Post by zerotolerance on Dec 22, 2007 18:13:26 GMT -5
I've been trying to put my finger on that backwardness Factor lately, and I just had a light bulb moment, (or devinely blessed) one. Ya'll know how we struggle with communication issues, and esp the way they describe things, like what is p, and not p. And things about us, and our relationships that aren't true, and just all the crazy making crap.
Well, here's what I think is messed up in a nutshell. Their (some ppls-specifically habitual p/mb users) perception is hosed up in such a way as to make them view themselves as participants when they watch a movie, and to view themselves as observers when it comes to their own relationships. That's how it's backwards imo! That's where it's backwards. At least in some cases.
The latest two observations I made before reaching this conclusion was watching my h "play" a movie the other night. We were wrapping presents, I was boxing, and he was wrapping. He always plays the same movies over and over and over and over, just like he goes back to the same p, over and over, and over, and over. BORING! No movie, nor p, has ever been "good enough" to induce this in me. I don't need to see them a thousand times before or I get bored with it.
So anyway, he was quoting the entire movie. He was "playing" all their roles, esp the main character which was Captian Kirk. It was Star Trek III, the wrath of con. And he was "playing" as if he was in the moving, rather than just playing a movie. Everybody can quote the famous lines like "I'll be back", or "go ahead and make my day" or whatever like that, but how many people can quote entire movies? I'm in the freaking Rocky Horror Picture Show imo. It's like that, where everybody viewing knows all the lines and plays the roles along with the actors, while they watch the movie. Only he does it with multiple movies, all the time. That is the way he views a movie. It's as if he is in it, an active participant. It's not a concious thing, but rather it's a subconcious perception thing. It's an objectification of himself, and a supersized fantasy view as if he is the main character in the movies he watches. When he watches theses movies these events are happening too HIM, rather than him observing something happening in a movie, or to others, it's happening to HIM PERSONALLY, because HE is a character IN the movie, IN his mind, imo.
The 2nd observation I made of this was with a friend. We were talking about the movie "knocked up". I asked him what movies he'd seen lately, and he said "knocked up". [trigger] I hadn't seen the movie, only trailers, so I said, "Isn't that a movie about a guy that runs a porn site?" He said, NO, it's a movie about a one night stand where the girl gets pregnant, etc....
So I said, "does he runs a porn site". He said, "No it's not p, it's a site about scences from movies". I asked "what kind of scences, and hemmed hemmed, and hawwed, hawwed, acting like hit physically hurt to acknowledge the site was about looking for sex scenes and movies and building a site where people could access anyone's b00bs, or Bu$h, or any nudity, or sex scene, in a mainstream movie. Clearly a p site imo. But I let it go, I knew I was get a liar alarm, and a flashback from a trailer, and interviews, where they called it a p site. He called it everything but a p site, and it was the weirdest thing. He said the showed topless scenes and sex scenes but it wasn't p. And he describe the movie talking about the basically "nice guy", who blah, blah, blah..... "Okay then", sounds like p to me, and like it's about a slacker guy who runs a p site, but whatever.
So I noticed a perception difference between what he was describing, and what I had seen, and heard about the movie, but I decided to let it go because I hadn't seen the movie and I didn't really care. But I kept getting intrusive thoughts about it. Like there was more he DIDN'T say. I ignored them, but they got louder and stronger. I was nodding off in my chair one night, last thursday, and I decided to go to bed. So I started closing out my windows. One was on Msn Home, where they have featured articles flashing in a slide show. The one on my screen was for "Knocked UP". So I clicked it, and it was an article about where the actress had called the movie sexist. The author described the movie including that they went to vegas and got a lap dance, and saw Cirque du Soleil. Bingo LAP DANCE that's "A" missing part. My friend was talking about em going to vegas, but he left that part out. So I asked him about it. He said he didn't know why they kept calling it going to a strip club, or why they said it was getting a lap dance, he remembered two girls dancing topless in front of in a "bar". I asked him what kind of bar do topless girls dance in, that he wouldn't call a strip club? He couldn't answer that! He said it was "in vegas and he's never been to vegas". What the heck, we got clubs just like that one right here. I was thinking maybe they implied a lap dance, going by what he said, I didn't think they showed it. He said they didn't ever show the name of the club, so he couldn't tell where it was exactly. I tried to pin him down, where were they dancing? what were they wearing? Why wouldn't he call it a strip club? "there wasn't a stage", and there weren't other girls walking around topless", blah blah bhah. This is 40+ year old man talking. I'm confused as heck by now, and I couldn't figure out why everyone EXCEPT HIM were causually calling it a strip club and lap dance, and he was acting like he had no idea what they could possible be talking about. I trusted him, I didn't go out and buy the movie, not right away anyway. I already knew I don't like movies that spew the typical doo that p/mb and going to stip clubs for lap dances is good, and women tolerate it, and think they are "cute", or whatever other typical nonesense. I told him flat out I was trying to judge my perception of his perception because what he was saying was giving me intrusive thoughts. Ultimately I told him I would watch it and decide what it looked like for myself. And I did. The guys are driving down the road to los vegas, and the scene switches to them inside a stip club with a girl grinding in each of their laps for the entire scene. It was brief, but it was a strip club, and they were getting lap dances, and that FACT should be CLEAR to any observers viewing it imo. It wasn't implied. When I told him, what I saw, hemm hemm, haw haw, he said he told me they were topless girls and they WERE dancing in front of them. As if ON THEIR LAPS is "in front of them". HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT put them in "FRONT OF THEM". I said, you on someone lap is not in front of them, it is "in their lap". One guy has a boob pressing against his face while he watches the other guy with his nose in the crack of the other strippers butt. And he's not calling that a lap dance, nor a strip club, when I know he's been in a few. I've been thinking about this and the words he used "in front of them". Well to an observer the view was two guys getting a lap dance. I can't imagine anyone calling it any less, and I can't imagine any other possible way to describe it.
Yet there he was insisting he told me they were "dancing topless in front of them", and that I see everything as p, and all nudity looks like strip clups, and lap dances, and blah, blah, blah, blah BS! If anyone else has seen this movie what would you call that? How would you describe it? I wanted to judge his perception, and why it different from the critics. I set out to see for myself, and in my opinion, the commentary authors were dead on the money and HIS perception, or communication, is seriously flawed. Thinking about in the way my h "plays a movie" it makes more sense. If one is imagining themselves, or actually participating in getting a lap dance than I could see them saying the girls were dancing "in front of them", but they should also add "while writhing on their laps". And since when did grinding-become dancing? Shaking is not "dancing". They were dry humping, that's what I would call it at best.
So my take is his view is that of a participant, not of an observer like me. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. It makes a lot of other things make sense to, like why he throws all these other people and things that completely irrelevant into our conversations sometimes. They are relevant if you are talking about others, or those things, but they don't have squat to do with him, nor what I'm trying to talk to him about whatsoever. If I were an observer then I could throw in lots of elements that I observe in others, or in general. But when I am speaking as a participant in my REAL relationships, those things are relevant whatsoever. I normally call them diversions, and distractions. I know those type things when I hear or see them. He seems upset that I call it what it is "a lap dance", lol!! "Because he didn't see enough to just automatically call it a strip club or a lap dance at all. He described an entirely different scene than the one I saw in the movie. He claimed he was focused on the background where there was a bar. No there wasn't, there was a stage, with strippers on it, in the background, and a bunch of people standing around. I thought maybe we had watched different versions, like maybe he had an edited one, because what he described didn't happen whatsoever in the movie I watched. But the scene never shows those girls anywhere other than straddled over those guys. I asked him to watch it again, and he refused saying he didn't need too, because he already knew "I" would call it a lap dance in strip club, and "he just didn't see it that way". Well, I think I could show this movie to every other adult I know, including my h, and he say they got a lap dance in a strip club. If anyone else has a different opinion of what they saw, I'd love to hear it. Because I can't think of any other words to describe it other than clearly "getting a lap dance"[/trigger]
It's in the perception of the viewer all right, and these guys that are putting themselves in these p movies and mb as if they are the p man, are putting themselves into fantasyland in general. And totally warping their perceptions about when they are participants, and when they are observers. That where it starts imo. They say they are only watching, and therefore not participating, but that's crap. They are imagining participating, and they are evidently doing so to the point where they can no longer tell when they are observing, and when they are suppose to actually be participating. That's why they describe observing in a totally different way than we do, because they aren't observing like we do at all. This is definately one place where their view is warped and downright backwards imo.
Well, here's what I think is messed up in a nutshell. Their (some ppls-specifically habitual p/mb users) perception is hosed up in such a way as to make them view themselves as participants when they watch a movie, and to view themselves as observers when it comes to their own relationships. That's how it's backwards imo! That's where it's backwards. At least in some cases.
The latest two observations I made before reaching this conclusion was watching my h "play" a movie the other night. We were wrapping presents, I was boxing, and he was wrapping. He always plays the same movies over and over and over and over, just like he goes back to the same p, over and over, and over, and over. BORING! No movie, nor p, has ever been "good enough" to induce this in me. I don't need to see them a thousand times before or I get bored with it.
So anyway, he was quoting the entire movie. He was "playing" all their roles, esp the main character which was Captian Kirk. It was Star Trek III, the wrath of con. And he was "playing" as if he was in the moving, rather than just playing a movie. Everybody can quote the famous lines like "I'll be back", or "go ahead and make my day" or whatever like that, but how many people can quote entire movies? I'm in the freaking Rocky Horror Picture Show imo. It's like that, where everybody viewing knows all the lines and plays the roles along with the actors, while they watch the movie. Only he does it with multiple movies, all the time. That is the way he views a movie. It's as if he is in it, an active participant. It's not a concious thing, but rather it's a subconcious perception thing. It's an objectification of himself, and a supersized fantasy view as if he is the main character in the movies he watches. When he watches theses movies these events are happening too HIM, rather than him observing something happening in a movie, or to others, it's happening to HIM PERSONALLY, because HE is a character IN the movie, IN his mind, imo.
The 2nd observation I made of this was with a friend. We were talking about the movie "knocked up". I asked him what movies he'd seen lately, and he said "knocked up". [trigger] I hadn't seen the movie, only trailers, so I said, "Isn't that a movie about a guy that runs a porn site?" He said, NO, it's a movie about a one night stand where the girl gets pregnant, etc....
So I said, "does he runs a porn site". He said, "No it's not p, it's a site about scences from movies". I asked "what kind of scences, and hemmed hemmed, and hawwed, hawwed, acting like hit physically hurt to acknowledge the site was about looking for sex scenes and movies and building a site where people could access anyone's b00bs, or Bu$h, or any nudity, or sex scene, in a mainstream movie. Clearly a p site imo. But I let it go, I knew I was get a liar alarm, and a flashback from a trailer, and interviews, where they called it a p site. He called it everything but a p site, and it was the weirdest thing. He said the showed topless scenes and sex scenes but it wasn't p. And he describe the movie talking about the basically "nice guy", who blah, blah, blah..... "Okay then", sounds like p to me, and like it's about a slacker guy who runs a p site, but whatever.
So I noticed a perception difference between what he was describing, and what I had seen, and heard about the movie, but I decided to let it go because I hadn't seen the movie and I didn't really care. But I kept getting intrusive thoughts about it. Like there was more he DIDN'T say. I ignored them, but they got louder and stronger. I was nodding off in my chair one night, last thursday, and I decided to go to bed. So I started closing out my windows. One was on Msn Home, where they have featured articles flashing in a slide show. The one on my screen was for "Knocked UP". So I clicked it, and it was an article about where the actress had called the movie sexist. The author described the movie including that they went to vegas and got a lap dance, and saw Cirque du Soleil. Bingo LAP DANCE that's "A" missing part. My friend was talking about em going to vegas, but he left that part out. So I asked him about it. He said he didn't know why they kept calling it going to a strip club, or why they said it was getting a lap dance, he remembered two girls dancing topless in front of in a "bar". I asked him what kind of bar do topless girls dance in, that he wouldn't call a strip club? He couldn't answer that! He said it was "in vegas and he's never been to vegas". What the heck, we got clubs just like that one right here. I was thinking maybe they implied a lap dance, going by what he said, I didn't think they showed it. He said they didn't ever show the name of the club, so he couldn't tell where it was exactly. I tried to pin him down, where were they dancing? what were they wearing? Why wouldn't he call it a strip club? "there wasn't a stage", and there weren't other girls walking around topless", blah blah bhah. This is 40+ year old man talking. I'm confused as heck by now, and I couldn't figure out why everyone EXCEPT HIM were causually calling it a strip club and lap dance, and he was acting like he had no idea what they could possible be talking about. I trusted him, I didn't go out and buy the movie, not right away anyway. I already knew I don't like movies that spew the typical doo that p/mb and going to stip clubs for lap dances is good, and women tolerate it, and think they are "cute", or whatever other typical nonesense. I told him flat out I was trying to judge my perception of his perception because what he was saying was giving me intrusive thoughts. Ultimately I told him I would watch it and decide what it looked like for myself. And I did. The guys are driving down the road to los vegas, and the scene switches to them inside a stip club with a girl grinding in each of their laps for the entire scene. It was brief, but it was a strip club, and they were getting lap dances, and that FACT should be CLEAR to any observers viewing it imo. It wasn't implied. When I told him, what I saw, hemm hemm, haw haw, he said he told me they were topless girls and they WERE dancing in front of them. As if ON THEIR LAPS is "in front of them". HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT put them in "FRONT OF THEM". I said, you on someone lap is not in front of them, it is "in their lap". One guy has a boob pressing against his face while he watches the other guy with his nose in the crack of the other strippers butt. And he's not calling that a lap dance, nor a strip club, when I know he's been in a few. I've been thinking about this and the words he used "in front of them". Well to an observer the view was two guys getting a lap dance. I can't imagine anyone calling it any less, and I can't imagine any other possible way to describe it.
Yet there he was insisting he told me they were "dancing topless in front of them", and that I see everything as p, and all nudity looks like strip clups, and lap dances, and blah, blah, blah, blah BS! If anyone else has seen this movie what would you call that? How would you describe it? I wanted to judge his perception, and why it different from the critics. I set out to see for myself, and in my opinion, the commentary authors were dead on the money and HIS perception, or communication, is seriously flawed. Thinking about in the way my h "plays a movie" it makes more sense. If one is imagining themselves, or actually participating in getting a lap dance than I could see them saying the girls were dancing "in front of them", but they should also add "while writhing on their laps". And since when did grinding-become dancing? Shaking is not "dancing". They were dry humping, that's what I would call it at best.
So my take is his view is that of a participant, not of an observer like me. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. It makes a lot of other things make sense to, like why he throws all these other people and things that completely irrelevant into our conversations sometimes. They are relevant if you are talking about others, or those things, but they don't have squat to do with him, nor what I'm trying to talk to him about whatsoever. If I were an observer then I could throw in lots of elements that I observe in others, or in general. But when I am speaking as a participant in my REAL relationships, those things are relevant whatsoever. I normally call them diversions, and distractions. I know those type things when I hear or see them. He seems upset that I call it what it is "a lap dance", lol!! "Because he didn't see enough to just automatically call it a strip club or a lap dance at all. He described an entirely different scene than the one I saw in the movie. He claimed he was focused on the background where there was a bar. No there wasn't, there was a stage, with strippers on it, in the background, and a bunch of people standing around. I thought maybe we had watched different versions, like maybe he had an edited one, because what he described didn't happen whatsoever in the movie I watched. But the scene never shows those girls anywhere other than straddled over those guys. I asked him to watch it again, and he refused saying he didn't need too, because he already knew "I" would call it a lap dance in strip club, and "he just didn't see it that way". Well, I think I could show this movie to every other adult I know, including my h, and he say they got a lap dance in a strip club. If anyone else has a different opinion of what they saw, I'd love to hear it. Because I can't think of any other words to describe it other than clearly "getting a lap dance"[/trigger]
It's in the perception of the viewer all right, and these guys that are putting themselves in these p movies and mb as if they are the p man, are putting themselves into fantasyland in general. And totally warping their perceptions about when they are participants, and when they are observers. That where it starts imo. They say they are only watching, and therefore not participating, but that's crap. They are imagining participating, and they are evidently doing so to the point where they can no longer tell when they are observing, and when they are suppose to actually be participating. That's why they describe observing in a totally different way than we do, because they aren't observing like we do at all. This is definately one place where their view is warped and downright backwards imo.
