I feel so dumb

[spittingnails]

In all this preaching to my h about honesty and full disclosure, I realized over the last couple days that I hadn't been doing the same. Everyone is aware and I'm sure can relate to the O/C "checking." I've taken it a step further by checking EVERYTHING he owns. The garage, old emails from old girlfriends, ect. I also realized that digging up all his old crap was holding me back from making any forward progress. It was hindering my healing and also effecting our relationship since I'd get mad at him "out of the blue," as he put it, even though I knew darn well why I was mad. Ended up doing a little crazy-making of my own to cover for it though. Anyway, I felt that I should "come clean" with all this since it was effecting the both of us and making me feel like a hypocrite (sp). Didn't turn out so well. And-this I should have expected-seems like I only gave him reason to think that half of our problems are my fault now too, even though, IMO, all the O/C snooping was brought about by his dishonesty and my need to feel like I was protecting myself. He asked why I did it and I told him 95% of the time that I've caught him in something shady it's been because things felt almost a little too comfortable so I snooped and always, ALWAYS found something was going on. His comment was "well, the next time our relationship feels too comfortable, just let me know and I'll do something to piss you off." I went into things wanting to give him the same honesty I ask of him and wanting to lay everything out on the table, so to speak. Maybe what I was doing was wrong but somehow I'm left feeling like a screw up. And maybe I shouldn't have told him at all but it just didn't seem right hiding things when I'm asking him not to....so why do I feel so messed up now?

[kello2005]

I had to do the same thing when asking for total honesty from my SO. He wasn't overly upset - my indiscretions were minor, but I felt like it would be showing a good example if I was honest.

The reasons behind you snooping are obvious...and really, I almost do the same things, but usually only about once a month. I found that before, when I didn't really know much, and was just constantly finding stuff, I almost got a high from it, this really recognizable feeling in my stomach as I "stumbled" upon new evidence. It became an obsession of its own.

It's good that you told your husband...however, it doesn't need to make you feel messed up. You were honest, you modeled good behaviour.

I can also relate to the feeling of when things are too good feeling like it's just a matter of time before something pops up and something must be wrong! I've felt it and usually ended up being counterproductive and getting in a fight. I think because the high of fighting and discovery becomes a routine, one that is difficult to stop.

I've started checking things less as well, I find I'm leaning more towards my own progress than his. Really, I'll know in my heart if he's being dishonest and i will see with his actions if he is serious about recovery. Usually, snooping didn't give me new information - it just confirmed what I already knew.

Don't feel like a screw up...you aren't. You're just dealing with a tough situation the best you know how:)

[mo4wo1]

Dear, I went through one of my H's old hiding spaces the other night. He was reassuring when I told him. I always tell him. Can't help it. I have a big mouth that way, lol.

Dear, IMO, your H's reaction was inappropriate. As kello2005 said, you were honest & modeled good behavior. He should have appreciated that you did for him what you expect from him.

Hopefully he will calm down 7 see this... and apologize. Maybe he was letting his guilt get to him for having not done the same for you (confessing without having to be asked) and he projected his anger with himself onto you. My H has done that. He has gotten so much better, though.

Maybe with practice your H will too.

((((hugs)))))

[zerotolerance]

yeah, what she said! double that! Your reactions are quite normal for these horrid circumstances. If you really thought he would be honest, then you wouldn't be looking now would ya? So why don't you think he can't be honest? Maybe because he never has been before? Of course that's why. duh! Their p-ng creates the development of these monsters in us. When we grow soul holes, because of them, then the doors to our souls are slung wide open, and all sorts of things we'd never have thought or done before become temptations for us. Your afriad of what another discovery will do to your, rightfully so, because these cycles are soo excruciatingly painful for us. You just need to find another way to resolve your conflict, or accept that you can't trust him, without having to look to see that FACT. We shouldn't be trusting, untrustworthy people anyway. It's shame on US when we do it repeatedly. So now you're wearing his shame, and yours, and that is part of what makes us feel soo bad. I don't think snooping is the wrong thing anymore. I think sticking our heads in the sand is FAR more wrong than snooping. We have every right to know every thing they are bringing into our relationships, PERIOD. However we have to discover it imo. But in time you will learn to better trust your gut, without even having to look anymore. I use monitoring software. I see every site my h goes too. So I don't have look any further than my email anymore. But I'm also not trying to save my relationship either, never had one to save, imo. Telling him was the right thing to do, if your concious was bother him. But like so many things we share with these guys, they put a p twist on it, and they often come back as their excuses for future bads. It won't work if he doesn't get honest too. But at least you did the right thing, even if he didn't. Take comfort in that. Really this whole journey is more about become better people ourselves than it is about getting them to become better people. The difference between us and them is we CHOOSE to learn for our mistakes, and we sincerely try NOT to engage in bad behavior. We don't like that we have to snoop. We would prefer to be less objectified, where they just tell us the truth, and let us deal with that. But those skills aren't in their mindsets yet. We are WAAY to hard on ourselves too. EXPERTS can't even handle these situations, or fix these problems, yet we think we're the super woman who can... blah, blah, blah. We can't, and once we figure that out, we stop being so hard on ourselves. You, nor none of us, are equip in any way, shape or form to know how to tolerate this level of emotional abuse, and it's effects on our pysche. The best you can do is recognize when you are in triggered states, or having triggered thoughts, and check them at the door, BEFORE taking any action. And question your own motives for everything you think about doing, judging if it is loving behavior, or unloving behavior, and/or if your motives are self serving, or serving him or the relationship. And then only pick loving actions, and only look when your got is screaming that it is not just you! We deserve to know the truth, and if they won't give it to us, then it is our obligation, and responsibilty to get it another away. We also have to get to truth about our behaviors too. So look at what is motivating you, and question your motives. While also looking at him, and how what he does, affects what you do. You can change you. It's hard, but well worth the effort. But when we are between how we used to be, and what we've yet to learn, we feel so lost. But you aren't lost, your just disconnected, and you have some circuits misfiring. And he's probably crazying making you with his blameshifting, on top of all the other crap. Only own what is yours, and you did that. And not only did you own it, you took responsibility for it. You gave him the benefit of hearing the truth right out of your mouth. We can't be better than that imo. His reaction is on him, and is not a reflection of you whatsoever. You acted adult and mature about it. Does he EVER do that? About anything? And isn't the fact that he don't, what motivated you to try to find another way? I think so! Even though this one is on you, it's only on you because of what HE previously did. When we connect all the dots, they ALWAYS lead right back to their p-ng. That's what started this chain of events. You didn't choose it. HE DID! You just ended up on the p roller coaster with the rest of us, and now you are taking action to correct it's adverse effects on you. And that is a GOOD thing.

[truthorlie]

I've had enough of it, myself. I spent most of the last 10 years ping-ponging around like crazy. Some days were good, other very, very bad. Some of the bad days when he was at work all day and I had a day off, for whatever reason, I would start the O/C searching like MAD! I would spend ALL DAY - 8 HOURS - checking everything - the garage, the attic, the vents in the floor, the trash cans, the dirty clothes - THE CLEAN CLOTHES, the dresser drawers, behind the dresser drawers, the coat pockets, the pants pockets, sniffing the crotches of the pants (he was a lap dancing fan), computer (boring when I had soooo many other places to look) except I would spend HOURS canvassing EVERY FILE ON THE ENTIRE COMPUTER, checking previous channels on the tvs - ALL OF THEM, checking the redial on ALL OF THE PHONES, between the mattresses - ALL OF THEM, the closets, all of the boxes in the basement, the eaves in the basement, etc. I WOULD TEAR THE HOUSE APART - SYSTEMATICALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I (his addiction) drove myself crazy.

This is a double-edged sword, ladies. There is no DOUBT that we have all been through and done the EXACT SAME THINGS - crazy things - AT THE EXPENSE OF OURSELVES. But we did this because IT WAS A NATURAL RESPONSE REACTION TO WHAT THEY WERE DOING. Here's the other side of the sword - are you ready?.... Our natural reactive response - WHICH IS COMMON - is the beginning of the end of OURSELVES. It IS.... the beginning of OUR ADDICTION. THE ADDICT. Controlling the addict. Controlling the behavior. Trying to control our lives and our futures. But the sad fact is.... you WILL NEVER CONTROL the addict. You will just drive yourself CRAZY. And he HELPS YOU drive yourself crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He NEEDS you to be crazy! Let me repeat this - HE NEEDS YOU TO GO NUTS!!!!! Because if YOU are nuts, he's NOT THAT BAD OFF HIMSELF. He needs you to be as bad off, or worse, than him. Because if he gets you there - in that place - HE DOESN'T NEED TO RECOVER - YOU DO. And he will expend many hours, much time and much energy trying to PROVE you are sicker than him.

So where am I now? Well, I am TRYING to stop obsessing, starting to detach, beginning to work on myself INSTEAD OF HIM. I am speaking to the intake counsellors at "The Meadows" in Wickenburg, AZ - for myself - NOT HIM. I just need to pick the week that I will go and sign up. Will probably do this in January as my 2 weeks vacation time will kick in after the 1st. Wouldn't buy him a "ticket" if he begged me!!!! This is FOR ME NOW! I am going to get rid of all of the "sick" that he caused OUT OF ME. I am going to drop it all off like a bag of garbage - picture me driving down the highway and throwing out HIS trash for MILES - HUNDREDS OF POUNDS OF IT FOR MILES - all streaming right out the window and landing in the wake of me speeding away in my vehicle. All his gargage out of my life and left BEHIND me in a trail of dust (I am against littering by the way, so this is just a visual - I would NEVER litter - can't stand it - pet peeve of mine). So that's it in a nutshell.

I've spent years trying to fix him - didn't work.
I've spent years trying to get others to fix him - didn't work.
Divorced him - didn't work.
Got back together - didn't work.
Left him again - didn't work.
Got back together, again - didn't work.
Got arrested, thrown in jail, temporary restraining order against my son, etc - didn't work.
Going to get better for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This, I think, WILL work.

(((((((((((((((Hugs to everyone one of you))))))))))))))))))))

[spittingnails]

Ladies, thank you so much for your words of encouragement! This thing had me so messed up yesterday I didn't know WHAT to think or feel. You guys helped me get my bearings again I know I told him because it was the right thing to do. I recognized that it was becomming an addiction for me, so I completely relate to what ToL and Kello said (about the high.....yeah, I get that!). I have to stop feeling so obsessed. What he chooses to do with the information I've given him is up to him. Mo, you were right. He did calm down after a couple hours. Emailed me and asked what it was I wanted. It shocked me that the answer wasn't "a happy marriage" or something along those lines. All I could think of was "I want to stop feeling like I'm going insane. All this garbage has made me loose myself and all I want is to find me again." And in that moment I knew I was being completely honest. No matter what else happens, I just want to be me again. Regardless of how he feels about it, I believe being honest and forthcoming was a step in the right direction. I'm going to keep taking those steps and working on me. Maybe he follows, maybe he doesn't, but at least when the smoke clears I'll feel like myself again:) Thanks again for all your words! It pulled me out of the downward spiral and reminded me that I'm not the crazy one in the situation.

[zerotolerance]

Yeah, I agree with TOL, they need us to be sick so that they feel better about their horrible selfs. It's part of the cycle. The problem is they don't count on the ways it makes us sick. They don't have any idea of what their behavior is really doing to us. It works great for em, so long as we don't know, and we aren't rocking the boat, or so they percieve. But when their symptoms start manifesting themselves in us, and our behaviors, they aren't prepared for that whatsoever. We're suppose to just be objects, they can manipulate, and control, the reactions of, but they can't control the p monsters that get in us, and break our souls, and make us as crazy as they are. They don't even know such things happen to people because for most it happened to them soo long ago, before they ever learned anything different. But we get it later in life, after we know it's messed up. My h doesn't understand exactly how his behavior caused me to get out of control for a while there, but he knows he's a factor. He learned why you don't go around doing passive agressive stuff to people now, and why it's called crazy making! And while they need us to be messed up to some degree, they also really need us to be well, enough that they feel like they got a "good" woman. The better we appear, the better they think they are. The more objectified we are, the better job they are doing. They don't view our attributes as our attributes in a normal way, but rather any attributes we have, are viewed as being their attribuites. It's a boundary thing, or lack of boundary thing. They don't know where they end, and where we begin. Sometimes we don't know it either. It's part of what we all have to figure out. We are like the dumping pot, the cesspool, and/or the fountian. When we do good, they take all the credit, as if THEY did it themselves. And when they do bad, it gets dumped on us, they place all the blame out. So we're both, our goodness mirrors to them that they are good, and their bad reflects off of them onto us. The mirrors in their minds are messed up, and ours get messed up too. It's very similar, but also very different at the same time. Our symptoms mirror their symptoms. They
re obsessive about p, we become obsessive about p too. They blame out, we learn to blame out too much too. They rage, we rage, etc..... It's all dysfunction, no matter who is doing it. It's all skewed perceptions. That's why we have to seek the truth, so we can get our perspectives corrected. There are no lies in the truth. There are no blind spots in the truth. There is no need to obssess in the light of the truth. There is no hate in the truth. No abuse in the truth. Seek the truth in ALL things, that is the way.

[completelydone]

In all this preaching to my h about honesty and full disclosure, I realized over the last couple days that I hadn't been doing the same. Everyone is aware and I'm sure can relate to the O/C "checking." I've taken it a step further by checking EVERYTHING he owns.

That's not being dishonest. That's trying to find the truth. There's nothing wrong with wanting to know what reality in your own life is; and since he hasn't been forthcoming, you have the right to find out for yourself.