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Post by choselife on Nov 24, 2007 9:11:25 GMT -5
I totally understand what you are saying. I have been "in the moment" according to that definition of it every single time preceding acting out. Probably, the more typical term used might be being in the PA or SA fog. Anyhow, much more important than the terminology that we use is just understanding each other, and I totally understand what you are saying. If I stayed "in the moment" when my mind drifted toward PA/SA thoughts, that would keep me out of the fog that you so well describe. And once I am in that fog, it is infinitely harder for me to be in the moment.
I understand, it is a big challenge. I have no particular advice other than not letting any of those P thoughts linger. What specifically triggers those urges, other than it being around the month mark? I think there is always something there.
CL
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Post by sandpaper on Nov 24, 2007 15:00:07 GMT -5
Hi Mr. B.,
Again, a very interesting discussion. If by "in the moment," you mean a purely mental state in which we are completely detached from the wisdom of our experience with PA -- whether that be from our past experiences or our knowledge of the future consequences of indulging in addictive behavior -- I agree that is something we must avoid. Indeed, that state of mind is the very essence of compulsive behavior.
So your point is certainly a good one. I think, then, the issue becomes what it always has been: how does one avoid entering into, or acting upon, such a state of mind? The answer, I believe, lies in the traditional understanding of living "in the moment."
And so, as it should be, we learn from each other about how to move along this difficult path.
SP
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Post by mrbister on Nov 25, 2007 10:46:23 GMT -5
Yes, that state of mind is certainly the essence of compulsive behaviour - when the subject of our addiction comes into our minds we can choose whether or not to entertain the thought, to take it further or to leave it alone. The moment we begin to entertain it, the more involved we become in the very moment we're in, and as the thought is entertained more it is as though the time in front and behind us that we relate to shrinks inwards from both sides until all that is left in the rightnowthisveryinstant.
The less time in front and behind us there is to relate to, the less basis we have for rational argument not to use. This is due to the way that the argument derives from the effects addictive behaviour has on us in the future, and on experiences in the past. Without future or past there is not much of a strong argument. Yes, there are some other reasons, but certainly not as powerful as the reason that our lives are ruined by it, as well as the lives of others.
Anyway, that's it I guess. We just have to be careful not to enter into the state of thought-entertainment or we face difficulties escaping it's slippery slope to P use.
Thank you sandpaper for taking the time to read and understand my point, as to you too CL.
You are right that the answer lies in the traditional understanding of living "in the moment". Mental alertness, a deep awareness of our thoughts and activities, gives us the ability to stop ourselves from entertaining thoughts we should not. We must stay aware of the moment, of the things that are going on in our head especially, in order to avoid entering into or acting upon such a state of mind.
I am glad that we have been able to learn from each other in this exchange. Here's to hoping there will be much more shared learning in the future.
In response to you CL:
I am avoiding allowing the thoughts to linger. I know that is the key to success. It is still challenging at times as I'm sure you can appreciate. But it is never the case that we cannot succeed. I will be ok, just having a slightly hard time of it at the moment.
The triggering of the urges could have come from being "left hanging" in a manner of speaking by my gf - we did not have time to be intimate before she had to leave for a few days. However, I find this is not normally a problem. I think there is a more significant factor. I have not been sleeping well for a while and have been feeling increasingly tired and worn-down. I already know that is a trigger for me as it is for many others, so I think this likely to be the main cause. The additional cause may be chemicular / to do with brain changes?
If I often found 30 days hard in the past then it's possible that it's a standard amount of time before a withdrawal period for me. Also it may be a time when neural pathways are starting to be lost and others replacing them, so perhaps there's a resurgence in urges prior to this in my addict-self's attempt not to lose the strong desire for a fix. Something like that anyway. I have a feeling that explanation was about as clear as mud, but I don't have time to elaborate more fully now. Importantly though it seems I can recognise the factors which are causing the urges. And I thank you for reminding me to look at them, because I find that seeing the causes is helpful in resisting the urges. It is a point of focus that explains their arisal. Understanding seems a great weapon in fighting such mental conflicts. So once again I thank you for getting me to assess the situation, I had not done so and currently I feel a sense of relief for having done so as I had not thus far.
Well, today's been going fairly well. I've been quite productive and able to go about my day without too much of a distraction from urges.
However, I had some unusual dreams last night. Furthermore I did not sleep well. Perhaps this was in part due to my current state of apparent withdrawal. I hope for better sleep soon. This bad sleep left me feeling somewhat tired today, and I was already feeling tired beforehand for a lack of sleep. So today seems to have been pretty good considering those facts.
Well, that's it for today. Roll on around forty to fifty days where hopefully I'll be out of this initial withdrawal stage fully.
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Post by mrbister on Nov 29, 2007 11:13:49 GMT -5
I have been fairly busy lately so not that much time to update.
Today I've been feeling tired, and yesterday too. In my tiredness I have been feeling weakened, and have been struggling with powerful urges. Yesterday I came close to spoiling everything. Today has been better but still tough. Again I have felt close to spoiling it all at times. But I have not. I WILL remain strong on this. I HAVE to. And it is my WILL that will keep me strong through this.
I felt I needed to post here, to get these feelings out of my system. To find something to take my mind off it all. To feel that I'm doing something active in helping myself. I must remain active in this at all times.
I think I am still in a period that has typically proven tough for me in terms of the duration of sobriety. However, this time around I have a firmer resolve than ever previously. I know I must not mess up. If I were to, I would be messing up everything for myself and so many others, I would be letting all of you down. I would be admitting that I am not strong enough to control all aspects of myself. It's strange, control seems like something so simple, yet it can clearly be so complicated.
I must control myself rigorously in the next few days to eradicate the stronger urges from my system. I must allow them to dissipate through refusing to entertain any thoughts even for a second. I think I must also calm down about the issue, if I let it make me feel bad that I am struggling (even though I know I ought to be happy that I am still sober) then it would probably just be asking for trouble. I don't want to feel tired, and also a little depressed along with it.
So I must focus, I must stay busy. I must be productive, extra productive in the coming few days.
I must go for now.
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Post by mrbister on Dec 1, 2007 8:16:15 GMT -5
Well, my last post was rather brief and scatterbrained in nature, and I think this one may be too.
I have been struggling quite a bit the last few days. I still haven't managed to catch up on my sleep. I am getting stressed about certain pieces of work that it is essential I complete, and furthermore that I excel at.
I don't usually like using my journal as simply a place to rant, so I hope I can squeeze something in here that's interesting. But at the same time I've been feeling like I'm in quite a bad place this last week or so, getting closer and closer to breaking my sobriety. I haven't done so yet, but I've definitely come as close as is possible and it's worried me. I know that I need to stay strong. Right now I feel the "mist" or "shroud" descended over me. Often I cannot clearly rationalise why I cannot use P. I think it's come to the time where I really have to put my faith into my original decision as I've talked so much about on this forum.
Writing this is helping my mind to settle, giving me a little more focus. Things do seem to be clarifying somewhat in my mind. I think I'll post on here several times today if I can manage it. Hopefully that should help to strengthen my resolve by reminding me of exactly what it is that we all face.
If I get any powerful urges I will come on here. I'd really like to leave the house if any such urges come to me, but I don't think that's too realistic. I have too much which I have to get on with here. Which is somewhat paradoxical as currently the more time I try to sit down and work, the more time I seem to waste by procrastinating rather than working.
Well, I really really have to have a productive afternoon today. I have much to get on with.
In terms of something more interesting, something that isn't just a rant about my current state of mind I've been thinking recently. -I'm not sure but it sometimes seems like getting on the brink of slipping can be worse than having a total slip. Once we slip completely don't we have that iron resolve to quit, and aren't we deeply aware of our problem? Whilst when we're on the brink, we feel too safe. We are lulled into a false sense of security. That shroud sets in. Begins to cloud our judgement. It becomes harder not to repeat the behaviour of being on the brink than of a full slip. But so often being on the brink for a while eventually leads us to slip. It's a dangerous place to be.
Don't worry, this isn't shrouded beast-rationalisation: I know that allowing oneself to slip is never actually better than being so close but not actually slipping. However, it does strike me as something of a rotten situation. Well, I'm trying to claw myself away from the brink at the moment, in the face of extreme tiredness and heavy stress. Probably the worst time to face such an effort.
Thoughts of P keep entering my mind regularly and it's hard to keep letting them pass through un-entertained. But I must continue to do so. I must find the strength.
And in writing this I feel I have renewed my awareness that I do have the strength. A strength that so many others here have. So many people who have found themselves able to break free of our cursed affliction. I know I can, and am, one of those people. I know I have the resolve in me. I know that I've looked deep enough inside myself and found an unshakable foundation of my own determination. I am solely responsible for my recovery. No one else can do it for me. I must be strong and keep close tabs on my continued recovery.
This has helped lift my shroud a little, now I must keep pushing it back further, shine my own light into the dark and see clearly what I face.
I'll be back soon.
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Post by mrbister on Dec 2, 2007 11:49:56 GMT -5
Unfortunately I didn't have time to update again yesterday, but this was ok as for the rest of the day things went smoothly.
However, I am once again facing problems today. I have been on the brink. I am not exactly sure why. I think I am allowing old routines that lead to addictive outbreaks to start themselves again. I am not preventing my mind from developing ideas that are either triggers in themselves or the result of triggers external to me. It is unclear to me why I have allowed this to happen exactly, but I suspect it is partly due to an increase in my stress levels coupled with the tiredness that I have previously mentioned.
I am pretty certain that upon reflection P is something I use to escape stressful situations, as it is for many if not most people on here. I am experiencing high levels of stress at the moment which I was not aware of. My brain is usually extremely good at repressing stress automatically in such a way that I never even realise I am stressed about something. I know it is doing this as a protection and coping mechanism. Why is it doing this though? Was I always like this or is it something that developed - a product of feeling isolated in some way (even if the isolation was self-imposed)?
I have a feeling it may also relate to matters of control as previously discussed, especially in light of conversation with Sandpaper. A form of controlling my environment or at least my anxiety was to remain firmly in my comfort zone. As a bullied and sensitive child this meant becoming quiet, making myself anonymous, spending time alone, not opening up to people, essentially reducing my vulnerability.
As a result perhaps I came to self-impose isolation on myself. At times of stress, being an insular person who does not share emotions freely, my brain had to find its own way of coping with situations which caused me great stress. Its way of dealing with such situations was to essentially shut them out so that I didn't feel the pain at all. However, I suppose such stress has to find an exit somewhere. And perhaps to reduce the problem of this I found a way of keeping myself "happy" and "distracted" from the pain building up inside me which was constantly being repressed. I turned to P.
I am certain that my brain shuts things out which are intensely emotional. That is why I often feel relatively unmoved by severe situations. In some ways this could be seen as a kind of strength - a natural way of dealing with pressure without relying on others. Such people are often seen as strong. I think they usually have a healthy outlet for their pain though.
I know that when I found out my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer I didn't cry, and I didn't even feel sad. Yet I was just 14 or 15 at the time. I also remember feeling next to nothing when my mother left with my sister (my sister then cutting off contact with him for no reason), leaving me and my father alone. And struggling to show emotion to my lonely father when tears were running down his face (even though I had never seen him cry before and new how much pain he was feeling) as a result of it. That was when I was 18.
I go relatively cold when intense painful emotions arise.
Well, ok, so that's part of my psycho-self-diagnosis. I don't know how right or wrong it all is, I'm just hteorising here.
One more thing I'd like to add, I was exposed to P at a pretty unusually young age - I believe I was 8 or 9 when I witnessed it first (and it wasn't just ladies posing, it was sexual acts too).
This was a result of a much older friend and his liberal parents.
I'm not sure how much of an effect that may have had on me, nor the circumstances under which it occurred. Maybe I can say more on that another time.
Ok so I think I'll leave the analysis there for now, but I have more to add at another point. Perhaps there is one more thing I will say - this is to do with P and MB. I find my P use is not completed without MB. I am hooked in by the P, chemicals are clearly beginning to take a grip on my brain, and I am left with indellible images in my mind for some time afterwards. However, the drive is then to MB to the images. Not just for the images. This is clearly to get the sensation / chemical high that comes from actual stimulation. It's a curious coupling - sight along with stimulation, the sight isn't all that's wanted.
I can however MB without any sense of P. The connection isn't the same in reverse. Well, I think this is a fairly standard occurrence for members here, but it's interesting nontheless.
Well, that's my update. Hopefully this will help eradicate the urges from my system for today. I'm also still in my difficult recovery stage of the 30 to 40 day period. I hope I won't find it too much harder to keep fighting with the chemical stimulation I have given my brain whilst spending time on the brink.
I haven't broken sobriety but have come damn close. I won't do it though. I can continue fighting and stop the urges again. I am in control of my self.
Thanks everyone.
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Post by sandpaper on Dec 2, 2007 16:16:01 GMT -5
Hi Mr. B.,
Hang in there; I know it's quite difficult. It sounds as though you may be considering MB'ing as a substitute for the P/MB experience. That works for some here on the board. It doesn't work for me. In any event, once you figure out whether you can MB without hastening your way toward a slip (which is what happens to me), I wish you the best in adhering to your sense of "sobriety" -- whether that be without or without MB. That's a entirely separate discussion, and likely varies enough from person to person that one cannot impose a universal rule.
I see myself in much of your last post. I too have a tendency to be an isolationist, and those feelings -- of being (and/or wanting to be) closed off from others -- are intimately connected to the cycle of negative thoughts and emotions which underlie the depressive episodes I frequently experience. Sometimes, I can't tell which causes which; that is, it is often unclear whether the compulsion to isolate myself is caused by my negative thoughts or whether the negative thoughts cause me to feel like I need to isolate myself. Either way, the state of isolation tends to dramatically increase the depressive sensations. For this reason, I have to tread very carefully when experiencing sensations of isolation, for they so often lead to very bad choices -- like acting out.
As far as the inability to express and/or feel emotions, I'm on a somewhat similar page as you. I too have always had a very difficult time understanding (or knowing) how I feel about something. In that sense, I am usually blocked from reacting to it as one might otherwise. For me, though, what usually happens is that some significant event will trigger those emotions and I'll be hit with them all at once, caught completely off guard. Then, I'm left with trying to figure out what the hell just happened and what it all means.
However one slices it, like you, I am generally not connected to my feelings; it's like they exist at some other level, or, perhaps, in some alternate state of consciousness. Nonetheless, I feel their weight pressing on me, urging me to acknowledge and embrace them for what they are. The trouble is, even with this built-in motivation (over which I also appear to have little control at this point), I still can't seem to reach that place within me. This is why I say I've been trying to answer the age-old, burning questions of who I am and what I want. I am at war within myself: part of me yearns greatly to find and embrace my emotional self, part of me wants to run away from that, and still another part is simply busy trying to figure out how I even begin to find and embrace myself, assuming my parts can come to a consensus that that is what I really want to do.
In any event, such is my place. I suppose I should remember that we all suffer in some way, in some form. This is just the manner in which I suffer; these are the cards I have been dealt and with which I must play my hand throughout life. I'd love to trade them in for some other cards, but I don't think that's an option, and, a different hand of cards would just present its own set of unique troubles. I'll just have to work with what I have.
Good luck with your adventure, and take care.
SP
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Post by mrbister on Dec 3, 2007 15:37:41 GMT -5
Hi there SP. Thanks for your extensive response. And the encouragement to hang on. It really is helpful to see someone take such time and effort.
I'm not really looking into using MB as a substitute for the experience of P/MB seeing as I live with my gf and I have a regular outlet for sexual tension (not that that's all I see it as, but in the context of what we're talking about that is one effect that it has which applies). However, I do still find it interesting that I am compelled to MB when experiencing P in some way. I'm not sure if this could be a learned response, but I have my doubts about that, at least in the strictest sense. Anyway, I am just looking into all the different psychological factors that have and / or do relate to my addiction in some way or another.
I know what you mean about the chicken and egg situation relating to the isolation and depression. It is hard to work out isn't it. My brain isn't feeling too hot right now so perhaps I'll talk more about this another time soon. Also, I have the same experience as you regarding emotion, some event will trigger the release of emotions that hit me all at once. Although such events are a rare occurrence for me.
Yes, we do all suffer in some way. It's good to remember that. And it's also good to know that there's someone else who can relate closely to my own psychological experiences.
Perhaps your problem of trying out to figure out exactly "who I am" is also faced with problems of who exactly the "I" is. What constitutes the self to which that "I" refers? Perhaps that's something else to think about if you're trying to work out exactly what it is that the "I" wants. Life can be so complex.
Well, today I've had a few experiences on the brink, but it's been better than the previous few days. Hopefully this will be a continuing trend of reduction and in a few days I will be back from the brink again. I've been here far too long. I suppose I've let the shroud set in and it'd down to me to light everything back up once more. So that's what I'll get on with doing. Being on the brink can only really be my fault, even if I'm struggling to think straight. Got to place my faith back in my decision, it was made for a good reason after all.
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Post by mrbister on Dec 5, 2007 11:20:22 GMT -5
Just want to drop by here briefly now, partly to make sure I keep myself in check, partly because I don't know if I'll get a chance later.
Today has been far better than many other days recently. I've got through feeling pretty undistracted. My thoughts have stayed on track. Any times that something inappropriate has arisen in my mind I've let it drop away, perhaps not as promptly or easily as I had been a while back, but still I haven't found them troubling my mind. I'm beginning to pull back away from the edge after so many days. I have to keep this up, push faster while I'm already rolling, so I get as much momentum to carry me far away from the edge as posible. The positive and clear thoughts I have been having need to be reinforced by repeated reference and use. I must keep thinking in this way. It's a simple psychological tool but it's a good one. Habit-forming for the purpose of habit-breaking. Make the positive thoughts those more frequently visited, and in turn they will naturally feature in one's mind more. Furthermore, using them to overwrite the negative habits of thought means that those will in turn decreace. I'm not explaining anything here than nobody isn't already aware of. But it's good to write it out for myself, hopefully it'll help keep me rolling.
I'm off to build up some more momentum.
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Post by sandpaper on Dec 9, 2007 1:49:55 GMT -5
Good work, Mr. B.
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anew
Junior Member
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Posts: 80
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Post by anew on Dec 19, 2007 3:09:54 GMT -5
I hope you are doing well and that your momentum is carrying you in the right direction. Thanks for your encouragement (in my journal) and keep up the good work.
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Post by mrbister on Dec 20, 2007 7:49:45 GMT -5
Ok, it's been around 2 weeks since I last updated. It hasn't all been easy, but over all I've done well.
For about a week after December the 8th I really didn't feel like posting at all. I was too down, feeling upset and emotionally raw. I managed to hold it together in terms of abstaining through that which is good. But here's the reason for my emotional state - I told my gf about my addiction. It was another cathartic event for me. My emotions really broke out, and perhaps that was a little unfair on her because she would no doubt have liked to have expressed anger amongst other things, but clearly my state of uncontrollable wailing, and the fact that I was shaking as I was talking, made her see that she just couldn't tell me how she felt about it straight away.
I guess the good thing was she cared enough to be worried about me and not purely be angry. Indeed, she held me as I told her about the problem. SHe's the first person that I've told who really really matters. Who I am so close to, so vulnerable to. It was a huge step. No one else close, to whom it would bea serious issue, has ever known. I've never been able to tell anyone.
Well, I told her that I had the addiction. And that I was fighting it and in recovery from it. She asked me questions which I answered honestly. For the week after that she had deep anger for me, resentment, due to the fact that she never knew this about me and she felt I had lied to her and hid something from her. Things got really hard. She told me she thought I was a different person to the one she knew. That hurt me deeply, and I thought that everything I'd fought for, all the effort I'd spent trying to pull together my life after it had torn me apart, was beginning to go to waste. I thought that it was starting to tear me apart again.
Of course amidst all this she did keep reminding me that she loved me. But at that time, seeing the way she felt, seeing how depressed and low she was, how much anger she harboured for me, it didn't matter how much she loved me. She could still have left me finding it impossible to face up to the challenge of being the partner of an addict, especially at such a young age. I wouldn't have blamed her if she had decided to leave me, I even told her so. To be honest I wanted her to leave me if it meant she would no longer have to suffer. (I didn't know how long the intense emotional pain was going to last at this point). Anyway we plugged away through the week. There were moments where she wouldn't think about what I'd told her and she was normal around me. Then suddenly she would switch back to having all that anger and resentment. She could barely manage to talk to me when she felt like that.
After about a week it all miraculously seemed to heal up, by and large, with one significant conversation. She told me she'd been checking my emails for hours on end to see if there was anything there related to P. She felt guilty for spying on me but she said she just had to know. And quite frankly, I completely and utterly understood that. I didn't even feel I had to forgive her as to me I could hold nothing against her for doing this. The most important thing was for her to find a way to get over the grief and understand the situation as quickly as possible. Any way of doing this made sense. She wasn't to blame for wanting to search my emails. In the end she found only one, from years ago, with anything to do with P. And quite honestly, when she told me what it was, I had no recollection of having anything to do with it. I suspect it was just sophisticated spam. But for the sake of argument I accepted that it could have been something purposeful on my part, seeing as I am an addict after all and confessed to having looked at ridiculous amounts of P over the years. So then more conversation ensued and after all of it she felt much much better.
The next day we were pretty much fine after having slept. And since then things have been generally normal and at times truly great.
I'm not sure if she's ever going to want to support me outright per se, it might be too much. But I am accountable to her. And having it all out in the open with her makes things so much more real. THe prospect of what failure means etc.
Well, I'm glad I told her. In the last 5 or so days since that conversation occurred I've been too busy to post. Before that I was both too busy, and also feeling too terrible to want to post. I really didn't feel like I wanted to go through writing about how I was feeling at the time.
Well, I just wanted to get that down and out really. It's been a really huge deal for me telling my gf. We're pretty serious. We also live together (although that was something decided a long time ago before we were together) so that has its own effects too.
I'm done here for now and off to get on with my day. I hope to be posting more regularly again soon.
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Post by mrbister on Dec 20, 2007 8:30:08 GMT -5
P.S. Thanks SP, and thank you too anew.
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Post by petitjean on Dec 20, 2007 13:32:30 GMT -5
Mr B, you have taken a step of great courage which ought to act as an example to me, but I simply can't bring myself as yet. All the best for you and it sounds like you're well on the way to sustained recovery.
petitjean
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Post by mrbister on Dec 21, 2007 7:03:23 GMT -5
Hi petitjean, thanks for your kind words. I hope that my actions can in some way help you to acheive what it is that you want to. You may not be ready to tell your SO yet, but at least seeing my post has got you thinking more about doing it in the future. Thanks for your encouraging words.
From time to time I'm still struggling with thoughts at the moment, although I've still not slipped. And I will not slip in the future either. I just need to focus on regaining mastery within my mind, finding things of interest to occupy me whenever inappropriate thoughts come to mind.
I have been very tired recently, and until the last few days I did not realise exactly how tired. I hope that in catching up on lost slep and refreshing myself I will regain a much more accute control of my mind, stopping it from straying down inappropriate paths so frequently etc. I always knew tiredness had a big impact on my addiction, but having not realised that I was particualrly tired until the last few days I think I may have been struggling more than necessary in the past couple of weeks.
I'm posting here this morning in the hope of setting myself up for the day in terms of attitude / mindset. Getting into the right frame of mind from the start is really important I think. What's more important is to do this in a non-trivial way. It's no good just telling yourself that you want to think well for the day. You've got to really desire it deeply, and sincerely.
It's the same for work, especially if you work from home, so far as I can see. If you start the day with leisurely pursuits and laziness then the rest of the day will be difficult and you'll keep wanting to go off and do something entertaining rather than work. Perhaps this is partly symptomatic of a weak will in those who experience it (as I'm sure there are people who can manage to start the day trivially and then return with focus to the serious business of the day) or perhaps it is not quite as straight-forward as that. However, it seems that by-and-large for a successful day you must start with a sincere intent to achieve what it is that you want to get from the day. Whether that be a good day's work, or a day free from too many troubling thoughts as an addict, it seems that 'start as you mean to go on' is a good motto for getting through successfully.
Lately I've been troubled when reading certain topics on the recovering addicts forum etc. I've been easily triggered when trying to think about the given topic. I think this is due to my tiredness (and the resulting state of mind it has brought). I hope that in getting some good nights of sleep I will regain my ability to think about these posts without struggling too much.
Or perhaps the problem is that my mind in its current state is reading things that it would have avoided altogether had it been less tired, having known that to read something of that nature was too much of a risk in the first place.
I don't know which it is, but either way I'm sure to find out once I'm less tired again.
Well, I'm off to a fairly busy day.
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