What p broke in me

[zerotolerance]

I'm getting down to the deep, deep, deep, doo now, and trying to finish naming what p broke in me. The layer I'm working on today is how p broke my core sense of safety leaving me feeling vunerable and alone. So I'm gonna rant about that factor now.

I used to think men cared about women, and they would protect us if necc. All that went right out the window, breaking me at my very core/soul. If a man can use any woman he can use all women. There's no good and bad uses of women. I don't want to be used in the so called good way - as wife and fako partner, any more than I want to be used in the bad way of p wh. It's ALL BAD!!! Using anyone is BAD!!!! There's no good way to use someone. Yet there men are, celebrating the abuse of women. I used to think the USA had a strong military full of strong manly men dedicated to protecting us from external forces. Only to discover the force that was really destroying us, was internal. And those men would use women too, often far worse than any stranger would. They pimp out our daughters, and celebrate that fact with mb as they contribute to the destruction of those girls lives and their souls. That's not protection whatsoever, it's ABUSE. We're left feeling sooo alone in the world when we discover those who vowed to love and honor us, have only been using us, while they also contribute to destroying us. There's no connection between how they treat other women, and how their fellow men treat us. They like to see men sexualizing their OBJECTS. My bros used to beat up boys that said inappropriate things to me. I thought I'd have that same kind of protection from my h. Not beating people up, but at least knowing it was inappropriate. But now men say inappropriate things about women ALL the time, and they laugh, and laugh, and laugh about it. My h is right in the middle of it. I'm far less worried about the taliban, than I am the American man. I know it's not all men again now, but it sure feels like it, more often than not. And I know any sense of safety I've ever had, was merely an illusion all along. But thankfully, I am now under the protection of God's armor. I don't rely on any man for my well being, because they can't even look out for their own well being, but rather they are he!! bent on destroying themselves and taking everyone else down with them. I trust God now, not pheaded men. Rightfully so imo.

[realthing]

totally agree. i've been thinking this for a long time - outwith the issue of p - but i had thought it in relation to sex crimes and pedophilia (appreciated the link between p and this but at time wasn't thinking about p). i just felt exactly the same way i.e., the men that were supposed to be protecting us were the men who we needed protection from.

with regards to p i can't understand how they can make this separation between their wives/daughter/mothers and the demeaning view and treatment of women in p/sex industry. i can't understand for instance my h having 3 beautiful daughters and yet viewing somebody else's daughter in that way. like he's adamant that no way in this world would any of his be in that industry - but why not when your contributing to a world view that it is ok by the very fact of your participation in it. it's really a matter of respect for your fellow human isn't it??? since i've had kids i find it hard to view someone without also seeing the kid in them you know - it generates a bit more tolerance/understanding of people i suppose.

i don't understand either how they can be sexually attracted to women whom they obviously hold such a low opinion of - that is a strange dichotomy???god there is so much i don't understand about it.


conclusion i have reached though is that there is no use depending on them for anything - they r the weaker sex :-)

[zerotolerance]

One of the only elements I can make of it is it's the result of loosing their own souls. They objectify themselves AND us. They are full of these lie compartments, that prevent the natural flow of information in their hearts, and minds, and throughout their systems, whereas for us it's WIDE open, flowing in from ALL our resources, all the time, unless or until we're messed up too. I used to think they only objectified women while seeing men as the REAL ppl, but over the years I've changed that view to where I think my h objectifies himself more than women. Mature adult people take responsibility for themselves, but a p/mb user takes no responsibility whatsoever. My h is responsible in the way where he gets up and goes to work, but that's just one small part of being a responsible person. He's more responsible to his company, than to his family, or than to mankind in general. That's messed up. I think when he goes to work, he is pretending to the "good" object employee. Just like he wants me to be the good object wife. And when he watches p, in his twisted mind, he's the object man, doing the deed to the object woman. When he's p-ng he objectifies himself as a pen!s only basically imo. It doesn't even have to be his pen!s. HE is the pen!s object, he's the one they are using in the movie, not his own, per se. It's all about roles, and role playing, and a switch in the mind to where the mirrors are distorted. They can't see around the lies they believe. But if everyone is merely and object, then it doesn't matter if we abuse them as if it is the equivalent of bouncing a basketball. Emotionalless people don't get it, they don't have heart and soul input anymore. They become lying hypocrites.

I'm with you, I look at every child, and every person, and I see a wounded child. I can't understand how anyone would abuse them more, yet I "suppose" to call it not abuse if it's not in "my" tribe, but abuse when it is. I don't have the tribe mentality, we are all from the same tribe. Everyone is my family. I care about people whether I know them or not. But they don't think in terms of others whatsoever, so thoughts like that never enter their mind. It's not about her being abused in p, it's only about him getting off. She's just a pic, or an image, just another soulless object in his mind, just like he is souless in my mind now. Only I don't take this as an opportunity to use or abuse him. And I don't buy the BS about women do it because they like it and they want too. If a woman likes it and wants to then she is mentally, emotionally, and spiritually retarded, just like I was when I was also under the influence of these man-made lies. To me it's like taking advantage of the handicapped in our society, in soul torturous ways, and calling that ENTERTAINMENT for MEN. That's soo messed up, in soo many ways, it's no wonder we can't wrap our hearts and souls around it. It's insanity, and sane people don't do it. Sane people see all people as the fragile souls we are, and we don't go around encouraging others to sell their souls for others mb fodder entertainment.

Another one that gets me is teachers, male teachers. If a teacher is using p, esp teen p, and teaching HS students, he's a MAJOR threat imo. Their compartments only work for so long, then they collaspe, often in the bad way where in the case of teaches they start sexualizing the students. This crap doesn't stay in the p, it's not private whatsoever. Yet because our h's has the compartments too, and because they THINK they keep it seperate, they imagine that teacher keeping it seperate too. Never mind the fact that you only have to watch the news to know they don't. But they don't think it's any different for that teacher to sexualize those girls, than when they sexualize them too (all except their daughter of course). Beyond a certian point they sexualize their own daughters too though. Even men who don't use them personally, allow them to be used sexually, by using p themselves. They endorse, pepetuate it, and celebrate it. Like in the case of celebrity dads who promote and exploit their daughters sexuallity for money for ex. And they don't think p leads to rape, or whatever, unless they've become rapist themselves and figured it out. Nope, it's all in little lie compartments. But we know! We know it at our cores. We know it is not love. It is not right, and they are ALL wrong. How can they protect us from men like that, when they are men just like that themselves? The connection that belongs, is missing, or mis-firing. They only view it one way, when it is actually a two way street. If it's okay for them to use other women, then why would it not be okay for some other man to also use their women? When they are really messed up, they even suggest such stupidity. They walk around parading their "trophy wives" specifically for other mens viewing pleasure, and they get off on the fact that other men are sexualizing their wives. And sometimes, they want to watch other people do their wives. wth? I SAY it is self induced p use INSANITY. No one is ever gonna convince me that p wasn't a primary factor in my rape, because my mind knows it, my soul knows it, and my body remembers it! It was p induced act all right! No doubt about it!

[weepingwillow]

ZeroTolerance,
I feel you on this. A lot of my despair is being replaced with an extreme anger. Anger that I thought I had escaped so many womyns fate. An anger that I thought I had found my dream man,who actually was righteous in his view of womyn...

My whole life I had a distrust of men,bad things happened to me very early on,and then later on as well.

One thing that enrages me,is they wouldn't want it for someone they love,but they want it for these other womyn. These womyn are mothers,sisters,daughters too.

The other night there was an episode of 'Intervention' on,which I made my h watch. It was a lady who was addicted to heroin and she prostituted to get the money.

At 1st my h was angry,"I never saw a prostitute what does this have to do with me?"
I told him that that's what these womyn in p*rn movies are,they are prostituted once in the movie,and then over and over visually for sick men.
My h admitted to me that he separated these womyn in the movies from womyn in real life,because they were "sluts and they wanted to be there" (I still can't believe my h said this..How can he be this man..and the one I thought I knew?)
Maybe some do think they want to be there,but if so,it's that they have been brain washed into thinking that's all their is for them.
I have seen interviews with these womyn,I have read books..I have seen these shows/documentaries,and I even knew a lady from my childhood who out of drug addiction finally resorted to prostitution,They didn't want to be there. They had no choice,or thought they had none. They had no voice and knew that that was the one thing they could always sell.
These womyn are addicts,they would do anything for their drugs.These womyn are womyn who have been abused all their life and feel as though they have nothing else to offer but their sexuality,as they've seen it's all anyone wants from them. They continue to be abused each time they do these acts.
These womyn are real ppl,they are not some mere object to be used,abused,and then used again.

I am so angry and resentful,that I am with someone who is a secret abuser of womyn,. It doesn't matter if it was visually...
That he lied,that he had everyone fooled...I could rant on this forever.

It makes me sad,angry and sick to think this is all the progress that has been made throughout human history? They went from walking hunched over,pulling us by the hair into a cave,to walking upright..only to be hunched over the computer victimizing us again,only visually.

At 1st..I was angry at God..I thought why did God let this happen to me? I am a good person,I try to live a respectable moral life.
Then a calm came over me,and I realized it wasn't Gods doing. God gave us free will so we can make the right choices,and find our way back to him. P*rn imo is truly evil,it is truly the work of "the devil" and of mans weakness for lust.

I think some of these men can save themselves,if they really see the problem as a whole. It's not just p*rn,it's not just mb. It's how womyn are seen and valued in their minds,how our role in society is placed. They have to place value on every womyn,no mater how "lowly" she might be...or they might not ever win this.

Two books I thought I might mention,if you're feeling mad as hell and don't mind getting madder:

'Against our will' -by Susan Brownmiller
and
'Who Cooked the Last Supper: The Women's History of the World'-by Rosalind Miles

[zerotolerance]

I know, I know. I've been through my stages too, just like you described. This isn't something God made, MAN is doing this, not God. It is a supernatural battle for the our souls just like the Bible says. It's common sense to treat others with dignity and respect. And this is JUST visually at all, those girls are really engaged in whatever act is being dipicted. He may just be watching by she's really getting scre#ed, and so are all the rest of us as a result of it. I've heard that crap about how "she wants to", "some girls like it" blah blah blah BS! Some girls are more brainwashed than the rest of us, that's all! Some girls are just as messed up as all these men are because they are dipping garbage library all the time too. Garbage in, Garbage out. And to sit there and think "they aren't doing", is ridiculous. They are endorsing and engaging in the sin right with the participants. They are providing the money that is perpetuating the abuse. And getting it free doesn't change a dang thing. They are still RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, gleefully celebrating the destruction of thousands of human souls while mb to O. It's like us getting off on concetration camp victims imo. I look at those girls, and I know they are sick. And wth? he didn't use prostitutes. YES HE DID. P IS PROSTITUTION. Using p IS USING PROSTITUTES. And they got to the audicity to act like they think it's not okay to go down the street and get a prostitute, yet they parade them through our houses, through our relationship, through their minds, while they give their sexuality over to them, over and over and over and over. While telling US, it's not a problem. OH IT's a problem all right. They're right IT's not the problem in and of itself. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM, and the problem is that THEMSELVES ARE CHOOSING to LIE to themselves, and trying to forcefeed these lies to EVERYBODY! I'm out of the box now myself, and I know the truth, and I'm not buying the lies anymore. I'm sick to death of them, and think the p ignornant ppl need to get busy getting an education from somewhere besides P.

[ellen38]

I like Rosalind Miles...

My H still maintains that some women enjoy showing their bodies off, that it is a two way street and he is just mearly looking at what is shown to him...(I do not know if his insistance on girls loving it are part of his denial, or his fantasy) He certainly cannot wrap his head around his part in the abuse cycle of woman. I have sided with one angry girl on this, and I have a whole new perspective.

My anger peaks when he agrees not to use (for the moment), but I think still deep down he wants to ensure that there are still broken women out there who will make themselves available for any time he may want it again...

I understand your disillusion. Men (especially our husbands) should want to protect us, and all other women from abuse, not be first hand participants. It's soooo disheartening.

ellen

[milla]

I can really relate to this thread. The fact that I don't see the majority of men as having an innate sense of wanting to protect their women anymore has really had me questionning my heterosexuality lately, even. I do think there are still men like this around, you know, I believe I've run into one the other day, even. He probably still looks at porn, though, and doesn't see the discrepancy.

I think that men have often had this cognitive dissonance where they feel it is okay to watch other women abused, but they don't relate it back to something that would affect the women in their own lives. For many men it seems to be a class issue. *Their* women would never prostitute themselves like that. And women who do get what they have coming to them, etc. It's been going on for years, but I really felt that in '07 men would be a little more enlightened than this.

Most men say these women were asking for it, they want to be looked at, they want to be treated like this, therefore they have no accountability for having simply witnessed it. It is no more enlightened than the middle eastern men who insist that women cover up lest they tempt them. If porn really did look at least like the participants *were* having a blast that might be something, but so much of it looks miserable particularly for the women involved. I think it's supposed to be. I think it would cause acute anxiety if it looked like the women were having too much fun. I was never quite so upset about the visual cheating aspect as I was thinking my SO had watched what I considered the mistreatment of women.

The day I walked out on my SO was the day I realized what a hypocrite he was. As I had offhandedly recounted some of my past sexual indiscretions and he actually pulled some kind of disgusted attitude in my direction. I figured he would. I didn't think he would be able to handle me stating it so matter of factly even though, hey, he was such an englightened guy after all. I thought he should know, though, how I thought about things and that maybe, after all, there wasn't such a huge dividing line between me and other women. The gall.....of the man who had told me his porn use was just watching the ladies enjoy their open sexuality ( I knew that was bull(expletive) at the time) and yet he couldn't handle it if a women were to do that not for pay, not for a man, but perhaps for herself. It really speaks volumes to the hypocrisy of these men nowdays. I had almost no sex life to speak of with my SO, so he was in other words controlling the pleasure aspect of my life whilst watching other men control other women's sexuality. It all fit. I realized I would never have freedom with such a man - spiritually, emotionally, sexually and that trumped any feelings I had for him.

I also realized what a conservative old codger he was, at his age even. So there they are, disgusted by these women yet wanking off to it nonetheless. I don't think he really cares, social issues are too much trouble to him and he prefers ease. And as long as life is easy enough why should he think more about it and that's all it boiled down to for him. However he did expect me to treat *him* like a person and got notoriously upset when I blew him off like he blew me off. After a while I enjoyed doing the latter since I no longer needed to care just like he never had. I suppose he figured I would just care, because as a woman that's my good nature. Well, no. Honestly, I think it 's just going to be up to women to ignore these men until they create something better within themselves that is worth the time.

I am disgusted for him too when I think of how the women in his family have cared for him and how he behaves in the dark. I am sure they would love to know what their beloved brother and son gets up to when they aren't looking. The way he really cares. I think he believes they would overlook it as a guy thing. Perhaps they would, that is what many women often *say*, but in their hearts they feel a different way about it. They write that particular man off on some level. He never again appears for them the way that he used to. And I think if they knew the *types* of things he watched they would not be able to shrug it off so easily. [trigger]There is a difference between thinking your brother watches naked women and knowing he watches incest-porn.[/trigger]

I wondered whether he cared whether the women in life truly liked/loved him or not and I think the answer is...not really. He cares about getting his needs met and being comfortable; safeguarding his image in order to continue to accrue mostly material benefits and sexual ones if those come his way.

I think at this point in time most men are simply taking advantage of the socio-politics of the time. Women making themselves very sexually available while demanding less than they used to. It has always been a problem throughout time for men to stand responsibly with their women, but the difference is there was more social pressure in the past than there is now among men themselves. It used to be that often times a man had to prove something before he was able to sleep with a woman and now there is little need of that. Women still desire male protection, for the most part, but it's considered a bit retro and they tend to not demand it for fear of losing him. I think that women still count on men in this respect and still think that men *are* to be counted on in this respect. The more women see that men have deserted them on this account the less they will care about pleasing their men and the less allowances they will give to them. It has always been in men's own best interests to at least pay some type of lip service to giving women the impression at least that they are looked after by their men. When women begin to get disgruntled is when the social system gets shaken up.

When I realized my SO had no more protective instincts towards me than any stranger I left him. And ever since then I have just felt entirely different towards the men around me. I have little to no need of them now and I know it. I have no respect for them or their system of doing things. I have economic power. If you take a lot of females like that, you start to have disruption. In truth, the more women who feel that way the more will subvert the situation as it stands. And that's the only way change happens.

The more that the sex industry is allowed to disrupt relationships and marriages the more single unruly people you will have. Governments don't like that. Interestingly a lot of books came out in recent memory blaming 'girls gone wild' (female chauvinist pigs) typically instead of boys. So there is a certain anxiety/backlash to get women back to being "nice girls" while the boys still get to have their porn, strip clubs, whathaveyou. Abstinence education came back. They're fostering purity balls these days. All this stuff to get women to behave like ladies again (some women), because they thyink it's easier to get the ladies to act nice than it is to get the males to give up their sex stuff. Do they really think it's going to work like that? You're not ever going to be able, now, to convince women en masse to go back to being good little wives now that there is nothing really to go back to. At some point something will give. How did you feel when you discovered your SO was just a pornhound? I know I felt like he was a big joke. I lost respect for him. I ignored any authority he might have had previously. I stopped playing nice, I stopped tolerating things I had tolerated before. I became, in other words, a different person. I became the one in charge. And then I walked out. I'm not the only woman I've seen do this. It's become more society wide. I've watched at least one woman go from totally meek and dependent to bossing her lousy SA husband around. Sex/Porn addiction emasculates men, not only because it drains their energy and time, but because they lose the respect of the women they depend on. Very few men have caught onto this yet so it will be quite a few years I think before there is any sort of backlash among men themselves. Either men will be living with their porn, alone. Or they will be living with women without their porn. I know that most women aren't going to have a lifestyle that integrates porn into it more than a little bit.

[zerotolerance]

Yeah, that Rabbi Shumley site has a good article about why women are leaving men. It's just like you said. Count me amoung the masses too. Other satistic show women are seeking treatment for depression in droves, and having female problems-hormones, and tumors, and we're just a sick lot aren't we? I've been working on getting myself healthy. That's really one of the best things we can do. When we're run down, our minds don't function as well. This stress affects everything.

It USED to be we could be relatively sure the women in p posed voluntarily and were over 21, or 18. But you can't tell squat about what the circumstances of most of these girsl are. If there are SOOO Many volunteers, then why are there hundreds of thousands of women & children being kidnapped for sex industry work every year? Why are we finding em tied up in ppls basements, and in barns or whatever? Why are they targeting the youngest and most vunerable amoung us the most, etc...... Obviously they don't all volunteer for it, and you can't tell by looking at it, what's what. Who you gonna believe? The disclaimer of a pnographer? PLEASE, they are known LIARS. And there's a difference between "informed consent", which is the only real consent at all, and societal and male encouragment, and manpipulations. A lot of "volunteers" are COERCED, and that's not voluntary. Men still watch DT the 70's movie, and it's sold sold, and used, even though the actress later claimed they had a gun to her head during the filming of it. wth? We know it's rape p, and they still sell it anyway. Same with the internet stuff. You can't tell. It's all exploitaion anyway. There's not safe type, nor amount, nor core, nor genre. P is p. We don't have no business sitting around looking at other people naked, nor doing it. It's a perversion that hurts us all. And I'll never the "my tribe" mentality, or the how they seperate "real" girls from "fake" ones. Actually, I think I get it all right. It says they are MESSED UP when they are like that. It says we are ALL objectified into different ROLES, and that they objectify themselves, and view life as if it's a movie or something like that. All we really need to understand is that it is messed up, it's not right, it's not loving, it's not following the golden rule, and it's not excusable behavrior. Certianly not to the extent they have taken to having hourly/daily/weekly/monthly/annual, diets of it. They are mature enough to handle the p per se. lol! It stunts their growth, and causes them to start going backwards imo. It's an effect, it's internal, and it's cummulative, and progressive.

I know now where our protection comes from, it comes from God. When we embrace God's protection, then the pain of the fact that it no longer feels like we have men's protection is eased. Compared to God's protection, men's protection isn't squat. We don't really think we "need" it anymore. But it would sure feel nice to think and know we had it for the earthly hazzards. I've never felt safe around my h, in any way, shape, or form. For all his manly man persona, and image, he's a big baby. I've always know if someone was breaking into the house, he'd be the one cowering behind ME. wt heck? It's an element of the "mommy thing". Rather than see himself as my protector, he sees me as the parent whose suppose to protect him. Humm, I think that's the first time that I put those two thoughts together. Interesting.

I don't have the compartment that allows me to lie to myself in such away as to make it ever okay to use anybody, p or otherwise. And even if I did, or when I have in the past, I know the difference, and that it was wrong. The very idea they they defend such wrongness is what is mind blowing, and actually try to tell us it's harmless. Are they blind? Are they deaf? Dumb? what? D: All of the above? lol!!! Sorry guys but I wonder sometimes. It's soo bizarre to me. It's lying, cheating, and stealing, and since when is that right? It's not right, it never was and never will be. I don't care what kind of packaging they wrap it up in!

[milla]

We don't really think we "need" it anymore. But it would sure feel nice to think and know we had it for the earthly hazzards. I've never felt safe around my h, in any way, shape, or form. For all his manly man persona, and image, he's a big baby. I've always know if someone was breaking into the house, he'd be the one cowering behind ME. wt heck? It's an element of the "mommy thing". Rather than see himself as my protector, he sees me as the parent whose suppose to protect him. Humm, I think that's the first time that I put those two thoughts together. Interesting.

Interesting indeed. And probably true. It sounds like you've been through a lot with your SO. He sounds a lot like mine who simply changed his MO to whatever worked best for him in his manipulative attempts. I think he just wanted to see if I'd dance around trying to please him and so forth and when I finally gave up I think he was only upset that he had "lost" it. He felt a sense of power like that, feeling he was like other men who have control over their women, not someone who would be controlled himself. They justify a lot by simply claiming themselves as the victims and projecting onto us that we are trying to control them or some other version of feminine evil. I know my SO was aware that he was twice my size and vaguely aware that society at large would have expected him to behave in certain ways due to this and that just annoyed him cause it meant he might have to *concede* what to him was an advantage. So he just looked for ways around it, by claiming victimhood, by riling me up enough to make me seem like some mean, angry out of control woman that he'd have to control through whatever means necessary, etc.

I did figure I didn't have his protection in outside circumstances, but nothing ever happened to prove or disprove this theory so I'll never know. Well, there was a time I had become upset at a guy who I thought was taking indiscreet photos of me at a public beach so I confronted the SO, who probably should have confronted the man and demanded and explanation, but he just blinked at me. When I went back to confront the man himself he was already gone anyway. It did occur to me at the time that my SO didn't see it as a _problem_ and that was a problem for me. That's really the crux of the issue too, is that they see unwanted attention as something that is desireable to women. So how can they be protective when they don't know what they are supposed to protect you against? I personally came to the conclusion that my SO feared other men therefore subconsciously it was a lot more reassuring for him to think that other men predated women not him, for example. I think that a lot of men do unconsciously allow women to take the brunt of male brutality that they know would otherwise be directed at them. That's why a lot of them are afraid to take a stand at times when they really should. It takes a really together man to stand apart from the group of males.

So, this has been the hardest part to deal with, but I've just taken to acquiring a group of female friends, because in the end I think they're the ones who are going to be there. I think the time has passed when women could count on men the way they used to. You'd think they'd be able to in the most basic sense, but I don't think that's true anymore at all. Most males have a bigger fear of other males than I ever thought and as society gets more and more aggressive I sense this more and more from men themselves - they're really going to run for cover themselves not stand up for their women in more cases than you'd ever assume.

The day that my mother realized my father couldn't even be counted on in this most basic sense her voice sounded so empty and forlorn and I think that the life drained out of her and the world just fell away. Even to this day it isn't the other women she couldn't get over it was the things he did that compromised her safety that she can't get over. (Not physical abuse). It's really a very devastating moment for a lot of women who were raised to believe fundamentally that the majority of husbands in the western world will strive to protect them physically from other men. And these days I just find it to be less and less true. In fact, it's something I'd like to see more and more discussion of in mainstream media, but they are noticeably silent about it.