there's the key words, for me:
Gift.
Trust.
Enthusiasm.
Interest.
Received.
Returned.
Love.

For me, the "hows" of the connection matter very little when framed in those words.

As near as I can tell, p/MB taught my husband how to have an absolutely frustrating, one-sided, "thing" relationship...
And love, connection, trust, fidelity are showing him how to have an absolutely satisfying, mutual love relationship.

I find it very curious that I used words (he hasn't seen) this week to describe him as a "stranger in a strange land." Last night, he used those words about himself, to describe what it's like for him to feel connected. To me. To himself. To us.

Rambling off.

[lee1234]

I can completely relate to this. My PAH didn't hear one word about sex from his parents. They didn't teach sex ed in his school. He learned about sex from porn magazines given to him on the school bus when he was 12. Totally unrealistic perspective on sexuality. I'm goint to make sure I do a better job with MY kids. Sex should be an experience for two loving partners giving of themselves with their mind, body, spirit and heart... anything less than that isn't worth it. Completely unfulfilling. I'm hoping that some day my husband and I can experience sex that isn't cheapened by pornography. There are positive signs. I have enjoyed being held by him and kissed by him since we are both recovering from his addiction. It's tough. I keep being paranoid. I keep feeling a little repulsed. I just don't want to think that he'll just act out through me instead of being with me.. We need more therapy before I can get to the point of trusting him more and before I feel like he is in touch with himself more. One day at a time, and hompefully no more steps backward..

[cindyandben]

Porn teaches nothing useful except the various results of plastic surgery.

[completelydone]

cindyandben said:

Porn teaches nothing useful except the various results of plastic surgery.

;D

Thanks for the smile.