Dealing with H's Recovery

[vlngrl]

Hi.
I don't know if this is more appropriate here on the general forum.

I mostly lurk and post occassionally. My H (together 11 years, married 6) is addicted to p and mb. He's been sober from both since March of 07. He's seeing a therapist that deals with sex addictions and recently has started attending SA meetings. He is working hard at his recovery.

We've recently had a bad, bad blow out fight. I think it was last night (due to a newborn and the blow out, I haven't slept but 6 hours in the past 48 and likely, I won't be sleeping more than another 3 tonight.) It started because I snooped through his things. I know, it was a bad judgement of error on my end. But I ended up finding stuff (as usual) that he "forgets" to mention. It wasn't big. But I expect when I ask how his first SA went to get something along the lines of "I got some pamplets, we talked, and exchanged phone numbers. Hon, due to the nature of this, we're not supposed to share with others exact details of what's discussed."

I got "It went fine." all three times he's gone so far. I ask how it goes with his counselor, and usually it's "fine." Not only is the lack of detail (for whatever he can provide) upsetting, but details come out WAAAY after the fact. (The need for being confidential about SA meetings came out after our fight, and he's been to three and "forgot" to mention this. He "forgot" to mention to me that he was still mbing after he stopped looking at p a few weeks after d-day when I asked if he had stopped [Yes, I didn't get a straight answer from him, because I didn't specify what he had stopped.] I asked him repeatedly if he was doing OK (ie, was he getting urges) throughout my pregnancy. "Yes. I'm fine." Only for him to tell me later that he indeed was getting urges. And apparently, because he didn't act out on them, he figures he didn't have to tell me he did have them (that's all I asked..not frequency or anything like that) . Then it's this darn SA stuff..

I'm sorry this is so very random. Here's my question: Is it really right for me to go along with H's recovery to be seemingly completed in secrecy? He kept his addiction a secret from me our whole relationship, and now his recovery is secret too? I don't understand..I thought that secrecy (or keeping things to himself, under "wraps", or whatever) feeds the addiction. How can it be healthy for recovery? I've met with his therapist once and am due to meet with him again soon. I also met with a therapist (who also talked about secrecy feeding the addiction) and the never once mentioned that my H was entitled to keep his whole recovery to himself. Is this really how it works?

What's the level of space a SA should get as they are working through the addiction?

Can a private SA ever change? When we were dating (about 6 months), H had to go away on a fieldtrip for school. After we got back, I asked him how it went. I got the sanitized, "Good." two sentence version. His friend got told what really happened. It's still the same stuff, over and over again.

Do you ever feel penalized because you can't "guess" what the right question is to elicit the response you are looking for? (Ie, I didn't ask if DH was still mbing after d-day (partly as I was unclear about the exact issues-p vs. mb), so therefore, he didn't need to respond about that. And he could say he stopped looking at the p, b.c he really did). I don't have the time or the energy to research everything (how exactly SA works for example) so I know exactly what to ask him w/r/t his meetings. But isn't that a bit of an absurd demand on a SO of a SA?

When he told me that he wasn't allowed to talk about his SA meetings, I nearly threw up. I didn't even feel that bad when D-day hit. It really dawned on me that b/c of his addiction, we won't ever be at a level of intimacy that I'd hope for. There will now always be stuff he'll be keeping/hiding/forgetting/neglecting to tell me. I love him, but I can't accept this for the rest of my life. I always knew he was a private person (much more than myself). I could take that fine. But his need to be private with his life AND being an addict (and therefore needing to be private with all of that) I can't take. I don't see any need or room for me in his journey.

I'm also bothered that IMO, strangers are more privy to his intimate thoughts than I am (though he said he hasn't shared anything yet.) But these strangers aren't the ones supporting him (financially, taking vacation time so H can go to therapy, try to be loving/kind to him, etc) as a wife do.

We very, very bad things to eachother last night. We both hit way below the belt. I didn't think we were both capable of what we did to eachother. And now it seems that I can't find a way to apologize to him or get over this. We haven't had a fight in a while. Usually afterwards, I still want to be close to him, cuddling with him, whatever. Not this time. I'm very, very afraid things are completely damaged beyond repair. I feel like for the first time, my eyes are really open to how things are and will be. I feel like I'm really ready to give up on the marriage, as I think I've hit the feeling numb stage. I feel like I can hang through the holidays.

[mo4wo1]

Hello, vingrl.

"Is it really right for me to go along with H's recovery to be seemingly completed in secrecy?"
IMO, no. Secrets are not conducive to a strong intimate relationship such as a marriage.

"He kept his addiction a secret from me our whole relationship, and now his recovery is secret too?"
When I read of how recovering addicts claim their meetings are supposed to stay totally secret & therefore they are not supposed to talk to their spouses about anything, I get the impression the addicts either misunderstand the intentions behind that (I believe to protect anonymity & promote open & honest discussion) or they are using the meeting as a new "logical" excuse/rationalization to lie to their spouse. I have never been to an SA meeting but I have been to group sessions before (for abuse women). Maybe the "literature" tells the addicts to never speak about the addiction to their spouses, I honestly don't know. But if that is so, that sounds absolutely wrong.

It's good, IMO, to have a "safe place" to have completely & totally honest & frank discussions about ones addiction. But choosing to behave as if that's the only place it can be discussed and/or to think the addiction should never be discussed outside the meeting, especially with one's spouse, is a form of denial IMO and can kill a marriage in a heart beat.


"I don't understand..I thought that secrecy (or keeping things to himself, under "wraps", or whatever) feeds the addiction. How can it be healthy for recovery?"
It does & it's not healthy, IMO. Again, I think he is either getting this wrong, feeding you a new line or should probably find a new group if they are encouraging him to do further damage to the marriage, I.e. keep more secrets.

Respecting his fellow SA members' privacy is not the same thing as him continuing to hide the facts of his addiction & behaviors from you, especially if they are things that can directly affect your wellbeing.

"I've met with his therapist once and am due to meet with him again soon. I also met with a therapist (who also talked about secrecy feeding the addiction) and the never once mentioned that my H was entitled to keep his whole recovery to himself. Is this really how it works?"
IMO, no. It may be how they or he is "working" it, but IMO it is not a productive way for him to heal the trust he has broken with you.

"What's the level of space a SA should get as they are working through the addiction?"
What they need, I suppose. But need -- us stepping back to so they can do their recovery -- is not the same as want -- us staying away & remaining just as clueless as always. (That promotes a/o, IMO.)

"Can a private SA ever change?"
Yes! When they so desire & are ready.

"Do you ever feel penalized because you can't "guess" what the right question is to elicit the response you are looking for?"
Yes. H & I struggle with this to the point that sometimes, when he's not being forthcoming & honest, I tend to lay it all out. I preempt any possible "I thought you meant... " comments that I can think of. I tend to go a bit over board & become very verbose, lol. I am usually clear & to the point. I do not beat around the bush with people and, IMO, that is just good communication. No implications or assumption. Those things & addictions do not mix! You must remain clear, always.

"But isn't that a bit of an absurd demand on a SO of a SA?"
IMO, no. We should all stay completely clear. I believe it is best to be completely clear, leaving no room for doubt or assumptions & guesses, no "You know what I mean." If we do that, they cannot logically say, "You didn't say... ". They will likely try but just because they try something illogical does not mean we should conform.

Have you ever heard of mirroring? This is where two people are talking & after one says something, the other one repeats it & in their own words. That way, if the other person misunderstood, a correction can be made. H& I use this. Not as much as we should, mind you. But when we do, it really does help.

"It really dawned on me that b/c of his addiction, we won't ever be at a level of intimacy that I'd hope for."
That may end up being true. He may never be capable of the type of intimacy you want, thought you two had or hoped you had. But he may be able of give more then has been in the past. Or, things may be better than you ever imagined. The patience needed for this is so hard to deal with. I understand that fully & struggle with my own "instant gratification" issues, too.

"There will now always be stuff he'll be keeping/hiding/forgetting/neglecting to tell me."
Maybe. But IMO, not if he's in true recovery and wants to stay in an intimate relationship with you or anybody. He may come completely completely clean one day.

There really are no absolutes in this outside of this being hard & painful.

"I love him, but I can't accept this for the rest of my life. I always knew he was a private person (much more than myself). I could take that fine. But his need to be private with his life AND being an addict (and therefore needing to be private with all of that) I can't take. I don't see any need or room for me in his journey."
You're right. It is his journey. Healing you is yours. And healing the marriage belongs to you both.

"I'm also bothered that IMO, strangers are more privy to his intimate thoughts than I am (though he said he hasn't shared anything yet.) But these strangers aren't the ones supporting him (financially, taking vacation time so H can go to therapy, try to be loving/kind to him, etc) as a wife do."
(((hugs))) It's my opinion he needs to share some of this with you.

"We very, very bad things to each other last night. We both hit way below the belt. I didn't think we were both capable of what we did to each other. And now it seems that I can't find a way to apologize to him or get over this. We haven't had a fight in a while. Usually afterwords, I still want to be close to him, cuddling with him, whatever. Not this time. I'm very, very afraid things are completely damaged beyond repair. I feel like for the first time, my eyes are really open to how things are and will be. I feel like I'm really ready to give up on the marriage, as I think I've hit the feeling numb stage. I feel like I can hang through the holidays."
We all have our limits. Just be honest with yourself about yours, dear. From what you have said, it looks like you do not have to make any solid decisions just yet.

[vlngrl]

mo4wo1-

Thanks for your reply. It has really helped-both confirm some of my feelings and give me things to think about.

With much cooler heads, H came to me and he suggested that I ask him to elaborate when I feel like I'm not getting enough information, as our definitions of "open" are really different. He realizes that yes, while he has been more open with me, he still has a way to go. We also had a discussion again about trust. I think he gets it now, as I told him at this point, I don't even trust him enough to tell me if someone in his SA had called him or he felt the need to call someone.

Thanks again!