Married But No Sex

[smara]

I have been married for last 15 years; have three wonderful kids and are living a normal family life except for no sexual relationship between me and my wife. I am 38 and she is 40. After a few years of marriage my wife's sex drive started to decrease and about 5 years ago it was down to once a month only. I have had countless discussions with her on the topic but she is just off sex now completely. I could only find solace in porn and masturbation as a result. Now I am at a stage that the first thing I want to do when I wake up is to watch porn and masturbate. It is humiliating, depressing and frustrating. I love my wife and want to spend time with her but she is "distant" Too occupied in her work, kids and households. I have tried everything like going away on holidays, buy her expensive gifts, contribute in the households and kids (That's a matter of routine anyway) talking to her, telling her about my porn addiction even telling her that I might be inclined to get involved in adultery but she is not really bothered. I don't want to leave my family for the sake of my appetite for sex but I don't know what else to do to satisfy a perfectly human want.

[dazednconfused]

your wife is not the reason for your porn addiction. Facing that reality will help you loads with your recovery.
As for the relating to your wife, if you do not "feed" her needs for emotional, intellectual and spiritual intimacy (something any addiction makes you rather incapable of) she will not be open to being sexually vunerable with you. Have you really looked at WHY your wife is distant? Could the kids, work, etc.. be coping mechanisms to fill needs you are not fulfilling? Needs for appreciation, love, understanding, compassion, intimacy, acceptance, and a feeling of being valued? Nothing says "your worthless" to your wife like looking at other people for sexual gratification- maybe she doesn't bat an eye at you "getting involved in adultery" because in her eyes, you already are.
It sounds like you are doing many helpful things, but it also sounds like you are blaming her for your addiction. This is not a "bedroom" problem. It is an intimacy problem.
Have you thought of marriage counseling? How about addiction counseling?

Looking into recovery and sobriety plans would go a long way to helping you both.

[breakingfree]

Smara,

You weren't EVER using P BEFORE ?

After a few years of marriage my wife's sex drive started to decrease and about 5 years ago it was down to once a month only. I have had countless discussions with her on the topic but she is just off sex now completely. I could only find solace in p*** and masturbation as a result.

BF

[nina]

smara said:

I have been married for last 15 years; have three wonderful kids and are living a normal family life except for no sexual relationship between me and my wife. I am 38 and she is 40. After a few years of marriage my wife's sex drive started to decrease and about 5 years ago it was down to once a month only.

hello smara. you stated that after a 'few years' of marriage/5 years ago your wife's libido began to decrease. have you asked her/discussed with her why this has been the case? if you haven't or if you have and she did not give you a direct answer, perhaps the reason for this decline in her sexual desire is due to the fact that taking care of a husband, raising three children and keeping up a house is an arduous undertaking that just so happens to drain her libido to the point of no longer being interested in having sex. perhaps she's too tired or stressed by the end of the day to even contemplate it.

it's also a possibility that this is just the way that she is now - and you're going to have to either accept it or you'll have to discuss with her how you should deal with it. in any case, I wish you luck with this and hope that you and your wife can come to some sort of middle ground with regard to your situation. but, just to put the word out to ya...the decrease in your wife's sex drive is absolutely NO EXCUSE for you to use pornography. it's good that you're posting here to look for answers - doing this is the first step into possibly developing a recovery plan.

[truthorlie]

You stated that your wife's sex drive went down a few years into the marriage. Well, I will tell you that this is when she started to feel the ramifications of your porn use and sexuallizing other women. Don't sit here on this board and tell us that you weren't using porn when you got married and I believe that you DID hide it from your wife. Perhaps your porn use increased several years into the marriage - I don't know, but I suspect the more you knew you could get away with, the more porn use you participated in. Well, you can keep your porn use a secret to others by not telling them you are doing it and hiding the evidence. BUT THE ONE THING YOU CANNOT DO, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIE OR HIDE, IS THAT YOUR SO WILL PICK UP ON IT BECAUSE SHE IS IN AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU, even though you are NOT in the intimate relationship. The porn user becomes the one-dimensional picture of a human being and there is no longer any depth to you any more than there is depth to a pic of a naked woman in a mag or on the computer. No depth to you at all while you are sexuallizing women. Funny, huh? Cause to YOU, getting those "hits" while sexuallizing, makes you feel fuller and not one-dimensional at all. But to us (your SO, your friends, your family) it doesn't feel/look that way at all. You emit a great void radiating from yourself that nearly bowls people over with its force. And I can tell you that your wife does NOT want to be intimate with that!

[DennisW]

Smara,

I can relate. I am in the same situation now. We also have been married fifteen years. We also have three wonderful kids. My wife also is a homemaker, she also homeschools our kids. Her libido dropped off right before we tried to get pregnant for our first child. I also turned to porn and masturbation, often blaming it on her and her coldness in the bedroom.

We also have had numerous dicussions on the topic. We have tried marriage counseling. We have tried individual counseling. I have tried a variety of "repair" tactics as well, weekends away, flowers, notes, compliments, gifts, help around the house, time together, etc. None of this has worked.

What I have been learning through this support board is that my attitude is the problem. I have discovered that I am often angry at home. I yell a lot. I over react a lot. This has had a profound effect on my wife's emotional connectedness to me. Without emotional connection, there is no intimacy and therefore, no bedroom adventures.

Step one: get free and remain free of porn and masturbation
Step two: No more yelling, increased compassion towards my wife
Step three: I haven't arrived there yet.

Keep in touch

[smara]

Well thanks Dennis for the support I am amazed how some of the female participants of this site have reacted. I do not want to turn this discussion into a marriage couselling debate but the fact of the matter is that if you have a problem you want to get rid of it if you are sensible and responsible. I had no love for porn about 5 years ago and certainly not before my marriage as some are accusing me.
I have had some wonderful years of marriage and to this day everything is fine except for this sex thing and I could feel it gradually become less and less frequent over the years.
Its not my porn addiction that drove my wife away it was rather other way around. Why is it not possible that despite a man's love and affection some women cannot comprehend needs of a man. Be it so the positive attitude would be to turn to some constructive activities instead tunring to porn and thats what everybody here is trying to do.

[cindyandben]

I have found that even when exhausted, drained and weary from mothering, there are ways to BE WITH my husband sexually. If my husband has wanted to relieve sexual tension, there are at least a couple of ways that I could participate without having to wake up very much, and certainly without becoming ready myself for the (usually pleasant)rigors of marital relations. In the case of your wife, her hands, her usually non-sexual body parts, her simple approving presence, are all ways for her to be part of your release of sexual tension. If she does not herself have issues of discomfort about sexuality in general (perhaps stemming from negative childhood experiences), then these alternatives may be acceptable to her.

Let me point out however from my own experience, that when the problem is not actually unfulfilled sexual desire, but the urge to get a chemical fix from masturbation or pornography, even the availability of these alternatives will not fit the bill, because they are shared, participatory, dyadic activities that can support intimacy, whereas masturbation is solitary, secretive, exclusionary, and selfish, usually.

I wish you the best - it is good that you are reflecting on this, before doing anything that could destroy your marriage completely and endanger you as well.

[sawyer]

Smara,

I too had similar reactions from spouses when I had my first post or two about my marriage. My I suggest you stick to the "Addicts forum", "Journals forum" and "Accountability circles" for a while. Until you have some sobriety under your belt it is hard not to be offended by a spouses reaction, no matter how well intentioned it may be.

I too had the same problem, but as I walk further into sobriety and my behavior changes, love-making is a fruit of my labors. As my counselor put it, sex is the fruit of intimacy. Intimacy as in quality time in interests together, positive reinforcement from both sides, and selfless-acts. Non of which an addict wishes to do, or if believed to be done - is doing it properly. Trust me, as an addict you are one selfish SOB and have no clue.

I used to complain of this fog I had, even after 2-3 weeks of sobriety I complained that I *thought* I was seeing things in my marriage that were "not good" but I couldn't tell - was I over reacting, were they real problems, etc. As sobriety happened and an internal change started to progress you see what exactly you need to address in the marriage and how far off you were.

As sobriety progresses you will see a huge internal change in your thinking, in your actions, and in your view of your marriage and family. Things you just can't see now. It's those changes your wife will respond to, and it will be VERY slowly so don't go into that "whoa is me, I'm working hard for 3 days and she isn't responding to me B.S.".

Start looking into counseling with your insurance company, take a look at the SA website (www.SA.com), read "Out of the Shadows of the Net" by Patrick Carnes, and start putting a plan in place.

Once you walk forward you will see what to do in your marriage next.

Sincerely,
Sawyer

[LookingUp]

smara said:

I had no love for porn about 5 years ago and certainly not before my marriage as some are accusing me.

I think SOs are projecting because of what they've been through in their marriages - I think "accusing" is a bit strong.

Although you said you had no love for porn - that skirts the question that was asked of if you viewed it back then. You could have viewed it but not loved it...

I have had some wonderful years of marriage and to this day everything is fine except for this sex thing and I could feel it gradually become less and less frequent over the years.

My husband and I are doing the Gary Smalley videos "Keys to a Loving Relationship" and he says men are fixers, but women have built-in marriage manuals. Can your wife discuss why her libido fell? What she thinks might help her libido increase? If you ask her on a scale of 1 to 10 what she'd like the marraige to be - what would that be? Where does she think it is on the 1-10 scale now? What would it take to get to the highest number? Smalley says men normally estimate 3 to 4 points lower then the wife - because the wife is more in tune with the marital dynamics where men tend to think "if it ain't broke - don't fix it." My husband figured we were a strong 7 and I thought a 3 was a bit high!

Smalley then had about 25 questions for the husband to ask the wife and wait quietly to hear her reply - questions that would help him probe her marriage manual - to help him see the condition of the marriage from the built-in-marriage-manual-expert. Then his expertise could come into play and he could help find a plan so they could fix the major issues.

Its not my porn addiction that drove my wife away it was rather other way around.

Although I can somewhat understand this- why did you put the energy into getting your sexual release from porn rather than working on your relationship so your wife would want to have sex with you? Seems, in my opinion, you may have taken the easy and selfish way out. Most women are quite willing to work on the marriage if the husband is willing to do half the work and he works with her to find all the problems and both work to fix them and develop the marriage into what they envisioned when they married.

Why is it not possible that despite a man's love and affection some women cannot comprehend needs of a man.

She may feel you do not begin to comprehend her needs, either. Often when a wife has spoken her needs over and over and had them discounted or ignored, she goes into her shell which is the only thing we can do to protect our heart (so we can stay in the relationship). Thus we detach - and when we detach our libido quickly falls. I'm not saying that is what happened in your marriage - but I've seen that happen often.

What books are you reading to grow your marriage? What have you read or learned about gender communication - often a key to revamping an ailing marriage? What is your marriage recovery plan? Are you taking seminars or courses to develop a healthier marriage so both of your needs will be met more fully? What does she feel needs to be fixed? What are her complaints? How much does she feel heard, validated and supported? Do you speak in her love language? www.fivelovelanguages.com/ Does she know your love language? Do you practice Love and Respect? www.loveandrespect.com - go to "learn" (it's a bit strange to navigate)

I don't know what else to do to satisfy a perfectly human want.

Note: you mention it is a "want" not a "need." Yes, it would be nice if our mate wanted to meet our sexual needs - but many of the people here do not have that option. My husband is willing about once or, if I'm lucky, twice a year - I've learned to live a celibate life (no mb and seldom sex) and not let his unilateral choices bother me unduly. I was accustomed and enjoyed sex 4 or more times a week in my last marriage of 20 years, so it was quite an adaptation to find happiness in this 9-year almost sexless marriage. It is difficult to adapt, but it is possible; that sexual energy can be used for creative, intellectual and spiritual pursuits. I know many of the SA/PAs wives here no longer will have sex and many of the men maintain celibacy and find a harmonious marriage. Yep, that's sure lowering the expectations from when we said "I do" - but it's do-able.

LookingUp

[breakingfree]

Smara,

Let me apologize. I didn't even welcome you to the board before challenging one of your statements.

Welcome to the board. Please come here often to read, question ,post,vent. Start a journal. Start a recovery plan. Use this board as a foundation for your active recovery plan.

This a board for SA's. NO BS, no half truths. As you have found out other PA's and SO' will react strongly to what you say. SA's on this board will call you if they think you are wrong (doesn't mean you ARE wrong) We all get challenged and challenge each other on issues. It keeps us all honest with ourselves and each other.

One final challenge

Its not my p*** addiction that drove my wife away it was rather other way around

No one is DRIVEN TO ANY ADDICTION BY ANYTHING. IT IS AN ADDICTION, IT IS A DISEASE. IT HAPPENS. YOU CANNOT BE DRIVEN TO ADDICTION.

Forget for a moment we are talking about P addiction. If this was an AA board and you posted, "My wife drove me to drink and and I became an alcoholic", what kind of response would you expect?

Thanks for joining us on the walk of recovery.

bf

[MrOuch]

I don't want to leave my family for the sake of my appetite for sex but I don't know what else to do to satisfy a perfectly human want.

What kind of wacky logic is that?! You put your sex drive ahead of your wife and family? Maybe you should leave them, if they rate #2. Absolutely no facts to go on here, but I have a feeling that the decrease in your wife's sex drive may be directly proportional to your increase in p and mb. How do those time frames compare? Just curious.

MrOuch

[amaninfull]

May I suggest you stick to the "Addicts forum", "Journals forum" and "Accountability circles" for a while.

Sawyer speaks wisely. Your situation is unique (as indeed are each of ours) and deserves a thoughtful discussion. That's unlikely to happen on the General Board, as you've already seen.

By way of reply to your first post, here are my thoughts: you already know that you are addicted to porn, and that porn is no substitute for marital sex. You want to change your situation. This is understandable and laudable. You will need to address both of these issues - your porn addiction, and the (apparent) difference in sexual needs between you and your wife.

Regarding the first: you must quit using porn, by whatever means necessary. Regarding the second, my strong recommendation is to enter counseling with your wife, as it seems clear that you have been unable to work out a satisfactory solution with your apparently sincere attempts at one-to-one communication.

Best of luck,
AMIF

[chasmjumper]

That's it. I'm not getting married.

[tiger1m]

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