daftpunkez
Full Member
"To Err Is Human, To Forgive Divine"
Posts: 148
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Post by daftpunkez on Dec 11, 2007 7:24:14 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I have not been on the board recently because I've conquered some of my bad habits. Until recently, when they have returned.
I have indulged in a few P binges - lasting hours on end. I have probably wasted 8/9 hours of the past week doing so. Whilst being 'in a binge' I find it utterly impossible to stop yet I am unable to know what it is I am looking for. I become locked in a zombiefied state where I MUST look at more yet have no goal or objective as to what I am searching for.
My only conclusion is that P opens up certain emotional desires, such as lust and desire and after a certain time frame (30mins or so??) that desire evaporates leaving a person viewing such material in a state where they need love and companionship - emotions that P rarely, if ever, exhibits. (The most shocking thing in P is kissing, it seems misplaced). Therefore, a P binge ensues where a search for more exciting P is confused with a longing for REAL companionship?
Does this hypothesis tally with other people's experiences?
D.P.
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Post by breakingfree on Dec 11, 2007 9:02:44 GMT -5
Daft,
Maybe, but does answering this really help in your recovery.
IMO, we get too wrapped in the fact that it is P*** addiction and forget that at its root level it is AN ADDICTION.
If you were an alcoholic the above statement would read, "I find it utterly impossible to stop yet I am unable to know WHY it is I am DRINKING. I become locked in a zombiefied state where I MUST DRINK MORE yet have no goal or objective as to WHY I am DRINKING" . What is more important to your recovery, knowing WHY you are acting out or HOW to stop it? IMO, it is more useful to concentrate on the behavioral antecedents(triggers) and coping methods to avoid or redirect you actions when triggers arise.
Hang in there, One Day At A Time,
bf
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Post by Three Legged Dog on Dec 11, 2007 9:53:46 GMT -5
DP,
Been there, done that. Best thing is to focus on not starting the binge. Checkout Rational Recovery, only takes a half-hour or so to go through.
But the biggest help is to come here and read. Whenever you feel the urge, just come here and read. Posting helps too. You don't have to have anything particularly useful to say; if posting helps you, enough said.
Regards,
TLD
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Post by mo4wo1 on Dec 11, 2007 10:01:19 GMT -5
Well... what are you doing for a recovery, right now? Is sobriety all you're going for right now?
IMO, if that's it, you're only wanting to achieve sobriety, the addiction can & will most likely pop back into your life. recovery is so important. And yes, true recovery does address the
"why". You just can't escape that fact to achieve real recovery & sobriety... IMO.
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Post by Curious Voyager on Dec 11, 2007 10:38:14 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I have not been on the board recently because I've conquered some of my bad habits. Until recently, when they have returned. Addict speak. this is addiction not bad habits and you conquered nothing because here they are. almost textbook description of addictive acting out state. you were in the zone. More addict speak here. pornography is your substance. It possess NO emotions and no human characteristics. It is a poison that you consume it does not even know you exist. It is utterly empty and that is how it leaves us. Addictive acting out is the search to suppress or rule feelings. Not mine |
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Post by Curious Voyager on Dec 11, 2007 10:41:39 GMT -5
Daftpunkez, will you share with us your experience during this period with masturbation? Did you continue to masturbate and did that contribute to your current acting out?
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Post by somedood on Dec 11, 2007 16:53:59 GMT -5
Wow, that is a great statement right there.
I think most all addicts use the addiction to cope with emotions, but as CV stated - it just leaves emptiness behind.
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daftpunkez
Full Member
"To Err Is Human, To Forgive Divine"
Posts: 148
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Post by daftpunkez on Dec 11, 2007 20:50:29 GMT -5
Dear CV,
I am slightly confused by your response and wish to make a few points:
Firstly, 'Bad habits' was a euphemism for addiction, although habit does mean 'a recurrent, often unconscious pattern of behavior that is acquired through frequent repetition.' Therefore, I have what I would legitimately deem to be 'a bad one'.
Secondly, avoiding indulgence in such habits surely means they are conquered? If you do not believe this to be the case then any person who abstains from their addiction for the rest of their life, only to succumb to them in their final days would therefore be catagorised as a lifelong addict? 'Breaking Free' in this thread quotes "one day at time" as being the measure of success - your philosophy indicates that no progress has been made if any slip occurs.
Obviously it doesn't. I was discussing the person watching it. You will also note that music does not possess such qualities, nor literature, nor film. People invest certain emotions in what they hear, read see and in turn what they think.
So although I describe what you call as being an:
you say it does not tally? Hmm.
The point of the thread was to understand why certain people 'binge' on P way beyond a point where they are experiencing a 'high' from their addiction. If a high was present then that would make perfect sense but where there is none then what drives a person onwards could be the key to what causes their addiction in the first place.
Addiction is often a state of looking for something (the end of pain, happiness, ability to deal with certain things, etc) in the place they are least likely to find it (drink, drugs, P etc).
Thanks anyway.
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facingit
Full Member
One day at a time
Posts: 111
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Post by facingit on Dec 11, 2007 20:57:11 GMT -5
Daft, Maybe, but does answering this really help in your recovery. IMO, we get too wrapped in the fact that it is P*** addiction and forget that at its root level it is AN ADDICTION. If you were an alcoholic the above statement would read, "I find it utterly impossible to stop yet I am unable to know WHY it is I am DRINKING. I become locked in a zombiefied state where I MUST DRINK MORE yet have no goal or objective as to WHY I am DRINKING" . What is more important to your recovery, knowing WHY you are acting out or HOW to stop it? IMO, it is more useful to concentrate on the behavioral antecedents(triggers) and coping methods to avoid or redirect you actions when triggers arise. Hang in there, One Day At A Time, bf Wow, breakingfree, I think this is a five star point. I think fascination with the P part of the PA is often simply transferred fascination with P, which is, of course, a major part of the A. Curious Voyager - you make some excellent points, but is your tone not a bit adverserial? |
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friendlygiant
Full Member
" I must become the change,I want to be. "
Posts: 145
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Post by friendlygiant on Dec 11, 2007 21:35:13 GMT -5
I think CV has hit the nail on the head. We're talking about a wilful act,carried out by persons of their own free will.You(I ) choose to pa/mb,however ingrained and repetitive this act has developed; the earmarks of a true addiction. I believe until you(I) finally face these facts we're doomed to repeat this wasteful pastime for time and enternity. WE have to meet this problem head on,try to suppress it,till we have some breathing space for analysis.
CV-adverserial ?,...perhaps " tough love " would be a more appropriate definition ?...Keep up the good fight.
-FG
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Post by Curious Voyager on Dec 11, 2007 22:47:11 GMT -5
Adversarial? Has daftpunkez does something to become my adversary? Give me a break! I can most certainly be adversarial. Keep looking for it and you will see it. We addicts are well known for the chips we carry on our shoulders. We tend to be defensive and combative when we are not handled with kit gloves. Hell we even get into when it isn't even us being conversed with. Look for ugly, you'll find it. Look for mean, it'll be there. Look for support for your recovery, you'll find it. THE only important thing that takes place here is support and healing from the addiction and damage of pornography. You cannot hope to agree with or like everybody here. We are a sample of society at large and a very skewed sample at that. Put your egos aside if you can find a way. Recovery isn't about being right all the time, it's about changing who you are day by day, maybe minute by minute. It takes work, learning, and patience. Addiction is addiction, how else can it be said? Secondly, avoiding indulgence in such habits surely means they are conquered? Habit--addiction NOT the same. Despite that by your own definition, you have not conquered them as you are reporting binges. Or did I misunderstand that too? Taking a break between acting out is not "conquering" anything. Two things, you don't know what my philosophy is or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Secondly you have grossly misstated to the point of putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said you had made no progress. I have repeated over and over now for years that sobriety of any amount is the building block of recovery. Good solid sobriety allows recovery to take place. Being DRY or just abstaining is not recovery. Conquered, since you are giving me language lessons means defeated, overcome---you say you binged--the enemy has not been conquered who can return to the fight. Again not what I said. I answered your question straight up. That is not my experience. Who said your post doesn't add up. Sorry I don't know what you are saying here. The neuro-chemicals involved don't just evaporate suddenly. Your meaning is lost to me. Could it be based on a flawed premise? Often? WTH? You're welcome. I notice the other question you are ignoring. Is that the real source of your defensiveness? |
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Post by Curious Voyager on Dec 13, 2007 17:07:16 GMT -5
For decades I was a willful man who had bad habits. I was self-reliant, I was strong, I was smart, I was in charge of my life. For decades I hurt and I suffered while "controlling" my habits. I even "conquered" them, sometimes for months and even a couple years.
All throughout out my winning and losing with these habits very little changed except the level of filth I sought, the pain and shame it caused, and the damage to my relationships. NOTHING F^&^%$(*)(U CHANGED as long as I was in charge and using my strength and intellect and handling it all by my self.
Then a while back these "habits" were revealed for what they ARE - an addiction and there is no euphemism and no need to try and smooth it over with niceties. It was a full-blown addiction and my life was unmanageable and out of control.
I accepted the first step--I am POWERLESS and I need help. I began to look for and find help and add tools to my inventory when they arrived. Since I have been dealing with my ADDICTION through recovery principles and WORK things have changed and dramatically.
I also found that continuing masturbation while trying to abstain from and recover form pornography was a futile and self-defeating strategy.
I'm Herb and I'm a pornography and masturbation addict and I work recovery every day.
So, any advice and does this match up with anybody else's experience?
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Post by Brad7 on Dec 13, 2007 20:22:27 GMT -5
My only conclusion is that P opens up certain emotional desires, such as lust and desire and after a certain time frame (30mins or so??) that desire evaporates leaving a person viewing such material in a state where they need love and companionship - emotions that P rarely, if ever, exhibits. (The most shocking thing in P is kissing, it seems misplaced). Therefore, a P binge ensues where a search for more exciting P is confused with a longing for REAL companionship? Does this hypothesis tally with other people's experiences? D.P. Why should a woman want to satisfy your emotional "desires"? I think if you talk in language like that the only women who will have anything to do with you are women who will satisfy your emotional "desires" in exchange for money, fame (if you can offer it) or anything which will have very little to do with emotion, love or anything that many hold in high regard. Best wishes Brad |
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Post by Big Country on Dec 13, 2007 22:25:41 GMT -5
I have binged for hours at a time and I thnk it is for the same reason that a Heroin addict continues to use even when the high is no longer there. They are just trying to feel normal. Even the the initial high goes away, I bet if you hooked up monitoring devices to your bp and heartrate, you would still find them elevated and the chemicals would still be racing through your body. In this state, you still feel more "alive" than you do normally and that is how hours can fly by.
As to the other posts, I welcome any analysis from anyone that is willing to take the time to respond to my post. I have made excuses for my whole life and have justified this addiction until I am sick of it. Rather than analyze it the advice is perfect, just try it on for a while and see if it fits. If not, no big deal, someone still cares enough to help. Of course if it fits, you need to deal with it.
Just my 2 cents
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Post by ladybug71 on Dec 14, 2007 11:48:05 GMT -5
daft,
One thing you mentioned makes some sense to me - you mentioned that after 30 minutes ("or so" - usually longer for me) - okay, after a certain amount of time, you realize you're no longer getting quite the high you originally were. yet you keep looking. Yeah - I've been there. Mid-binge is not the same as when you first start. The altered emotional state is the same, though - numbness, zombie, etc. I can't speak for you, but I continue binging to AVOID the consequences of the binge itself. Once I stop "using", then I have to face the unpleasant fallout of my binge, like guilt, shame, embarassment, frustration, depression, and anxiety.
I get to thinking things like "I'm already here - I might as well enjoy it" (which is itself a well-contrived lie that encapsulates much of my addiction) or other similar addict thoughts.
The irony, though, is that by postponing "the end" of a binge, all of those things I'm avoiding only become magnified when I finally DO stop! Instead of having "a slip" for a few minutes, which is bad enough, but which maybe will not screw me up horribly for weeks to come, I allow it to turn into a whole different animal altogether, the dreaded "binge."
... of course, why do we really need to draw any lines between a "slip" and a "binge"? As if a "slip" is somehow better for me. For me, I think that any time I allow myself to indulge my addict desires, even for a minute or so, I've gone too far. Granted, it is probably better to only indulge for a few minutes then for a few hours, but both of them are BAD for me. I can't have ANY of that in my life any more. I shouldn't have ever let in in to begin with, and allowing even a bit of it back into my life only opens the doors for bigger problems.
Anyway, there's a few thoughts from the bug.
lb
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