milla
Full Member
Posts: 170
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Post by milla on Dec 18, 2007 2:13:38 GMT -5
Whaaa? They got increased confidence, because due to society's own issues that it scapegoats onto women it generally takes a lot of women that long to say 'fuggit' and go for what they want sexually. But obviously they just went out of style. I guess that explains why the 30+ single women I know have pretty active sex lives. I had always heard these ideas bandied about mostly by men, but it doesn't actually hold true in real life. One thing you can always count on in life is that there is always an ever ready supply of sexually available males whether you want it or not. For one thing, younger males are generally quite willing to step in to fill that gap. I would say that things become more difficult on the relationship/marriage front, but definitely not on the sexual front. There are 60 year old women at my office who are single and active (not with 60 year old men). To the OP's original point about feeling pressured for sex. Your gf was surely disappointed because she wanted to be close to you cause that's part of a normal relationship, probably much less so for the sex in and of itself. I find that such an unusual mentality for a male for one thing, but also kind of porn-induced to be fearing all these potentially "pushy" women. I think it's porn that gives men this mentality that we're all just gagging for it. What is this new breed of male that acts as if he is persistently feeling he must flee and/or avoid these man-eating insatiable women.
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Post by imtheoneincontrol on Dec 18, 2007 2:18:58 GMT -5
Thanks folks.
lifeforce, I would say that human sexuality is incredibly complicated, and the host of issues brought up here are not just brought into effect with the dawn of pornography and the internet. Sexuality is an illusive, difficult side of human nature. It's desirable and yet awful. Beautiful and yet dirty. Completely done, I'd say that while I am sympathetic to the view that sex is "God ordained," I am not a creationist. I believe the evidence is overwhelming that we are evolved from apes. Nevertheless, I don't think we should behave like apes. The internet allows us to do so; in the comfortable privacy of our homes we can gaze for as long as we wish. I do at times think about what it means to be "fully human," as my Catholic theology/morality class discussed in high school. I don't think Elizabethean England quite had it right, though. Sex is at least partly for enjoyment. And while I do think emotional intimacy is important for lovemaking, I think there are layers of intimacy. I don't think there's an all-or-nothing, "good" sex (in the sense of "right") vs. bad sex (in the sense of "wrong.") Husbands who love their wives talk about their wives letting them use their bodies. In a sense I think that's true - we are in some sense using each other all the time. In fact, our genes are using us in order to reproduce.
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Post by lifeisshort on Dec 18, 2007 9:08:14 GMT -5
imtheoneincontrol:
Fascinating post. I've often had the same set of thoughts, although I am not Catholic and I am hardly religious. The best I've been able to come up with at age 40 is that I grew up with sisters only, and remember a lot of "that guy made a pass at me, how disgusting etc." That shaped my views about sex being a dirty thing for quite some time. Along with my attempts to be spiritual but the conflict of "dirty thoughts" popping into my head. These seem to have carried on into adulthood for me. P for me was sort of "going crazy"- seeing others acting out what I wanted to happen with me, but I was always a reserved and "nice guy" (so they thought). My question to you is- any fear of sex related to any of the females you grew up with? Mother, sisters etc. Just curious, thanks for interesting post that sheds some light on my history. Life
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Post by lifeforce on Dec 18, 2007 11:28:57 GMT -5
Milla -
My apologies, I didn't clarify my meaning well enough. What I meant was that as women age they find it more and more difficult to find straight, single, sane men who are looking to commit. Yes, of course, obviously there are always men who are available for sex, and these women I know DO have active sex lives, it's just that they keep meeting guys who want ONLY that, so when they meet a guy who's serious about committing, they get very excited indeed. I'm not saying this on some theoretical level, this is what my female friends have told me, and what I was told by women I was dating before I got married. There are also geographical differences as well; I live in an urban area in which women generally outnumber men, and they GREATLY outnumber the available supply of eligible single guys in their late 30s-early 40s, but this may not be true everywhere. But around here, "pickings are slim" is the thing I keep hearing from women.
Anyway, what I was trying to say here was that imtheoneincontrol is potentially very eligible for women: he's sane, thoughtful, serious about his life and obviously has a lot to offer. But the fear-of-sex thing will potentially drive women away and it has to be dealt with. Good luck!
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Post by completelydone on Dec 18, 2007 23:44:36 GMT -5
Thanks folks. lifeforce, I would say that human sexuality is incredibly complicated, and the host of issues brought up here are not just brought into effect with the dawn of pornography and the internet. Sexuality is an illusive, difficult side of human nature. It's desirable and yet awful. Beautiful and yet dirty. Completely done, I'd say that while I am sympathetic to the view that sex is "God ordained," I am not a creationist. I believe the evidence is overwhelming that we are evolved from apes. Nevertheless, I don't think we should behave like apes. The internet allows us to do so; in the comfortable privacy of our homes we can gaze for as long as we wish. I do at times think about what it means to be "fully human," as my Catholic theology/morality class discussed in high school. I don't think Elizabethean England quite had it right, though. Sex is at least partly for enjoyment. And while I do think emotional intimacy is important for lovemaking, I think there are layers of intimacy. I don't think there's an all-or-nothing, "good" sex (in the sense of "right") vs. bad sex (in the sense of "wrong.") Husbands who love their wives talk about their wives letting them use their bodies. In a sense I think that's true - we are in some sense using each other all the time. In fact, our genes are using us in order to reproduce. OK, I can see where you are coming from, but I'm telling you that in my experience dirty sex is not good sex. I've seen way too much porn and slept with way too many men in my life. A lot of that was dirty sex; porn fantasies played out in real life. It's not fulfilling. I tried to be fulfilled by it; thought I would be. It never happened. So, I'm not even really speaking about right verses wrong, but about what is good (meaning hot meaningful sex) verses bad (it sucked, or wasn't what I thought it would be) sex. Am I wrong in thinking that you said you are a virgin? I am not anything remotely close to a virgin. So, I'm trying to impart to you reality. If you had the dirty sex, no strings attached, don't call me in the morning sex that I have had, it will not and CAN NOT fulfill you. It never fulfills anyone. Porn is always a let down too. You feel great while your anticipating it, getting turned on by it, woot woot, and then it's a let down. No after glow, no euphoria after, no fulfillment; just guilt, emptiness, loneliness, shame, self disgust, etc. The only form of sex I've ever had that brought bliss, peace, joy, happiness, euphoria, etc. was emotionally intimate sex with someone I love. The rest of it means nothing now. There's nothing in all those wild, dirty, pornographic sexual experiences that mean anything to me today. They aren't special. They aren't good memories. They are nothing. So, you can believe porn, which is a lie, or you can believe love. You can believe people who have been down that road and come to their senses through experience, or you can learn something from other people's mistakes instead of having to learn it on your own. One is wise, the other foolish. I wish you love and real, meaningful relationships with loving intimate, mind blowing sex, CD
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Post by imtheoneincontrol on Dec 19, 2007 21:42:17 GMT -5
lifeisshort, That's really interesting to me what you say about growing up with only sisters. I too, had one sister (and no brothers.) Much more so than other guys, I was interested in dressing well, styling my hair, and doing "cool" things in the presence of women. The more I think about it, the more I realize that my sister infused me with all these things. I was never gay, but I can give guys all the fashion pointers they would want. Many of those things about sex probably are also a consequence of having no brothers. My roomate has only brothers, and he (and his brothers) seem to have no hangups about sex. I'm so demanding when it comes to a woman - how she looks, smells, etc., that I don't think I'll ever have a girlfriend that can satisfy me. As a result, I've turned down scores of women, ever since eighth grade, when a girl confessed she wanted to make love to me and I was totally wierded out. I also think that part of my porn addiction is the fantasy that I can do whatever I want with a woman - that I don't have to put on some sort of "cool." Anyway, lifeisshort, I'd love to talk to you more about your history with women and how it relates to having only sisters.
Lifeforce, thank you for the compliments, though I'm often not sane at all - hence the porn confusion. I do think I'm overcoming my revulsion towards sex. What's wierd I guess is not that I can't maintain an erection through intercourse, but rather that I can't seem to get an erection at all when I'm with a woman. There have been some exceptions, and I certainly don't have any difficulty when I'm on my own.
CD, thank you for that. I'd have to agree- lovemaking with someone I'm deeply in love with would have to be much better than all the dirty sex in China.
Itoic
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friendlygiant
Full Member
" I must become the change,I want to be. "
Posts: 145
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Post by friendlygiant on Dec 19, 2007 22:09:02 GMT -5
Sex is what you make it.It can be a truly intimate experience or..it can be an animalistic response. As supposed ,thoughtful,rational beings we can transcend the animal level and bring our sex life into the spiritual realm per say....Years of pa/mb have tarnished our view of sexuality,we have gone astray....each of us in our own degrees of perversion. -FG
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Post by realthing on Dec 20, 2007 3:15:30 GMT -5
religion has attempted to gain control over what is one of human's basic instincts. and i agree in doing so has totally messed up people's perceptions. it's like when you get parenting wrong when you constantly concentrate on demonising(lost for another word) the undesirable behavior of kids i.e. concentrating always on the bad as opposed to nurturing the good. i suppose the intentions were to recognize how special sex between 2 people was by sanctifying it within marriage - but yes the whole thing has went terribly wrong - ending in this whole concept of sex being viewed as dirty. a lot of us got through that whole indoctrination and realized that sex wasn't like that at all - rather it was men via religion who did that. that kind of religious influence is i think definitely in rapid decline but it seems to be that the p industry was only too available to step into it's shoes - so now we've got men using the p industry to create the illusion of sex being something filthy - has perverted the image of sex far more than what religion ever did. so now all of us (whether or not we view p directly) have constructed our sexuality around these lies perpetuated by both these institutions.
before i had kids i was always onthe side of the nurture debate (and still am) but having kids made me realize that as humans there are definitely instinctual behaviors that we can neither deny or ignore. like when i start to lactate in response to my baby's cries, or how the baby naturally turns to it's mother's breast to feed - it may need a little guidance on the latching on but once it's got it that's it - it's away - and thanks to it's natural instinctual behavior. i think sex should be like that also. the sexual drive is a natural instinct and with just a little bit of coaxing... the thing is it's now more complicated than that 'cos we've now got culture to thank for intervening via it's attempts at controlling that sexual drive and the resulting misinformation and perverted view it has created for us all. so now we've got all that baggage to sift through before we can enjoy one of the most natural\instinctual things in the world.
i believe that sex can be something really great outwith the concept of love (love just makes it better) - but raw sex is not pure dirty sex - that's just what the p industry has created for us. i am just really becoming aware of this - but when i have kinky sex with my h - i am just enacting scenarios which i believed were going to be a turn on for him - this is what turned me on - the thought that he would be heightened sexually from these enactments('cos that's wot a pornofied society had taught me - wot is that line about a wife being a whore in the bedroom!) - not that they in themselves were initially and in themselves any big turn on for me. and with each of these enactments i thought you were adding to the library of your sexual experience. in fact every single perverted idea is what seems to equate in this society to our concepts of sexual experience. anyway the very act of experiencing sex within any given sexual scenario does then reinforce what i then feel as sexual arousal (as opposed to just feeling it via my h's desires) - god don't know if this is making any sense now. i suppose the point is that p has both indirectly and directly determined what and how we experience sex - but it needn't do - 'cos in it's natural state sex is and if we're luckily enough to couple it with love, is something far more arousing and fulfilling.
if you're looking for advice i would suggest that before you look to getting into any relationship with a woman (sex or no sex involved) you should really try and sort out you p problem first - otherwise it is going to taint any relationship. in anycase it's not fair for you to put your problems with p onto an unsuspecting partner. i also empathise with you on finding a partner who is understanding of your beliefs in not having sex before marriage - funny how society has totally turned on it's head like that - i suspect 50 yrs ago the opposite was true. i for one believe that i will never again have sex on a try before you buy basis:-)
everything will work out - but concentrate on sorting out your habit.
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Post by rockwell on Dec 20, 2007 16:43:18 GMT -5
Sex is not dirty if used by its intended purposes.
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Post by freespirit on Dec 21, 2007 0:52:29 GMT -5
I relate to you in a many ways, growing up in a family where sex is a taboo topic and I was encouraged not to date until later in high school. I feel as though I've been struggling to catch up ever since. I used to be terrified to even talk to women much less go out on dates with them. So in high school, having a low-paying job that didn't exactly build self-esteem, and used to MB as a way to cope and spend my Friday/Saturday nights. Plus, once I finally was old enough to drive a car and had passed what I guessed was an acceptable age for me to have a girlfriend since my parents still haven't officially told me it's okay to date and I'm 28, I still didn't pursue all that many women, or I fixated on one and then would be crushed when she wouldn't go out with me because I stood there shaking and babbling incoherently about taking her to dinner. So I did what most people would do if they needed to learn a new skill. I started studying a lot of information about how to meet women and communicate better. I learned a lot about myself ways to improve my self-esteem. And it's not about trying to trick women into bed, or me being a fake in order to get girls. I want nothing to do with that kind of negativity In my reading I came across a lot of different "guru's" some of which are probably sex addicts, some are normal guys like you and I who got tired of surfing the net for their next companion. What I found is that your youth is a critical time period in the development process.....where you learn to make mistakes, trial and error, etc. I missed all that and didn't start even trying until I was 22. One book I read, The Game by Neil Strauss was extremely interesting about a community of guys in Los Angeles who decided handle this problem they all in common, and eventually launched a website www.themysterymethod.com. It's important to remember that knowledge in the wrong hands can be used for the wrong reasons. Some guys took the info and became womanizers (which I don't advocate), but others took the info to marry the kind of woman they had always dreamed about. I learned a lot from reading and internet websites to better myself and express the REAL me in order to date the kind of women I want to. Can you find a girl who is a virgin and marry her? ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Don't settle for less than you know you deserve. Focus your energy on what you really want and the right situation/woman/etc will find you. For me, it isn't about having sex with a girl. It's about building a life and equipping myself with the right skills so that I can attract the kind of girl I want. Not the kind of girl my buddy would like to hook up with. I've found looking back that a lot of the girls I had tried to date were completely wrong for me and hung around mostly because the friends I had were wrong for me....furthermore, the reason even those girls wouldn't date me had more to do with me not being right than it did with them. I needed to pull my self together and build my own self-esteem. For along time, I didn't even know what it meant to have self-esteem and I finally have the confidence to be selective of the type of women I will and will not date without compromising my Christian values. The point I'm trying to make here my friend, albeit a long one, is that you owe it to your self to live the kind of life you dream about, whatever it is, and take the necessary steps to get there. Don't let negative people question your motives because everyone moves at different paces and we all peak at different times. I'm here because after what seemed like a lifetime of rejection, misery, and failure, I am on the verge of really living the kind of life I dreamed about living all those Saturday nights locked in my room, and this PA is a big monkey on my back that I want to shake once and for all. I hope you'll find this to be helpful. Merry Christmas
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Post by imtheoneincontrol on Dec 22, 2007 17:52:36 GMT -5
Thank you, folks. I never really admitted to anyone that I have a fear of sex, and you folks have been very supportive. Realthing, I'm sympathetic to your tone about living in a male-dominated society. I don't think of myself in that way. To be honest with you, I'm not even into the stupid porn stuff they do on screen. I'm against breast implants. I think they're hideous. In fact, I would avoid those videos of women who obviously seemed to do this for a living. For me the videos I found more exciting were the ones that seemed to be of at least fairly attractive couples who were really into each other. Kissing, holding hands, etc. are much bigger turn-ons to me than crazy acrobatics and moaning to make the neighbors hear. I don't know what that's worth, if anything. I'd still like to do away with porn. Right now I don't even know if I want a relationship, though. I know some pretty attractive women who might be interested in getting to know me better, but I'm not sure I want anything to happen with them. Often when I'm feeling sort of lukewarm about a woman, I'd rather avoid all complications altogether. I'm like that. I think I've driven a lot of women nuts because I'm just lukewarm. I'm sociable and enjoy the company of women. I just don't often meet a woman I really want to spend too much time and energy on. Is it a fear of commitment? Maybe. I'm ridiculously picky. I have met some girls I'd have been interested in sticking with, but they kind of just shut me down. It's left me feeling rather bitter. I tend to go for women in their young to mid twenties, which makes me feel rather disconcerted that I'm now thirty. I've come to the conclusion that I need to forget about women for a while and focus, as you advise, on overcoming this addiction. My latest strategy is this: I'm going to get really involved in good novels when I'm not at work. I feel the humanity I find in reading the classics is extremely rewarding. It keeps me actively engaged and curious about other people's lives.
freespirit, it's good to hear your positivity about finding a social life. I have a friend who has always been highly introverted and into mathematics and science. He claims that the program you recommend has really changed his life. I might look into it. I don't think I have many problems engaging women in light conversation. My trouble is that I can't find a single one of them that I really like and who likes me back! There have been some exceptions to that, and I need to keep trying. Social life is fun and rewarding. I need to make a point of continuing with it.
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