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Post by blueclouds on Apr 24, 2007 12:55:04 GMT -5
Sorry fouroffive, I didn't see your post until after I had submitted mine.
Ok, here I've got Disillusioned, fouroffive, and sadgirl urging me to disclose now. This is very different to how my earlier dialogue with SO's went. I'd say in all it's about 50/50 at this point. I will have to rethink this now instead of in 3 months, looks like...
The truth is I'm feeling very torn over it. Sometimes I catch myself almost saying things to her that come from people on this board, or from my fellow-addict phone contact. There is a natural urge to tell her building in me. Especially as I get more clean time behind me. In the same way, I often catch myself typing my real name here at the end of posts, then deleting at the buzzer. This is just like in non-board emails, where I have almost written Blueclouds on several occasions. The two are merging, I guess.
But my fear of disclosing is like a giant blanket. It falls over me and silences everything. Thank you for pushing me. You know, I just got this feeling as if you were all really pushing me, propping me up. Never has this place felt so much like a support board. Hard as this is to face. Thanks is all I can say.
Bluecouds
EDIT: Thanks to you too, Healing Rain, for your insights. The posts here are piling up faster than I can respond to them!
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Post by fouroffive on Apr 24, 2007 12:55:11 GMT -5
It will cause the baby to abort? Um, no. Not unless there are a whole host of other issues and problems and ANY stress would do that.
Hell, I was on bedrest for weeks, from 29 weeks, with really bad blood pressure that could have caused me to need an emergency section. Stress would have raised my bp and could have really caused me issues. Yet I went to a scheduled section and my bp actually stayed constant. (I monitored it heavily.)
And my baby? Well, I'm a little biased, but my baby is cute, smart (incredibly), mischievous as hell and one of the lights of my life. And my H's. If you tell her in a decent way it will be fine.
And just having read your post to me...
If my H had come and told me that he had a problem, that it was a problem long before me, that he could see where it was messing up the most important thing in his life and that he'd gotten help and was working on it... Well, shoot, that would have been HUGE. And a lot better than what happened. And as long as you aren't "wanting to come totally clean", ie give her details, then I think this can only be a good thing for you all. Don't volunteer specifics but DO answer any question she asks fully. It goes a long way towards the whole honesty and trust thing.
My H answers me honestly. I know it because he'd be an idiot to say what he does otherwise. And it hurts. A lot. And then I remember that he's getting better, that I know he's being honest, that our marriage is better than it ever has been, and that I'm happy again. And I haven't even thought of kicking his sorry butt to the curb at all in the last 6 months. That's HUGE for us.
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Post by sadgirl on Apr 24, 2007 13:18:00 GMT -5
Yes, exactly. Finding it versus being told about it in a loving way would have made so much difference for me. So much.
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Post by nohopeforme18 on Apr 24, 2007 13:27:15 GMT -5
I found out after seeing a movie on the cable bill. My dh said it was the first time, it wouldn't happen again, etc. I had no reason not to trust him.
After things like this happened several more times (me discovering, him lying, then finally admitting when he knew I had proof), I finally realized that he had an addiction.
How I wish he had told me: I wish that on every D Day, he had copped to it the first time I asked instead of lying and gaslighting. I think few PA's realize how infuriating and demoralizing it is for you to know what you did and still deny it. It's like, not only did you betray me again, but you also think I'm stupid, and you think you can lie your way out of it like an 8 year old. I would have 1000 times more respect for my PA if he told the truth, even once, without me having to show my hand first.
I feel so sorry for the pregnant women who have to deal with this. My experience as a pregnant woman was walking into the office when my dh was porning. He closed out the window and I asked what he was doing. He lied, of course, and I let it go. I told him I needed to check my email. We both knew I was going to check the history.
We stayed in that office until 5 am (about 6 hours). He kept saying "give me ten more minutes", hoping my bladder would give way. I was determined to catch him, so I sat there like an idiot, having to use the bathroom, but knowing he would erase the history if I left. This battle of wills went on and on because he refused to admit he messed up. I went into labor the next day, and it will forever be tainted by that night.
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Post by Disillusioned on Apr 24, 2007 13:31:19 GMT -5
I tried to find a thread where SOs told you not to disclose and can't. Can you point me there? I do understand it's a hard time right now. I understand your worries and concerns. But it will be a hard time when you have a newborn keeping you up nights too. And hard when you have a 6 month old. And a toddler. And before you know it.. years have passed or your wife finds out on her own. There's no good time. I still think now is the right time.. And I'm so very glad that you are sober.
-Tina (sometimes my real name shows up here too)
(who now feels like singing an old Yes song..)
There's a time and the time is now and it's right for me It's right for me. And the time is now. There's a word and the word is love and it's right for me. It's right for me. And the word is love.
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Post by nohopeforme18 on Apr 24, 2007 13:34:02 GMT -5
Oh, and I agree that you should tell her now. She may already feel that something is off, and she may be stressing trying to figure out what it is. Make it easy on her.
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Post by dazednconfused on Apr 24, 2007 14:58:06 GMT -5
HOW I FOUND OUT: (Copied from my journal with few edits) In March I found this board bookmarked in the favorites. I asked my husband why, he said he was a porn addict. I said "porn addict??" can that actually happen? We had a long talk. He told me that a year before he started to see that his porning was something he simply wanted to stop. We went to a conference on Religion and the spirituality of the body around that time. It was very interesting and I recall when we were there after a talk on porn, I asked my husband if he ever used p and he said yes. I guess I took it as past tense. Maybe he wasn't clear, maybe I didn't listen... doesn't really matter now. He told me last March that he had been addicted to porn for about 8 years. Addicted to MB since he was a teen. For the past 4 years, I have been convinced I was this awful person, because i thought my husband was having an affair. I swore he was.. not interested in sex, not interested in emotional intimacy, always stressed out, shifting jobs, shutting me out... but when in the hell did he have time to have an affair!? He works and comes home.. I mean seriously, there weren't enough hours in the day. Well, little did I know you could have an affair and never leave your house. Anyway, when he told me about the porn, I was surprised at the activity, but then again not. I knew something was going on, and now I thought I knew what. A week after he told me about the addiction, I ran the recoverymyfiles program. I was really running it to "prove" that when he said he hadn't porned since the 22nd he was telling me the truth. He wasn't, he had porned on the 28th, but I saw the pictures of what he looked at. I saw the level to which this addiction escalated. I hopefully saw the worst of it. I called him at work. I told him I knew what he looked at and when. I told him the name of the websites. A few hours later I called him back and told him he could come home, but only to talk. I wasn't commiting to anymore than that. He came home earlier than I had expected. He was truly a broken man. He apologized, but more than anything, he was broken. We talked... about what seems fuzzy now. We talked most of the night. I listened. The next day we called and we went to his counselor together. HOW I WISH I FOUND OUT: I wish he had told me everything. I know I am blesed that I "found out" after he had told me. I wish he had said something like "there is more, I will answer anything, but right now this is a lot to absorb, so I'll answer when you ask..." Then when I found stuff, I wouldn;t have felt as betrayed. I also wish that he was open with me about his recovery all along. We have been workiong on recovery- his, mine and ours for a year. It has been going well by most standards. I don't think it would have gone this well if I had stumbled upon it. In that year we have been pregnant twice, grieved a baby miscarrying, worked recovery and had a few other major family issues. The communication we learned through recovery and counseling helped us truly get through this year. Although there is never a good time to tell your wife, there is still no time like the present. Hormones while pregnant are better than post-pardum- trust me, I have 6 pregnancies under my belt. Again, guys, remember, if you are disclosing after you have been working recovery, your wife has to play some catch up. You NEED to be HONEST, PATIENT AND SELF-RESPONSIBILE. Most of all, you need to be commited to your recovery- it is the greatest gift you can give your wfie, your family and yourself. good luck all -dazed
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Post by ellen38 on Apr 24, 2007 15:03:31 GMT -5
A month after my bf moved in, the home page of my laptop kept resetting to an "adult" one, and favourites were loaded automatically. I learned this is called hijacking. Had to be professionally removed. I didn't know any of this was possible, or that it even existed. I was told, everything is ok, normal. I tried to believe him. I couldn't. How do I wish I had found out??? certainly before he moved in with me! Then I could at least be safe in my own home. ellen
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Post by Healing Rain on Apr 24, 2007 15:34:15 GMT -5
I wanted to post my discovery story earlier... but it wasn't a possibility at the moment. 3 toddlers running through the house take a lot of supervision! HAHA.... Anyway.. so am back now to offer my story to the thread.
How I found out:
1st time: We were dating. We were actually on a double date with two friends. One of my best friends who was dating his best friend. We had dropped of my friend, and his best friend was in the backseat of the car. We were sitting out in front of my house talking, saying our goodbyes and all.... and the best friend picks up the "stash", holds it high and says "Oh you read the articles in these too, huh?" wink wink... As he looked straight at me with the most evil, sexualized look I had seen in years. Wanting my reaction. H freaked! He jumped out of the car, I jumped out of the car...
I made it perfectly clear that I wasn't going to accept porn in my life, relationship or anywhere near me. I believed it was cheating and always will.. He swore it was just this once, never again... blah blah blah. I was 20, he was almost 19. A few months later, I am pregnant and we are planning our wedding.
2nd time: about 4 months into my pregnancy, I find a stash of magazines while changing the sheets on our bed. I flip through them, put them back, take a shower, completely break down and block this from my memory for years and years.... Though I wouldn't sleep in the bed with him anymore and couldn't figure out why I became filled with anxiety and panic every time I tired. We soon bought a new bed, at my urging. Thought it was the size of the bed, it was a double and I made sure we bought a King. I ended up hospitalized 45 minutes from our home for the remaining time of my pregnancy. I asked him many many times through out this if he was looking at porn again. Always the answer was No, how could you ask such a thing!.... He was looking, and excessively.
3rd time: We are married for 4 years. He has completely ignored me sexually for months. I've initiated beyond acceptable limits. We have a computer, in a room of its own. He begins to lock that door. Spends hours and hours and hours and... well... days... playing computer games behind that door. I find something questionable.. not even porn... think it was a program that looked weird or something... so did a search on the computer... and found tons and tons of stuff. Tons... chat logs of threads from a site he went to, though he swears he never participated, just read and mbed to the pictures. (still don't believe this and he still sticks to it)... Pictures and pictures. Hours and hours... time stamps... dates. He porned on my birthday while I cried in the bathtub because he turned me down for sex. On my birthday. This d-day was only a week later. We fought... and we made up... in one night. one freaken night. I asked him then if he had a sexual addiction and he told me I was crazy for thinking that. That if anyone had the sexual addiction it was me because I was obsessed with it. With sex. With the lack of sex... So, because he had promised it would stop and it wasn't an addiction, meaning he COULD stop... then all would be well right? cause he love me. Not. At this d-day, He layed the blame completely on my shoulders. This was all my fault and the only one who could fix it was me. I needed to be more. To do more. To be open to more. To…. Everything.
I was blind. Completely so.
4th time: Last July 14th. Yes I remember the exact day. Our air conditioner went out. We were having it serviced. It was 114 degrees, with heat index... and 106 in the shade with a breeze. It was HOT. I have 4 children, three of which are still babies. So, he suggested that he would stay home with the mechanic and I should take the kids somewhere air-conditioned. So I did. We went to a few stores. I called him and he said "why don't you go to the mall and walk around?".... walk around the mall with a 6 month old baby, two 2 year old twin boys and a 10 year old?? WTF?? no! So, I came home, but didn't tell him. I knew the minute I walked in the door something wasn't right. I walked over to our bedroom door, stood there with my hand on the door handle.... and couldn't walk in. It was as if God himself was right there protecting me, saying "you already know and do not need to see".... So I called his cell phone, from my side of the door.... I asked him where he was, "at home, why"... "where at home?" "watching TV"... "really, cause I am standing on the outside of our door and you aren't out here watching tv"..."Oh, I'm laying down on the bed, wanted to take a nap"..."oh, so really.. then why is the fan still out here in the living room?".... "I'll be out there in just a second" And I hung up. First words out of his mouth when he came out of the room "Well, you caught me"
Took him another 3 weeks to admit to the extent of it all.... or the extent of most of it... I'm still learning the extent of it all. He lied, and lied and lied... justified, and minimized. (expletive)ed and moaned... blamed and flamed... did it all. ALL.... The next 3 months were hell. And then the next 5 were spent "playing recovery"...saying all the “right” things. Repeating my words, reading my posts on here, manipulating situations to appear legit and honest… Lying up a storm and trying to protect all his secrets. Swearing up and down that he finally “got it” and didn’t want it in his life, couldn’t have it in his life… he loves me so very much, loves his children, wants the best life possible.. wants to be a better man…. But, I knew…There were only words and no action. No depth to his “recovery” His behaviors were the same, HE was the same… So, I waited. Cause I knew. Knew it was playing....
5th time: March of this year. Just last month. I knew that he had stopped looking at porn on the computers.... but I also knew he was running his "stored" porn through his mind and using it to MB to. I knew he was using me to MB to. I absolutely knew, to the depth of my soul. And I waited and waited and waited. I let him play his play, game his game.. and waited. It did me no good to be all up in his stuff every second and every minute and every day... it just damaged me more. So I waited. And this time, this time HURT... But it didn't disable me. We had a very bad sexual experience, in which there was no doubt of his continued usage. He could no longer deny the truth, though he did try. But finally, when asked.... when he could clearly see that I knew the truth regardless of his words, that his actions speak LOUDER and CLEARER than any words... he disclosed.
He told me, confessed... and started working recovery.
See... recovery can not happen with out disclosure. It is when you disclose that true recovery begins.
**********
Now how would have I liked it to go?
Well... I would have really liked to not have that experience in the car with his friend. I would really like to NOT know that I was the "porn" in that moment and that boy was totally feeding off my reaction for his fix. I would really not like to have the memory of my husband throwing me up against a wall, pinning me there and screaming that this was all my fault. I would really like to not have old memories that I blocked come crashing down on me (though this isn’t limited to only his porning, but also my childhood and isn’t a surprise when it happens. I’ve known I do this since long before I met my H, survival technique) I would really like to not stand on one side of my bedroom door while my H has sex with other women in my bed. (yes, mb to porn is having sex with other women) I would really like not to have been the object of his MBing fantasies, while he sexually rejected me…. But, since I can't have all that, because what is done is done…...
It would have made a significant difference in our relationship, in where we are today if just once… just once along the way, when asked the question "are you looking at porn again?" He had answered truthfully, and with respect. To be honest with me. To feel my importance in his life dictated such. But more than that…that just the fact that I am my own person, not his possession, gave me the right to know that truth, and to respect that as a complete fact and give it. That’s what I would have liked.
I went years knowing something was wrong. Our whole relationship of 14 years actually. I wondered what was wrong on my wedding day, when things didn't go exactly right sexually. I wondered a month later when he was rejecting me sexually, I wondered a year later after our son was born and he took to his computer games... I wondered after we moved and he would get home later than usual...I wondered when he all of a sudden decided I was “HOT” and needed me daily sexually after our twins were born, and couldn’t stop making sexualized comments about my body. I wondered when he became infatuated with a female coworker that he was traveling with…one he tried to force on me over and over “If you just got to know her you would see how Wonderful she really is!!”…. And I wondered, when I rejected all his advances to add this woman into MY life, and his desire for me came to a screeching halt. I wondered when my sexual restriction after giving birth was lifted and he had no desire to re-engage with me “NA, just not in the mood hun, I’m tired” I wondered and wondered and wondered.....
And I asked. I've always been one to speak up when something bothers me. Its very hard for me not to. So I asked. MAny many many times. "There is something wrong with our relationship, please help me with this so we can make it better"... so many many many times... and each time I was told it was my imagination, nothing was wrong. He loved me, only me, always me....
And here we sit, 14 years after we starting dating. 12 years after d-day 1, 7 after d-day 3, almost 1 year after d-day 4.... And with D-day 5 fresh and alive in my house….
And all he had to do was answer honestly, respectfully and Loving. And our situation would be greatly different. Our interaction would be greatly different... There were so many chances… and probably many I don’t even know about.
If he had taken just one of those chances…Just one… and come to me with this… I can honestly say, that things would be different. Completely so. I would have embraced him, instead of pulled away. I would have held on and supported, instead of running to protect myself from him. I would have hurt, no doubt about that… but I would have seen him as a different person than what I saw him as at each and every D-day.
~Rain~
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Post by JohnG on Apr 24, 2007 16:16:18 GMT -5
How she found out: When I told her. How she wishes she had found out: Before she got emotionally involved with a lying sociopath. If you think I am exaggerating, consider the following laundry list of characteristics, ALL of which I share (and many more listed in the link that follows): Profile of the SociopathGlibness and Superficial Charm Manipulative and Conning They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims. Grandiose Sense of Self Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Pathological Lying Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests. Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way. Shallow Emotions When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises. Incapacity for Love www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.htmlJohnG
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Post by blueclouds on Apr 24, 2007 18:15:04 GMT -5
I tried to find a thread where SOs told you not to disclose and can't. Can you point me there? OK, Disilussioned, this is all I was able to dig up in 10 minutes or so (most of the way down on the link below). It's from my journal. Notice I got the words wrong but the gist is the same. After this, I felt empowered by what I thought was a kind of free pass not to disclose for several months, and started posting all over the place: "I haven't told my SO yet, but she's pregnant, so..." in true idiot fashion. Then, I feel sure a few SO's have seconded the notion, but you know what? I'm not even sure I trust myself on that. I don't think I've just kind of waved my magic wand over "An SO told me" to turn it into "The SO's told me," but neither would I put it past me. In any case, this is what I've believed for over a month now, and I've been going around saying it openly (how happy I was behind my shield), and no one has raised a finger until now. In any case, this thread has moved and is moving something in me on this issue. I felt less hidden this evening in front of my SO, less able to hide. It is as if there is something gnawing at me now when I'm with her, something clawing to get to the surface. This is new, or at least the intensity of it is new. One of the most useful threads I've read here, which is saying a lot. Blueclouds lightwave.proboards48.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=journal&thread=1146252788&page=7
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Post by ursula on Apr 24, 2007 19:00:04 GMT -5
Blueclouds, I'm 6 months pregnant and have some strong feelings about wether or not you should tell your so right now. I can totally understand how most here think you should be forthcoming now instead after the birth and perhaps that is the best decision. I don't know. My situation is a little different being that I already knew my h was a pa but believed he was in recovery. I discovered him watching p a little over a month ago and it's been devestating. I know there is no way to see the future but I strongly urge you to be consider wether or not this information will put your so under tremendous stress. I had to go to the docs because I feared the stress was too much for the baby. Will this ruin the rest of her pregnancy? Will she be too focused on you and your addiction rather than her health and the upcoming birth? Will she feel the need to pull away from you? One of the hardest things for me right now is feeling so alone during this special time. As much as I want my h to be a part of this, I'm just so hurt from the discovery to let him in. It's a terrible situation.
I firmly believe the truth is always, always the best route to go but I do worry about the quality of her remaining pregnancy. I so wish h had come to me before he used but it didn't work out that way. Of course I should say DO NOT USE where she may find out on her own. If you should tell her now or later is a tough question but you're the best person to ask since you are the one who knows her best. I wish you and her all the very best in the future with new baby regardless.
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Post by LookingUp on Apr 25, 2007 10:13:53 GMT -5
Long winded, like usual.
We'd discussed porn prior to marriage. I'd been twice married and although I hadn't heard of porn addiction; I knew it ruined marriages because the more porn they watched, the less they could bond with the partner, the more entitlement they had and the less empathy. He assured me he'd saw a few black/white Playboy Magazines when he was a teen, but he'd outgrown that stage. Then he followed it up by saying what a scourge porn was on society and how it tore down families, objectified women, blah, blah. Everything I wanted to hear came out of his mouth without me asking for any elaboration. I was enthralled and my respect and hope for this marriage grew by leaps and bounds. He also went to church, raised his hands and wept as he praised God - then we marry and he goes a couple times a year. Lots of courtship deceipt.
My first discovery was when we were newlyweds (we didn't live together prior to marriage). His charge card bill came with $76 that he couldn't account for. I asked if I could call the corresponding phone number. It was for porn. He told me to cancel it. He blamed his teen sons. Said they must have taken the charge card bill, used the number off it to sign up. Since it was plausible, I thought he was squeeky clean. I was a bit upset he didn't have any punishment for his kids - used the "but I wouldn't know which one did it" excuse that he became famous (infamous?) for using.
A few weeks later, I took an afternoon nap. His kids were not home. When I came downstairs, his glasses were on crooked, his shirt was buttoned crooked, his pants weren't zipped and his shirt was sticking out of the zipper placket. I started laughing and asked him if he needed to fly home for his mother to teach him how to dress himself properly. He was quite angry at me the rest of the day. I thought that was a weird response, but things weren't clicking yet.
I found a lot of porn on the computer. Again, the boys got blamed. When I'd tell him he should discipline them and teach them to not do that. I'd get the "but I don't know which one; I can't punish the wrong one."
Next inkling was when he took me to a strip bar. He didn't oogle the girls, but set us so I could help but see them. I told him I didn't like to be there and wanted to go home. He refused. Said if I didn't like it I could sit in the car. I don't know why a man would want to make his wife uncomfortable and refuse to help the comfort. He refused to give me the car keys - it was about 40 below and we were at a town 15 miles from where we lived so I felt stuck there. (I'd handle it differently now that I've grown some guts - I'd call a taxi and let him pay for the long ride). Plus, part of me felt I needed to monitor him.
There were several times he'd go for a walk for a few hours alone and if I'd want to go, he'd refuse. I discovered these corresponded to when strippers were in town. I was happy he wasn't drinking; so didn't connect the dots.
More and more porn kept showing up on his computer. Our sex life became weirder and weirder. He usually couldn't get an erection. Then he'd act all sad. Later he'd blame me for his ED.
[trigger]Then he started coming up with ideas to stop his ED. He wanted me to let him take digital photos. He wanted to have me act out sex scenes. He also wanted to shove things up my behind. Since this is under trigger - the one time he managed to get an erection without me mb him really, really hard was when I took photos of him naked to make him happy - he didn't have to touch it - it just grew hard quickly. That really left me puzzled since he usually ejaculated without an erection (ever tried to mb a plastic bag of jello - that's what it was like - very challenging). The one thing he did that I resent the most was he cornered me emotionally to go over and over and over and over my second rape - later I figured out he was digging at the pain for fodder for his addiction; using my pain for his pleasure. That's a hard one to release.[/trigger]
More porn. More denial. More blameshifting.
He'd often make comments that the only reason he hadn't cheated on his late wife was because living in a small, remote town, he'd get busted and end up with c/s. That was sooo opposite of the moral man he said he was during our courtship.
Then he started acting really sexy towards other women in our darts group. He'd grab their breasts or stroke their behind or pull them onto his lap. I blamed his drinking. He started leaving me at darts and driving home drunk - and when I'd walk home, he'd blame me for not being there - blame me for cheating on him, accusing me of having sex in the women's room with some of the women or sneaking out to cars with other men. He had weird, weird fantasies of what I was doing. What's weirder is I was in the same room with him and I'd watch him get up and figure he was going to the bathroom and he wouldn't come back - then discover he'd taken the car and went home. I started going to Al-Anon and counseling. I made boundaries. I quit going to darts - terrible fear because I figured in his drunken stupor he might commit physical adultery and told him if he did that he was history. I made a boundary if he drove drunk that I'd call the cops. I made a boundary that if he was verbally rude to me that I'd leave the room and if he followed me and continued being rude that I'd go to a motel. I did that once and that ended the drunken abuse. I also slept in the spare bedroom because he's thrash around in his drunkeness and I was concerned I'd get a black eye. I quit caretaking and he decided to quit drinking. Then he was a dry drunk for about 18 months... and I often wished he was still drinking. One was as hard to live with as the other. I'm proud of him - for 6 years he's only had two slips and he didn't go to AA, counseling or read any books. Just white knuckled. Of course, sobriety without recovery meant he switched addictions.
Then the PA really took hold. I found lots more porn. I found no-porn and a site for Christian women. I started studying, reading, educating myself. I was still weary from the five year fight with his drinking and dry drunk and had to refresh myself before I had the energy to fight his PA and heal and grow through that.
I started monitoring him like crazy and about lost myself in the process. I was more addicted to him then he was to porn. I finally found some boundaries that worked for me - they are linked at the bottom in "My Recovery Plan" I put them into effect. We've had four in-house separations. I've spent hundreds of dollars on books as part of my "recovery" when he visually cheats.
In Dec 2006, we had our first in-house separation and my first book-buying spree. I'd implemented my initial recovery plan when I discovered he'd joined an on-line adult dating site trying to meet local women. All his excuses didn't work.
He still won't acknowledge anything about his porn. He did say he realized it hurt me and pushed me away from him. He won't acknowledge that he needs to rebuild trust because he didn't intentionally break that trust. (Like that's an excuse to avoid the hard work of rebuilding trust, eh?) His last two slips were Sept 2007 (shortly after retiring) and Dec 2007 (he sent me away for a week to visit my family and had a porn-fest). Actually before I went to visit family, he got his first intercourse-capable erection that he'd had in years. I felt he was really making progress. When I returned from the trip and ran Recover My Files - he blamed everybody but himself and the respect plummeted.
Do I love him - YES. Do I respect him - in a few areas where he's been honest but he continues to dig a grave for this marriage by his lack of honesty.
Like the other two marriages. When I've had enough, I've had enough and then it is non-repairable. I'm at the place in my healing where I don't want the details, I don't want the history, I'd like a weekly how he's doing - making progress, holding his own or struggling. He won't even acknowledge that much of a problem. He went to one counseling appointment and won't follow through with going again. He started a couple books on my request and won't finish them. He has a POP3 account and won't give me the password or open it if I'm in the room. I've detached. It's not my addiction, it's not my problem. If hurting his wife, having a sexless marriage (his choice), living in separate bedrooms (his choice) is apparently not enough rock bottom for him to get help; thus, he'll have to find his own rock bottom. I've detached. Not my addiction, not my problem. I refuse to let his addiction steal my joy or peace. I'm moving on with my life. I'm growing into the best LookingUp that I can be. I refuse to wear myself out and die an early death trying to get him to hit bottom, I'm not that co-D - or possibly I'm not that loving. (depends on your frame of mind) I have not given up my right to pray for him and leave his addiction in The Lord's hands. My motto: "Not my addiction, not my problem."
How I wish I would have found out. I wish when we discussed it during our courtship that he would have said it was an area he struggles with. That he would have made a recovery plan, showed me he cared and was working on it. I struggle with keeping the clean slate of forgiveness attitude going since he made a unilateral decision to not disclose this truth before he proposed. What kind of monster lies to someone who's been hurt twice by PA/SA husbands (and a few PA/SA fiances), who's been twice raped by SAs (one a stranger and one a date rape by a fiance and his best friend) and thinks that it will be okay. Who is stupid enough to think they can hide it enough it won't hurt their partner?
Had he deceived himself during our dating that marriage would help him quit his PA. Then when he realized that didn't work - why didn't he come to me then and reveal his struggles. His PA hurts; but the lies, coverups, game-playing have damaged this marriage until it's not even recognizable as a marriage - except we share a last name, a mortgage and I claim his as a spouse on my income tax forms.
Having said that, I read "Women, Sex and Addiction" by Charlotte Davis Kasl and realize I had problems that hindered me from seeing the red flags of his PA during our dating. So I don't put ALL the blame on him. I had a dysfunctional past I was still working through that he knew about; however, I didn't lie to him and he lied his head off.
Porn hurts - lies kill.
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Post by victoria on Apr 25, 2007 12:07:02 GMT -5
I don't understand the motive for Phoenix wanting more replies to this thread.
I've read the replies and I've read a lot on this topic previously. I've been in my own dilemmas regarding making a decision. Other's experiences help, but you have to make your own decision that's right for you.
And I hope you hear the part of getting a good sex addiction therapist, a 12 step program, some kind of spiritual guidance, and not going into this ALONE. There are many other addicts here that would be glad to help, also.
peace and good luck,
v
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Post by stillnshock on Apr 25, 2007 20:36:59 GMT -5
Ah, somedude...you have found my Achilles heel, haven't you? Smart guy. I am working on that in therapy, I always think it's my fault. Garbage from my prior existence.
To all PA's struggling with the disclosure: I think that what is most important is what you do AFTER the disclosure, and how loving and humble you are and how commited to recovery you are and what you are willing to do to make things right that matters. That's the heart of the matter.
I was furious with my H. Absolutely furious. I raged and fought and made an ass of myself. There was one night that I tried to "drown my sorrows" and drank too much and , believe me, I was a complete crazed maniac. I actually posted the story because I felt so awful. And a couple of times he was a jerk right back to me. But he finally said, "I won't listen to you yell at me, but I will talk about anything you want and I promise that I am going to beat this thing. I know you don't believe a word I say, but I will convince you that I am going to be the man I want to be, for you, for me, for our kids, for us." I am starting to believe him. He respected me enough to finally tell me, and respected himself enough to not take any abuse from me over it. I think that's a good place to start.
Now that I look back on it, I see that he didn't HAVE to tell me anything. While I did find the history, I didn't really search any further. I believed him. I think that is one thing that made him feel so bad: he had violated my trust. And he knew he was lying, and he felt the shame like a boulder on his chest. So he just said that night, "Can we talk?"
And his attitude is what is holding me up right now, and I have to give him props. He is not only taking the initiative to get help, he is doing anything I ask to help me learn to trust him...including verification. He is proving to me that he is willing to do whatever it takes. When I get panicky and question him about something that is bugging my brain, he answers calmly and not defensively. And so I am feeling less and less like I have to control him, and that he will take the initiative to avoid his rituals that led to his behavior. (Oh, I am still monitoring him though. I need that to be able to begin to trust again.) When he is out of town, I told him to call me if he feels like slipping, and I won't yell at him. I just want to help him help us, and to help me heal and learn to love and trust again. We have a wonderful life, and we have so much to lose. He said today, "I feel free. I feel like I have a new beginning, a new life, I'm a new man." We all deserve to have a second chance when we sincerely want to change, and I am giving him that chance. We are in the early stages so I can only hope for the best right now.
But it's fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, isn't it? So I still have to remain guarded and find a healthy detachment so I will survive if something goes wrong.
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