A loving relationship with a PA?

[laboheme]

I'm new to the site, so i thought it best to start with my story....
I have been with my partner for 4 years and even now we have a pretty good relationship...that is to say on the surface things are mostly pretty good. However, he does also suffer with a health problem so he is unable to work. Yes, thats right he's on the internet all day and all night long since he's always at home!

He chats away on film forums and things to keep himself occupied. Although he could do much more valid things with his time, I get that he needs things to take his mind off his poor health at times. I would like to say that we are in a loving relationship, which we kinda are to a certain extent.

Being at home allday and spending most of the time on the internet does put a pressure on our relationship, and he also very rarely comes to bed with me...he tends to stay up until between 2 and 4am most nights using his health as an excuse to stay up.

Around a year ago, I thought I would have a bit of a mooch around his computer, since I suspected something funny was going on. Next things I know I realise his computer is full of porn....absolutely everywhere. Becoming slightly paranoid (or so I thought) I checked regularly and sure enough he goes onto various websites every night without fail and also downloads films too.

I was slightly concerned but stupidly thought it was a passing phase since our sex life wasn't what it was in previous years. Then one night after going to bed after he wasn't feeling in the mood for me, I waited about half an hour to an hour and got back up and sure enough there was a porno playing while I was in bed! I confronted him, and although he seemed sorry, after swinging the discussion round to his health, there were no promises of reducing the porn as he reckoned it was 'just one of those things that guys do'. I wouldn't really mind if he only did it occaisionally or if I was away or he stumbled upon it, but now six months later, he hasn't slowed it down just expanded the sites he uses and his collection stored on his computer!

Due to the fact that we spend most of our time together...or at least I spend most of my spare time with him, we are pretty close or I'd like to think so. I've been trying to convince myself he's still young too (25) so its a normal thing to do but it obviously isn't! We still kiss and hold hands and he tells me how much he loves me all the time. We still have a sex life but after talking to him about how to improve it after finding out about the porn, I have to come onto him since he says he can't do it because of a confidence thing (but he's a confident person), and all I can think about is the porn and now rarely enjoy myself but I know if I stop trying, the sex will stop all together.

We are a great couple with this one thing hanging over us, and I don't think he can take on board how serious this is! What can I do?! Please help!!!!

[eadreel]

I have been sitting here trying to think of something constructive and supportive to say, but keep coming up blank.

I think the first thing I should say is that porn is not about sex. It is about self medicating to avoid emotions.

I asked my PAH once what he felt when he looked at porn. He said it was an adreneline rush similar to the one when skydiving, but when he crashed it was darkness.

I think the second thing I want to say is that, with escalation of Porn use by an addict, actual physical sex with a SO almost always declines, sometimes to the point of non-exsistance.

Before my PAH's escalation of P use, we had a great sex life. 3-5 times a week or more, for hours on end. With P use it went down to once or twice a month sometimes less if I just didn't ask for sex.

Now almost two months after recovery started for him, our sex life is improving again. We are more connected emotionally, so connecting physically is a joy again.

The third thing I want to say is that you can't do a darn thing about any of this. HE has to realize the problem. HE has to want to not do it anymore. HE has to do all of the work.

What you can do is set boundaries with realistic consequences, decide what you are willing to put up with, what you aren't willing to put up with, and make decisions about your life based on what you want.

As I see it every SO of a PA/SA/OSA has a choice to make. To Stay or To Leave. Neither of which is always permanent decision. Both of these choices hurt, but it comes down to which one hurts less for YOU.

If you stay, and he isn't in active recovery, you have to come up with a realistic plan on how to cope with his addiction within your life, what to do when he breaks your boundaries. You will have to learn how to live a life outside of your marriage for yourself.

If you stay and he is in active recovery, you will have to decide on boundaries and consequences to deal with everything that goes with that path.

If you stay and he is just giving lip service to recovery, then you have to learn how to deal with that.

I have no advice on leaving a relationship, however, regardless of which path you choose to walk, make a plan to leave the relationship. A real honest to goodness plan. A place to live, the stuff you are gonna take with you, finances, job, how communal property is going to be split up, etc. Think of everything. I have decided to stay, but I still have my plan to leave, and knowing that, and knowing that I can do it, really gave me peace of mind and the grace to stay and cope with my PAH's addiction and recovery.

You don't have to make decisions right now. Only you can decide what you are going to do and if/when you are going to do it.

You can plan away, but that doesn't mean you have to implement the plans if you don't want to.

[iambetrayed]

Hello and Welcome -

I am sorry that you have to be here, but it is a good place to be when you find yourself in this awful situation. I have to agree with everything that eadreel said - she is one smart lady.

My question for you is - Is your SO open to talking about this, does he respond to your feelings about it? Because if so, you may be able to show him this site and some others that really discuss this problem in depth. He is definitely going to have to see the problem before he can start to solve it.

I am not quite to the point of some of these other ladies - I am still seeing porn as somewhat about sex. But I do know that the emotional pull for them is far beyond sex. I guess what I am saying is that it feels like it is about sex to me. Meaning that I am still in a place of very hurt personal feelings and betrayal feelings because my h was thinking of other people in that way. But the emotions that pull them are often self-esteem related. You might want to check out Recovery Nation - they have an online Partners Workshop there (free) - it is a hard thing for me to be doing right now, but it will give you some perspective on exactly what this problem is. There is a part called The Sexualized Mind that may bring some things home for you. If your SO is open to it, they also have a fantastic workshop for men who are trying to recover. Of course it sounds like that may down the road a bit for him.

Heres what you need to know : This is not your fault. It is not about anything that you are, or anything that you did. Even though he is only 25, it is not normal nor healthy behavior.

And as eadreel said, you can not control him. But I do think that SOs can make an attempt to help the PA see the truth. Sadly, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And that has nothing to do with the SO - it is completely about where the man is in his mindset. It doesn't really sound like your partner is seeing this as a problem yet, so you may have a long road ahead of you.

Just to give you some perspective - I have been with my husband for 23 years. We have been married for 18 years. He managed to fool me all along. He was doing this as a teenager, then after we were married at 25, 30, 35 and up until six weeks ago when I found him out , at 40 years old. It is heartbreaking. It is good that you know when you are still so young. But it is not something that they "grow out of" - it only goes away if they really choose to make a change and go into active recovery.

So you have some hard decisions to make - some boundaries to set out - certainly some talks to have with your partner. You will need support - we are here for you. We understand how you feel. You are not alone. Be sure to come here and read and post often - you will find support that will be invaluable to you. Take care and remember that you can come here anytime that you need to "talk".

[zerotolerance]

He's spending all his sexual energy p-ng, so naturally he doesn't have any left for you. He has to stop p-ng. Frequency is not the problem, any is TOO MUCH!!! The more they use the sicker they get. His natural sexuality has been hijacked into pornosexuality. HE has to take it back, or he will only get worse. There is no safe amount, nor type, nor any usage that's appropriate period, for any man, at any age. It's a perversion, not a "guy thing".

[mo4wo1]

I happen to agree with zerotolerance. But whether you agree with her statement or not, the usage has become a problem for the relationship you two are sharing. And the level/amount of time spent with it is more than you & your SO can handle. IMO, from what you have said, he has developed a severe problem. It is not just a "habit". No one of healthy & sound mind would waste, yes waste, hours on end on anything that brings them nothing of true value.

If he's truly dealing with health issues, he may have become depressed. His P usage may be one coping mechanism he's developed to deal with his (possible) depression. And being that it is not a fulfilling & real way to cope & handle it, it is not working & may actually be contributing to his (possible) depression. From what I have learned, SA is a bad coping mechanism used in place of healthy coping skills & emotions.

When my H was dealing with depression, his usage sky-rocketed. When I was struggling emotionally for a period there (before I met my H), my a/o sky-rocketed. (I am a SA but I prefer not to use P or MB. I a/o in other ways.) I have also read here & elsewhere of SA's who a/o more when depressed & of how it's a vicious cycle.

Have you read any on this subject? Recovery Nation ( recverynation.com ) has a great, easy-to-read essay on what it feels like to be the partner of an SA. It also describes SA well.

Educate yourself on this & let yourself ignore "common knowledge" & "societal norms" people profess to be "fact". Let your inner voice speak it's truth to you & trust your gut. I know that sounds so hokey, but it's the truth. People will discourage you for many, many reasons, from what your inner voice is telling you, if you let them. You have to let yourself learn about this & be validated so you can face this honestly & truly heal this, especially if you two really are facing SA.

Best Wishes,
Mo

[completelydone]

So long as a person is involved with porn they are not capable of a loving, intimate relationship, IMO.

[laboheme]

Thanks for all your advice. It's such a relief to have found this site and know I can share all of this with you as I now realise after reading other people's experience how serious this could really be. It's good to know it's not just me!

I'm going to have a go a the workshop you mentioned as I'm sure it would help me, and a good read of the essay and have to build myself up for a big old talk with him.

Iambetrayed, in answer to you question, unfortnately no. The two times we have talked about it, or at least brought it up in a relationship chat, he seems to understand how I'm upset about it because our sexual relationship isn't great but not because I am simply upset about the whole thing. He doesn't get that what he does is excessive. It is going to be very hard, I think to try and make him aware of the problem being a serious problem that he must change. Also, I don't think he is quite aware of how much I know / have seen.

I've been going through my head all day since I read your replies about how I'm going to approach this whole thing, and I'm still non the wiser! My initial thoughts are to go into his computer and splatter all of his secretly hidden stored films across his desktop and open up all of the websites he goes on ready for when he next looks at his computer etc etc....highly tempting I tell you!

However, I think I might have to try and get this workshop on the go so I am ready to try and talk to him knowing a bit more. Even more worrying, however, is what Mo mentioned. I fear you may be right, this may be a coping meccanism for dealing with his health issues similarly to the sheer amount of time he buries himself into the computer for hours on end despite me trying to snap him out of it.

I'll keep you updated...any more suggestions, please let me know.

Thanks

[laboheme]

Well I've tried to have another talk about it without success. We now have distasteful P popping up everywhere and tried to ask him to stop using the PC so much which has kinda worked for while I'm still awake. But he went in a huff for days on me because I must have made him feel 'too guilty' about him never coming to bed with me. Thats makes 2 months now since he came to bed at the same time as me.

I'm almost resigning to the fact that he is always going to be like this no matter what. There are so many issues he needs to deal with that are 'bigger' than even this at the route of the problem, I don't know how he can even start until he admits he has a problem which I can never see him doing.

I think I might do a little trial by where I focus my attention constantly on him and stay awake with coffee and sweets until he is ready to come to bed. Then there's no way he's going to start looking at P!

What do you guys think? Might it be worth it or am I gong to aggrevate him further?

[LookingUp]

laboheme said:

I think I might do a little trial by where I focus my attention constantly on him and stay awake with coffee and sweets until he is ready to come to bed. Then there's no way he's going to start looking at P!

What do you guys think? Might it be worth it or am I gong to aggrevate him further?

I tried that. It didn't keep him porn free - he had enough porn stored in his memory that he could get his fix any time he wanted it - just didn't get fresh fodder. The only way I could have assured he was fantasy/porn/mb free was to keep him in 24 hour a day conversation.

One time my husband said the only way I'd ever be happy was to put his head in a bag and lock him in a windowless white room - but then how would I ever control his thoughts. He was right, and I was trying to figure out how to control his thoughts so he wouldn't even think lustful pornified thoughts.

Then one day I woke up from my "monitoring-my-husband" daze and realized I was spending more time monitoring him then he was spending porning. I'd lost about 2 years of my life to his stupid addiction. Thus, I became more addicted to my addict then he was to porn. I was a sick, sick, sick woman. Now I run "Recover My Files" if he's exhibiting behavior that makes me feel he's back in it - if not, then I'm detached. That means I run that program about twice or 3 times a year.

I didn't feel safe until I made boundaries of how I would stay safe no matter what he chose to view. He didn't like the consequences I needed to feel safe - but that wasn't my problem. My "recovery plan" is linked at the bottom... it was what I used, in part, to stop being compulsive about his addiction. When I started getting my own life and find contentment and joy and friends - then my husband realized I was outgrowing him and started growing a little bit, too. When I modeled healthy behavior, then he wanted to be more healthy.

There are so many issues he needs to deal with that are 'bigger' than even this at the route of the problem, I don't know how he can even start until he admits he has a problem which I can never see him doing.

Many men won't admit they have a problem until they've lost everything: job, wife, family, home, etc.... then they get a clue. When we get to the point that we can say, "Porn or me ... you choose" and don't really care which they choose - then we're free. I remember getting to that point... then my husband could hear me. I honestly didn't care which he chose - I knew being alone would bring challenges; but I figured staying and working through his recovery would be just as big or bigger challenges. Either way, I knew I'd be fine and I really didn't care which he chose. When we get to that point, we're there and know it and it feels like a very natural thing to do.

LookingUp

[laboheme]

Well, surprise surprise! It didn't work. If I go to bed late, he goes to bed later!

I know I really need to have a big talk to him about it. I had even wrote loads questions down but never had the heart to say them to him and threw them away. Now I wish I hadn't because I know I have to ask them.

Unfortunately, my SO also suffers from a health condition which is why I imagine he is using PA as a coping mechanism but who knows.

What I think is bizarre is that despite him being aware of my distaste for loads of porn it seems to be scattered everywhere around his computer. I think tonight might be the night!

Does anyone have any tips as to the 'right' questions to ask him so that we don't digress to any other issues, allow him to close up, or walk away? We do have a good relationship most of the time, but I think he might go mad when he knows I know how extreme his PA is...since it is every night for what must be at least an hour a night.
I never neeed to use his computer as i have my own so I know he going to ask me where I know all of this from?! AHhhhhhhh....what could I say to that. I don't want to break down any trust he had of me?!

[zerotolerance]

Don't let his health problem become his excuse. WE ALL have problems, but p-ng is not a solution to anyone of our problems. It never was, and it never will be. When we make, or provide, our own excuses for them, we become part of the problem too, and we inadvertantly help perpetuate it, rather than fixing it. p/mb is purely a sexual and physical release. They turn off or bury their emotional side, and spiritual side. If they do that enough then at some point they can't just turn em back on anymore just because they are with us. They get disconnected from their souls, and that is not an easy problem to fix. He may be depressed, he may have medical problems, but those don't have anything BIG thing to do with why he p/mb. That is a WANT, and not a NEED. And plenty of men without medical problems, and without traumatic childhoods, or without any of the typical excuses, do JUST LIKE HIM, and end up JUST LIKE HIM, when it comes to p/mb. Only he can name all the factors in it for him, but he can't do that until he gets out of it, and gets some perspective beside the P lie filled ones he has now. We have to stop making excuses, and start insisting on solutions. Starting with the p/mb HAS TO GO!!! PERIOD!!! There is no safe amount, nor type, and it doesn't EVER have a place in a healthy relationship, and no relationship will ever be healthy with p g/fs in the middle of it.

[laboheme]

Well, sorry to say I chickened out!

He is such a gentleman most of the time it is so hard to bring this up! Hopefully manage it sooner rather than later!!

[LookingUp]

Just thinking as I type, so it may not be worth reading.....

Rather than confronting with a barrage of questions (that they usually just deflect, ignore, gaslight or lie about anyway), what about asking how he feels about porn? about adultery? How those two relate? How he'd feel if you were looking at other men and mb to their photos? at what point is porn too much? If you think he's in chat/emotional relationship with other women - ask his opinion on that? Maybe get him to open up and you can see how he responds to those type of questions before you confront.

I never neeed to use his computer as i have my own so I know he going to ask me where I know all of this from?! AHhhhhhhh....what could I say to that. I don't want to break down any trust he had of me?!

If it breaks trust, then it would show that he really doesn't care about reciprocity of trust. He can visually cheat but you're worse then him because you peeked? If you're in an intimate relationship - then both of you should be open books to each other - no room for secretiveness in a loving relationship, in my opinion.

LookingUp