I need help interpreting this?????????

[hugs4u002]

He once whispered that he was a sex addict and then as never mentioned it again and is very defensive when the word addiction comes up. His recovery seems to be on his terms which up until now only includes white knuckle periods. He has said things recently such as "it is such an empty persuit" and "it is a waste of his time" but I don't feel he has ever understood the hurt and pain it inflicts on the level of infidelity, he does not see it as cheating, he has always referred to it as stricktly fantasy.
I am starting to think I understand it better at this point than he does and since we can't have a civil conversation about it and I can't "look" to see if he is engaging, I find the situation quite hopeless. On a side note, I don't feel as compelled to look anymore either because I can recognize his pulling away and avoidance of me when he is actively engaged. I used to be confused by this behavior and the lack of sex, but now I know they are a sign, he is not even aware of that aspect of this addiction yet! Thanks for all your input today. I actually feel better when I can talk about it openly without being yelled at, even if it is to a stranger.

[hugs4u002]

It really helps being able to talk to the folks on this board and getting input on this situation.......the way it has played out between us over the last 4 years is that I am being blamed for where we have ended up. Because I don't shut up and put up with the behavior. Because I did for so long not knowing the true cause of our sexual discord. That is what has made me so furious, that when I questioned him, he lied. If he had told me the truth from the beginning, I could have made an informed decision based on facts, not the bull(expletive) I was told....and even after the first discovery last christmas (which destroyed my holidays) I have been lied to even more and each time I gobbled up the lies thinking, he is making progress, he is seeing the light, things are going to change now..........god when I write it down I think "how stupid are you?" "how many times are you going to believe the same lies?" And now he is at a very difficult time in his life, he has lost his job, he has lost friends, he has lost me and he has made mention of suicide twice in one week which scares the hell out of me, I have never heard him talk this way before........I don't know what to do.
I was a very loving, kind, giving person and I have changed, there is no doubt about that. he wants the old me back. But I don't know if the old me is in here, I have changed. I don't trust him anymore, I don't see him the same way, I don't love him the same way, I don't have hope for a happy ending

[MrOuch]

hugs,

I vaguely remembered some of your first posts here, so I went back and re-read them. As I recall, your bf was sending nude pictures of himself to someone he was hoping to "hook up" with scant hours after you two were together. You two had had a previous D-day experience in which you found out about his PA and MB habits (almost daily). At first he seemed not too interested in getting back together. Now he's telling you in a lengthy e-mail that he's not comfortable with some of your issues (criticizing him and checking up on him, etc.) and if you want to get back together with him, you're going to have to change. He expects you to honor some sort of imaginary commitment to him (even though he didn't honor this imaginary commitment to you).

Here's my 2¢. WTF!!!! There's no lengthy jury deliberation needed for me. Just move along. From what I read, and from my biased viewpoint, I don't see anything here that's worth sticking around for. He was caught red-handed. He has no bargaining leverage. And yet he's attempting to dictate the terms on which to rebuild your relationship? He's telling you about the problems you need to work on, even though he's defensive and argumentative about his pa. He wants the old you back.

Does that mean the you before you discovered all the p and mb? Now his life sucks and he's surly and depressed. Where's the contrite bf? Where's the bf showing you concrete, measurable changes that he's made in the last few months. All I see is words, words, words and more words. Anybody can write and say words. Where are the actions. Has he been to any SA meetings? Seen a counselor? Talked to a friend or clergyman? Read anything at all on PA? C'mon. This guy seems so self-focused that he can't see past his own reflection.

It's time to let go.

MrOuch

[Mayberry]

Amen.

[Healing Rain]

Hugs, Please please please do not take on the responsibility of his issues. He would like you to do that, its much easier for them if someone else carries the weight, than themselves. Nothing you have done will ever warrant his behavior. You deserve so much more than what he is giving you. I promise. Don't take this on your shoulders, it is not yours to bare.


I am in agreement with Mayberry and MrOuch on this one.

His emails are basically telling you that you must completely change in order for him to be with you. He doesn't address his issues.. he points his finger at you and claims that his issues are because of you.

Things are happening here so I had better try and be brief for a change in my email to you. Thank you for taking the time to write that. I read the inserts from postings. I agree probably with everything said. When I finished I felt as if 95% or more of the content was again directed at me and my problem. I have felt for a very long time and said as much that the entirety of your focus in my opinion was too much upon me and my faults and weaknesses and this allowed the distraction of not truly recognizing your own and focusing on them. My email last night was an attempt to show you. I am not pointing fingers nor judging, and I don't believe you are from what i read either. I will say them again, so that perhaps you hear me, understand me, agree or disagree, and in the end decide what if anything you intend to do in addressing the weaknesses in you, and that faults that are important to me. Outside of a sentence or two occasionally, I do not feel you have recognized them fully, nor as yet, taken those steps to eliminate them from your life, and hence mine. Sorry if this is negative, it just seems they got glazed over.

Wow... What a way to start out a conversation... or to finish one. First he lets you know that you are an unwanted intrusion into his day. And follows up that lovely statement by basically saying, enough about what I've done, lets talk about how you are not enough for me the way you are, your weak and those weaknesses shine a light onto my own. Since I am an addict in denial, I must then point my finger directly at yours shining a brighter light. (and yes, I do completely see the irony in him saying he isn't pointing fingers when that is exactly what he is doing to you)

I read your recognition and admission for the invasions of my privacy. What steps will you take so that too doesn't happen in the future?

He is setting up the foundation for giving you an ultimatum here. He sees your issues as greater than his own, and independent of his issues, and wants them dealt with on his terms and his time table.

When you feel hurt, the essence of you as I know you, somehow gets cast aside, and a buried portion of you comes out and it is very ugly. My belief is arguing can even in complete anger, rage is another thing which is never good, those things said should be limited to the problem at hand. Too many times you have failed this and reduced yourself and me to name calling. It has gone beyond name calling as well to the depths of direct hurtful insults. I want no part of that. It is my belief like most things where a chink in the armor exists or crack in the damn, one done, easier and easier to do the next times. Maybe you have fought with others like this in the past. I have not. I recall a single time reducing myself to this level, and I recall doing it solely to have you know what it feels like. I wont be doing it again.

Even more hateful stuff here. "I don't like how you fight. I don't like how you point out what I've done, in any form.. whether it be supportive conversation, insulting in nature, or even if its coming from the deep pain I have caused you" basically, he is saying that he really doesn't care what has caused you to act out in anger, he only cares that once again you have "hurt" him and he is finding you weak in this.

Your last result to the solution of our problem, as you have said in the past is to take flight verus fight. Ok. Again, i accept it if this is the way you are, but I do not want a woman in my life that chooses that path too easily as I feel you have been doing. Again, you recogonized it, and are trying to understand it, agreed with it and now is simply the questions of what you want to do... not for me, but for you, about it?

He is saying that he will not accept this about you. And continuing to set up the foundation for his ultimatum.

I am starting to notice you have a very subtle form of control issue. You have attempted to control my behaviors by exposing them and whether positively or negatively had me change them to what you want me to be. I totally understand and share the same vision and hope.

Its time for you to shift your focus and energies away from my weaknesses and faults, and channel them on your own. I dont know if you see that, but I do.

Pot calling the kettle.... This is a direct insult at you. He is saying that because you have expressed a desire to change the dynamic of your relationship... you therefore have control issues. Yet, in your email to him you are more than willing to take on all issues as your own, to accept blame.. He is hypocritical. He has the issue with control. He is trying to manipulate you and control you and your responses to him. Don't let him.

Sorry I failed to make this brief. I did not wish to let this opportunity slip by and pretend that if I do my part, we will be fine. We wont be, because as you can see, I too have problems...and those problems are with your weaknesses. So we can talk about these things, my wish is that it is far more infrequent so we are not introducing negative reinforcement with each other daily, weekly or however frequently we have been. I know this is not what you want to hear... but I dont want to get back together if the things i mentioned above to you are not serious enough flaws to you, that you dont attack them much the same way as i dont want to get back together with you if I am not wanting to or willing to change the ones in me. But I do want to get back together, and I want to do it right. Please dont respond to this. Not that I want to have the last word, but everything has been said now. We each know what we have to do. If you like, you can just respond back with whether you agree or disagree. Thats all i need to know.

The ultimatum.

He will not have you if you won't change. He will not have you if you continue to bring the issues up. He will not have you if you continue to show your self as weak in his eyes. He believes he has the right, the entitlement, to steer the relationship in any direction he so desires... and you along with it. He is stating here that he is in the drivers seat, and in order for you to sit next to him as a passenger of the relationship, you must change.

and in conclusion...

So i end on a positive note...I have never loved a woman in the way I love you. The purity and goodness of that love was exactly what I would have hoped it to be. It is because of that love and that I recogonize how special it is to me, that I am here now.

He is not ending on a positive note. He is ending with guilt. He is trying to guilt you by stating his pure love. Its BS. If his love was pure, there wouldn't be an issue of sexual fidelity to begin with.... nor with the negative way in which he is shining light on your flaws. Love does not dictate. Nor does it insult. It supports. When you recognize issues in the one you love, you bring them out onto the table in a loving manner. He is not doing this, he is screaming "how dare you say one thing about me when you are so weak and flawed!" Love, relationships are give and take. You learn from each other. You build each other up. You listen and respond to each other, and you try to do so as kindly as you possibly can. I don't see kind here, I see hate. And alot of it.

Now, some might say its the hate of himself shining through.... but I believe its exactly the opposite. I'm leaning here towards Narcissistic behavior. It is quite possible you are dealing with someone that loves them self so much, that there isn't room for loving another.

Hugs, I know this is hard for you. But sometimes leaving is the ultimate act of love. The lessons he needs to learn in life, aren't going to come from you... he must learn them on his own. Do you want to be dragged along, repeating this same pain, as he learns his life lessons of love? Will you look back years from now, after receiving another email pointing out your flaws? Its a possibility that you must consider. Or is the possibility that someone else might be just around the corner who would conduct them self in love much in the way you have hoped for your whole life? Because your beliefs on relationships and marriage, aren't wrong. They are actually very very good values to base one's life on. Finding a partner that shares those beliefs is alot easier than forcing another's beliefs to change, and waiting around with the false hope that it will happen soon. Because it doesn't, it take time and lots of time to readjust life values.

So maybe the ultimate act of love is to love your self, to respect your self, enough to leave this toxicity behind.

~Rain~

[hugs4u002]

Thank you so much, everyone for pointing out the obvious to me, I feel like I am loosing my mind. I never 'invaded' his privacy in 3 years even though I thought something was goofy and the first incidence was because he left his email open on his computer and he had asked me to put music on aol so when I went to the computer I saw there was an email on the desktop from a woman I didn't know...we had a big blow-up about it and he swore he wasn't looking for anyone and he loved me and it was all just fantasy. I can't explain how much that messed with my mind to find that email, all of a sudden everything fit. His odd behavior, his lack of interest in sex, his inconsistency on the phone and in my life. I just never had any experience with this kind of thing (my former relationship of 7 years was in retrospect perfect in regards to sex, no porn, alot of mutual desire and pleasure and fidelity)
The thing is, I am a logical person and I understand that my fighting with him and leaving him are a big problem, however, I feel I have real reason to feel the way I do!!! I know if you love someone you need to work with them when times are hard (or in his case not so hard, sorry couldn't resist) and that is part of a relationship. Well when he comes back at me with this kind of stuff I don't know what to think, he is so damn inconsistent. One day he loves me and we will work through this, the next day he does not want me. Mayberry, CV, Healing Rain, Mr. Ouch, all of you thank you for taking the time to help me to see the obvious.......I DESERVE BETTER, HE IS SELF CENTERED AND NARCISSITIC AND MESSED UP IN THE HEAD AND HIS CRAZINESS IS MAKING ME CRAZY. I listen to what he says like he knows better than I do what one needs in a relationship, HELLO, he is the one that messed it up in the first place, why would I listen to any advice he has?? I am kind, loyal, loving, beautiful inside and out and if he can't see that...too damn bad. There are plenty of men out there that can. HAPPY HOLIDAYS BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE

[mo4wo1]

I know it's late, here, but I just wanted to honor you name

((((((hugs)))))

And tell you I'm just another who agree with what you figured out already.

You're better off!

Best wishes,
Mo

[ethanm]

He seems more wrapped up in-

A) Your faults (So he is more innocent)

B) Admitting to partial identification of his problem, but not accepting the whole enchilada. (Avoiding dealing with his own issues)

C) His "privacy" (So he can filander. Being married & in love, I realized there is NO privacy, nor do I WANT privacy from the one I love.)

Classic blameshifting, in the depths of my addiction I stomped around blaming my wife and her issues (which were miniscule until my crazy-making made her unstable) when I should have dropped to my knees, begged her to stay, (which I eventually did but not after she had two feet out the door with both children) and put 2 and 2 together as to why I was unhappy in an unhappy relationship, when I can remember the first few months being together as glorious and magical.

[Mayberry]

Hugs...I'm *still* very sorry about this crap in your life.


Hijack on:

Your (ex?)BF writes: "Please dont respond to this. Not that I want to have the last word, but everything has been said now. We each know what we have to do. If you like, you can just respond back with whether you agree or disagree. Thats all i need to know."

Dear ex-BF: Oh yes, I agree! Or at least I agree that I know what I need to do now. Here's my little smoke signal indicating that I received your email and I am glad to know you have said everything you wish to say. I'll take what *I* have to say and move along now because, in the end, I agree with your basic premise: that you've lost the right to knowing anything further from me and, in fact, have anything more to do with me. I've put you on email block, just in case you change your mind and find you have more to say. I know having the last word isn't important to you, and I appreciate that, because I'm finding it *is* important to me, at least for the purposes of our conversation. Thank you for helping clarify my thinking about what to do next. the-imaginary-hugs

Hijack off.

Sorry, hugs, just had to get that out of my system.

[susan]

Wow.

My H said he'd stop porning when I stopped snooping.

I did and he didn't.

Since you're not married to this guy and have no children with him, I'd tell him goodbye. He's way too into you and your faults. When he is truly in recovery, he won't care how much you check up on him. He may be disappointed, but he'll be happy to let you see that there's nothing.

'pretend that if he does his part, we'll be fine'. Well, of course that's true that it takes two, but I would have felt better if he said 'I will begin this by doing my part'.

Sheesh.

[MrOuch]

When he is truly in recovery, he won't care how much you check up on him. He may be disappointed, but he'll be happy to let you see that there's nothing.

Truer words were never spoke.

Every once in a great moon my wife asks what I'm doing on the computer with that certain tone in her voice. I click on the internet history button and push my chair back to show her. Funny thing is, she doesn't check. She knows I'm an open book in regards to this. There is NO PRIVACY in this arena for me. Am I a little bit disappointed by her inquiry? No, actually I'm satisfied and all too happy to show her what she wants to know. I have nothing to hide.

MrOuch

[Curious Voyager]

mrouch said:

Every once in a great moon my wife asks what I'm doing on the computer with that certain tone in her voice. I click on the internet history button and push my chair back to show her. Funny thing is, she doesn't check. She knows I'm an open book in regards to this. There is NO PRIVACY in this arena for me. Am I a little bit disappointed by her inquiry? No, actually I'm satisfied and all too happy to show her what she wants to know. I have nothing to hide.

MrOuch

Amen and that policy makes me FREE!

[Benderson]

How did that long-winded sonofabich ever find the time to take your inventory in the midst of all his pontificating?

He needs the point at the top of his head filed down.

[truthorlie]

Hugs,

Your H's letter sounds frightening familiar to a couple of letters/emails written to me by my exH. He is asking for you to be exactly how he wants you to be without any choice on your part. He wants you to trust (sorry, he lost that privelege - but he wants it back unconditionally), he says that you have problems that you need to correct (and goes on and on about this in a vague enough way to suggest that you are either the problem or you are the reason he cannot overcome his problems - blatent blameshifting and taking the focus off of him and putting it on you), and he is presenting himself in a "look what a great guy I am" way by pointing out that he isn't doing things like dating and being suggestive to the point, without actually outright lying about it, that he isn't doing other things (I wouldn't believe any PA/SA at the point he is at in his life that he ISN'T doing these things - check your survellience program on his computer - I bet he IS lying and that he is scouring a bunch of sites to see what kind of women there are out there that COULD be for him if/when things don't work out for him with you.)

I am pasting in at least one of the things that he wrote to me and am going to try to find the other letter/email that sounds almost exactly like the letter your H wrote to you. All I can tell you is that from my experience, the man, no - idiot, is more like it, that wrote the crap you are about to read is the same asshole that was sexuallizing every woman that came in to his vision and that he would fantasize about how great a couple him and every sexy, hot woman would be if he could just hook up with them and begin a relationship. He has waited for women outside of gym locker rooms to approach. He has subscribed to online dating sites, "just to look" in case he was missing the woman of his dreams by staying with me, he would compulsively go to bars, clubs, strip clubs to get his fix of whatever woman he was in the mood for - good girl, girl next door, slutty girl that dances sexy, and girl he might be able to go back to her place and bang...

You be the judge...

You know, I am amazed that all of these guys with SA & PA talk the talk of committment and honesty and integrity and intimate close relationships that they want to have with us (blah, blah, blah) and they are sooooo adamant in putting it down in a letter/email, but they NEVER LIVE this way. They just put it down forcefully on paper then do the exact opposite in their day to day lives like nobody's gonna notice or say anything about it. They are creeps.


"I want you to know that I am going to change my life and who I am. I really believe that my sexual addiction is a (probably the biggest) symptom of my selfishness. I have evaluated every encounter in my life with the idea of what can I get out of it. If I did not see a way to benefit, I did not care to pursue a relationship with them. I have always had a hard time speaking to people and looking them in the eye because deep down I knew I did not have their best interest at heart. And that has led to my onjectifying women and use of pornography and masturbation as a means of self satisfying. I am committed to changing that. I know the harm I did to you and I am terribly sorry for that. And yet I am greatful to you because you are the one who made me evaluate myself on an ongoing basis and see this. Since you left I have felt suicidal. I have never felt that way in my life but I know I was on the edge many times over the last month. I no longer feel that way. I still feel empty without you and there is nothing I want more than to be a healthy person (the person you love so much) and to be in a healthy relationship with a healthy you for the rest of my life. I know that I will never look into the eyes of another woman and see their soul and feel about them they way I did your in October 1987. Nearly 19 years later I still feel the same way about you. I will the day I die. I want you back in my life and in my arms but not the way I am and not the way you are now. I will not have any sexual or romantic activity for quite some time. I need to remove that aspect of my life to clear the way I view people. When I have reached the point I need to be I pray that you will be ready for me as well. I do believe they reason I am on this earth is to be with you. If it is not the share youself and you love with that one special person, I don't know what it could be. And you are that one special person for me and I know that I am for you. I pray that you find peace and strength within yourself to love and respect me again.

On January 3rd I changed my actions. I no longer used porn but I did start to use you. I am now committed to never using you again, only loving you and enjoying you. The real person you are. I still believe that you need to become a stronger person and be yourself. what you truely are inside and not worry about the people around you. But know I love that person and want you to share that with me every day for the rest of our life.

I am making changes. I am going to support groups twice a week. I am going to therapy weekly. I am going to meet with Pastor John weekly and I am going to volunteer some of my time each week. I pray that soon we can add a weekly marriage counseling session. I am committed to be the real me. The person I was born to be. and I pray with all my might that I can share that person with you.

I did try to contact you after you left. Text, phone calls messages. I have always known that you are the woman for me. But my self-loathing and lack of confidence and sexual addiction led me to start using porn and masturbating again. I renewed my account on match.com and started looking for new girls. I can't do that anymore. But I decided that since I paid for that site I might as well use it to announce to the people that I encountered what I am and what I have done. So I made my profile public and changed my profile to announce my past ways for all to see. I hope it helps someone else but mostly I need to come clean or I will never be able to get rid of the filth that I have covered my self in. I hope they approve the profile because it is honest and I want to use it as a confession. If they do not I will cancel the account as it has no use for me. Because I want you to know the sincerity of my desire to become a new person, an open, honest, and honorable person. I am giving you the passwords to bank accounts that match site any computer e-mail accounts. Anything you care to look at. Bank account is alcrowell80 pwd is tryagain1 Match is istalways222 pwd is tryagain. My emails are all pwd tryagain.

I am committed to this and I have you to thank for it. I hope that I can give back to you what I have taken from you. I would love to help you on your road to recovery. I don't know how good of an idea this is but I offer to you this. Move back into this house. You can have the master bedroom and bathroom. I will move into the guest bedroom. I promise you there will never be a computer in that bedroom. Just me reading a book to fall asleep to. We will live platonically until we are both ready. If you decide that you cannot live with me any more, I will be crushed but will understand. But atleast that way you have you own place, you can work on yourself and find a good job and become an independent person. Knowing all the time that I love you and will be on my on healing process. If you come to feel comfortable that I have changed the person I am and want to be committed to me for the rest of you live and I am comfortable that I am where I need to be to continue being the person I should be, then I will jump into your arms forever and pray you will do the same. No strings attached, you will get to spend time with you child and be a big part of his life. You will get to see my reovery and decide from first hand information whether or not it is sincere. I get the comfort of knowing that the person I love the most in this world is wanting to try to share our life together.

I love you"

[hugs4u002]

Benderson YOU cracked me up, I am still laughing...thanks
Dear truth or lie, wow, thanks for sharing. What struck me when I read your letter is how easy it is to see the b.s. for what it is when you 'loving' emotions aren't involved. I am assuming you divorced him based on you referring to him as ex. I have moved out and 3 times already my ex has referred to suicide, but I honestly think he loves himself too much to do himself any harm, I think it is just attention seeking b.s., in the very least emotional blackmail.
did you realize you were publishing your ex's passwords to his bank acct.? How are you doing? How long has it been? Is YOUR sanity returning? I feel like I live in some other world, not the real world, where everything you look at is an illusion, can't trust yourself to make an accurate assessment. I am not dating and I have a good support system but I have not cut off completely with ex..he wants me to come over for christmas but I seriously think this is so I will fix the Christmas dinner and he can 'act' the man. I wouldn't mind doing this, I love his family and it would feel like I was home for the holidays, but he is not fooling me with his motives. I think that was the biggest thing that struck a chord with me......EVERYTHING he does is for purely selfish motives. His favorite author is Ayn Rand.