Just have to vent

[Beast Beater]

I'm going to vent here because if I don't I may say these things to my wife and I know what a mess that would be.

At the start of this month I had the Big Snip - a vasectomy. This was at my wife's request, and I agree that we shouldn't have any more kids. They clearly wear her out. Which brings me to the next point - my wife is frequently too exhausted to make love. She's just not in the mood. Now, to be totally honest, our love life isn't bad, it's actually great, and we make love usually once a week - I'm sorry if this is too much information - but, to be honest, I'd like to increase the frequency. I've brought that up with her before. I understand her need for affection, and romance, and frankly, I feel like I provide lots of that, because I do love her. But of course, when I bring up the frequency issue, it seems to hurt her and do more damage to our relationship. I try to be soft spoken and sensitive, and I've only brought it up a couple of times in our ten year marriage. (She's 33).

I used to go nuts when I was denied sex after I got my hopes up. I'd feel resentment and entitled and that would lead to acting out. I've stopped the acting out, although I slipped last October, but I still feel the resentment and entitlement and hostility.

So what did the vasectomy have to do with this? In my consultation, the doctor told me I'd have to have sex about 20 times in two months in order to clear out the old sperm. I called my wife from work and actually started crying. It was just too senstitive an issue for me. I didn't say it, but I couldn't conceive of having sex two to three times a week with my wife (I could fantasize about it, but not conceive of it). And I told her I didn't plan on masturbating because that just lead to acting out. She was totally supportive, etc., and said I shouldn't worry. She'd be there for me, and such.

So now, when we're actually supposed[/i] to be having frequent sex, it turns out we've only made love three times this month. And I'm feeling just about as resentful (not to mention UNLOVED) as ever. Believe me, the vasectomy was a horrible experience!

I wonder what I'm doing wrong. Have I hurt her in some way? Have I treated her poorly? Have I not been supportive of her many needs? Her period is coming up, so it will probably be another week before she is 'in the mood' and now I'm just so frustrated I'm actually feeling like crying again.

I hate this. Thanks for letting me blow off some steam; I'm sure I'll feel fine in an hour or two... hopefully.

Ken

[nasa]

Hi Ken-

If I were in your position, I would try to work on the issues that your wife communicates to you. If she says that she is too tired, maybe she needs some help with housework, childcare, shopping, etc. And, if you already contribute to these activities, maybe you can contribute even more.

In my opinion, expressing love is more than just flowers, cards and "I love you's". It's also about showing real and ongoing concern about all aspects of the loved one's life. Her goals, interests, responsibilities, thoughts, emotions, etc.. Of course, I am not suggesting that you are not showing this level of concern. I'm mostly just rambling

Anyway, my suggestion in a nutshell is this: Listen closely to her responses, and do whatever you can do to help her out. If it seems that nothing can be done, then you 2 should seek guidance from a marriage counselor. Last but not least, I'm glad that you are not using all of this as an excuse to act out. Keep your chin up!

Good luck to you!

[Ryan]

Hey Ken,

Although I haven't had the "big snip", I do understand your frustration about the frequency of sex in your marriage. Early on my marriage I also felt that even though our sex life was great, my wife and I just weren't doing it enough! I tried to talk about this with her, but unfortunately she felt like I was putting too much pressure on her and that it should all just come naturally. Well, the only problem with that was the fact that my urges were coming quite naturally to me!

I soon discovered that my wife responded quite well by me starting to pull "my weight" around the house. I started doing laundry, dishes, taking out the trash, making the beds, and even using the vacuum! One day as my wife saw me doing all these things, her reply was "You sure look sexy when you're cleaning". Well, you can probably imagine where that took us.

Now, although we don't have children (and the added stress and exhaustion you guys are experiencing), I paid close attention to why my wife might be feeling this "pressure" she was talking about. And after some thinking, I figured that she must just feel overwhelmed at times with all that needs to get done. So, now I find that the more I get done around the house, the more frequent we seem to have sex.

Now, if beating my SA was only that easy!!

Hope it helps,

Ryan

[k2]

Hi Ken,

Just thought I'd respond to your post from the female perspective.

I can relate to what your wife is telling you, about being too exhausted for more frequent sex, because when my son was still very young, my DH and I went through the same situation. I was so absolutely physically and mentally/emotionally drained at the end of the day that I often just wanted to fall into bed and get some rest. It also really turned me off when my husband touched me in certain ways, because I had "sensory overload" from dealing with the baby all day (esp. early on when he nursed frequently, day and night). I felt like I spent all day long taking care of everyone else, was up with the baby several times per night too, and I just longed for a few hours of sleep & relaxation for myself.

Of course my husband took it much the same way you did... feeling as if whenever his sexual advances were not met with unbridaled enthusiasum on my part, that he had done something "wrong". But it really had nothing to do with him, and was not a reflection of how much I wanted him or loved him. It was pure exhaustion on my part. The biggest problem was that we never openly communicated to each other how we actually felt at the time. He didn't understand why I was not responding to his advances, and I had no idea that he felt so deeply hurt by my actions.

Once a week really isn't doing badly... but if you desire more frequent sex, maybe you could talk with your wife about how physically frustrated you've been feeling and try to reach a compromise, such as twice a week? Your proposal might be met more favorably if you make a noticable effort to help out even more with the household duties and children several days a week, perhaps providing your wife with the opportunity to relax in a hot bubble bath or engage in other activities that make her feel better and may help to set the mood. In a busy family, as unromantic as this sounds, it often helps too to "set a date" for sex. Have a night set aside when the kids will be with a sitter or at a grandparent's house, and then plan to pamper your spouse for the evening. It gives you something to look forward to and focus on all week long, which can make the waiting seem less frustrating because you know your advances won't be turned down when "date night" finally arrives. Just a thought, as it may or may not work for you. When my husband or I are "in the mood", and the other partner is not, we usually pick a time within the next few days when we will both be likely to be feeling more relaxed and we set a date. Basically, when we do that, we are saying "Even thought I'm too tired for sex right now, I DO want you!!! So if you can hold that thought until tommorrow at eight, I'll show you just how much I really do love you."

On the up side, in my case at least, things did improve dramatically once my son was a few years older... so there is hope.

[beks]

Ken,

Your post here has really struck a chord with me. Last night I ended up breaking down infront of my husband and telling him I hated my life and had had enough of feeling stressed from work and from feeling as though I'm losing him emotionally. I told him I was desperate for some support and TLC and just needed him to hold me. I'm a teacher and just had a week off - I was so down about going back to work and just did not want to go back.

He immediately took extreme offense and assumed I was having a go at him and criticising him. Little was said (it was very late and we were both hardly able to keep our eyes open). He said he didn't know what he'd done wrong and I was just confused why he wasn't listening to what I was actually saying.

This morning I woke with the door slamming and him leaving for work. I felt crushed. After all I'd said about needing support and feeling dreadful about my job, he just didn't give a damn. No-one told me marriage would ever be this lonely.

I say one thing, he hears something else and it all gets so twisted.

My husband does so many nice things for me but what I really crave is his emotional presence - I want him to notice when I'm down, to offer me a cuddle and to show some concern. I don't want to have to keep asking for everything - *I* don't have to be asked to show concern and be a bit thoughtful. I want him to show me he desires me - right now I'm lucky to get anywhere before he's snoring and that's only if there's nothing on TV and he actually comes to bed at a reasonable time.

I wish he could read this thread. Maybe he'd understand a bit more.

[gandalf]

Beks,

I'm sorry you were so hurt by that. I really empathize with you.

In our house, the stereotypes of the woman being more in touch with "feelings" and the man having trouble dealing with them seems to be reversed. If we are having a fight and I start talking about my feelings, I usually get pounded on emotionally. If we're not fighting, it is so much better she usually ignores sentences that contain the words "I feel" and moves right on to something else.

What I try to do in the cases where we aren't fighting is to simply ask her to adress what I said I was feeling. Usually I then have to repeat it because she can't even remember what I said. I wish I had a SPAM filter that worked that well! LOL.

Another item that I found useful I learned at Retrouvaille... feelings just are and they are neither right or wrong. It is SO easy to respond to someone expressing their "feelings" defensively because most people misuse the the words "I feel". My wife's favorite next two words are "that you" which goes from expressing a true feeling to expressing a "judgement".

A partner might also feel guilty that their partner feels "lonely". I know I have to really force myself to listen and not think I am always being indicted so I can be there for her.

I didn't intend to rattle on but finally, you could just tell him that you weren't telling him those things to blame him but that you were telling him those things because you need him and really want to be close. Try asking for a hug. If he doesn't want to, be patient. Sometimes it takes a while.

I hope this helps.

Gandalf

[Beast Beater]

Following Up.

I moped around the house until my wife confronted me. We talked. As soon as my mouth opened I realized that everything I was feeling was just that - feelings. Not facts. We talked for a while, and I never placed the blame on her as I did in my post. yes, I admitted anger and frustration. But acknowledged that that frustration came from my own interpretation of facts - and my interpretation wasn't necessarily rationale. Whenever I set up an expectation for sex that goes unfulfilled, my mind interprets things pretty selfishly. Anyway... in the end, i felt better, and was grateful for her willingness to listen to me gripe.

Now I need to go do the dishes before she comes home from a meeting.

Ken

[whatdoiknow]

How do you make those great little quote boxes?

Gandalf said <I know I have to really force myself to listen and not think I am always being indicted so I can be there for her.>

Ken said <Whenever I set up an expectation for sex that goes unfulfilled, my mind interprets things pretty selfishly.>

I really felt a connection to these two quotes.

I often feel like I'm being attacked by my wife when we talk things out. It's hard to get over the feeling but I find that if I'm able to take a step outside myself and listen to her (ie. be a little more objective instead of subjective) I'm able to understand how she feels just a little bit better. It helps if I put her first and not my own selfish feelings.

Expectations blow me down. Sometimes I think, "I've been taking car of our child all day today so now it's your turn to give me a break." But I may never say anything like that and if I did I might here my wife reply with "I've been taking care of him all week and needed a break today so now we're even". I can't actually hear my wife saying that but I do think that's a proper assessment of our situation.

I think it comes down to pulling my weight. Wow, I think that's what we're all saying here. Interesting how things come full circle when you talk them out.

I definately love my wife like no other (and I try to tell her that as often as I can think to). I've learned from various programs that you have to give in order to receive, stop being selfish, and that in the long run the most fulfilling path is the one without instant gratification yet looks like the more difficult path in the beginning.

(but it's hard when all you want is to have a break from your child and have some intimate time with your spouse)

make the effort

what do I know

[Carly]

I really liked what K said in response to this issue.

Ken, I think that what you're experiencing is very common. I'm a little bit older than you/your wife, have been married for approx. 15 years, work & have two children. My husband, too, had a vasectomy a few years back...(BTW, that's interesting what your doctor told you...because my husband did have one or two occasions post-surgery when his testicles (sorry) became rather engorged. That would explain it. Noone warned us about that.)

Anyway, although my husband and I love each other like crazy, and are still very attracted to one another, sometimes the frequency of our love life is greater than others. To be honest, I think that for many women, it's easier to forego sex than it is for many men. We're more affected by the whole scenario (do I feel good about myself? Am I worn out? Do I feel frumpty? Am I sick of being tugged-at all day...mentally & physically, at home & work. And so on.)...whereas in general, for men, it's easier for sex to be a purely physical outlet.
Please excuse these SWEEPING generalities, which I generally tend to avoid! However, I think that for the most part, in this case, they're often true.

At this point, with our very busy lives, we often simply retreat to the shower together! The kids have no idea what is REALLY going on in there, they just think that mom and dad are showering. We can turn on the fan, lock the door, and grab a bit of private time. It's often easier than trying to get private time inthe bedroom!
So we'll either start our day that way, or end our day that way. I guess my point is, you have to find what works in your own situation.

And, even during those times when one of us, or both of us, are just too tired...we (as someone else suggested) make a point of saying that our minds and hearts want to be having passionate sex, but our bodies just won't comply! We joke, then cuddle. And we try to be sensitive to each other in this regard.

I also agree with what people have shared regarding a woman feeling more warmly towards a husband who is contributing around the house. That IS a hugely attractive thing, and it's practical! If he's helping to relieve his wife's burdens, she's going to have more energy AND to feel more loving (less resentful) towards him. It's just smart all the way around!