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Post by tomlincolnsixecho on Jan 30, 2007 6:06:30 GMT -5
Hey Freshstart
That is a very difficult situation. I have always feared that in my future counseling sessions. I fear that they will say something that will stir my emotions up, and lead to indecisiveness in my recovery.
Ultimately it is your choice what to do. I feel your counselor is looking to give you the best chance of recovery in his professional opinion, thinking you may hurt yourself and your GF, by continuing down the same path.
However Its definitely your choice, and what ever makes you happy, no one can make the decision for you.
I Wish you the best Freshstart. We are all here for a better life.
Cheers
TL6E
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Post by MJ on Jan 30, 2007 6:21:37 GMT -5
Hey freshstart,
Thanks for stopping by in my journal. You've written a good entry here. I can completely understand why you're uncomfortable with the whole therapy thing. The main reason why I myself don't seek out therapy (besides money) is the fact that I don't want to just end up talking with somebody who really doesn't know me but who thinks he/she can diagnose me instantly.
I think that guys like us, freshstart, suffer especially hard because of our conflicts over sexuality. I believe that our addiction to gay porn is due to the fact that we cannot express our homosexual side outwardly, so we're forced to do it inwardly.
I totally understand your conflict over coming out or staying with your girlfriend and having a family. Even though I myself am not in a relationship with a girl, I can completely understand the mixed feelings and torture that your mind must go through every day.
It's tough for guys like us. The good thing is that we know we're not alone. This board has made me realize that I'm not the only guy who struggles with this.
Keep posting and keep sticking around here. I'm glad you're with us.
Your friend, MJ
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Post by JohnG on Jan 30, 2007 7:12:30 GMT -5
FS,
An hour is good - if you use it well. As you point out you spend some time on non-recovery related stuff. Me too. The time that is most productive for me is time spent a) sharing honestly about my past sexual/PA history, my current struggle, etc., b) reading other journals and seeing either what is working for others or what were they doing/not doing when they slipped and c) in some other non-board related recovery work.
For me c) is AA. I can't remember if we have talked about recovery groups. There are links in my signature line if you are interested. As to the counseling - give it a chance. You can always decide that the guy is not connecting with you. As to the gay issue - that is very complicated and will require you to be honest with yourself. Beware of hanging on to a straight lifestyle for the wrong reasons. Only you can make that decision but think long and hard about it, be open to ideas that you don't like - you can always discard them later - just make sure you don't reject ideas for the wrong reasons. We can all throw up a wall when someone tells us something that we don't want to hear.
MJ has some interesting thoughts. I have to think more about what he is saying - could a seemingly addictive relationship with P be instigated by repression of one's true sexual identity? I don't know. It would be worth doing some research to see if this is a common phenomenon.
Anway, your post above has some very good honesty.
Please keep up the good work and keep coming back.
Your friend,
JohnG
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Post by freshstart on Jan 30, 2007 7:37:26 GMT -5
Hey JohnG, Mj and Tomlincolnsixecho Thanks for your support. At the moment i am happy overall with the therapy. I feel very comfortable with this therapist, as he does not seem to make any judgements about what i have told him. He has gently challenged some of my interpretation of previous events and given me a slightly different perspective on them. It is very interesting. Its certainly difficult, but its good.
As to origin of the addiction, i think that it is much more complex than one issue. For instance, i had no testosterone (and as a result, no s-- drive) for four years, so when i got treatment at 24/25, it was like going through an instant puberty again. I went from no S-- drive to a very large S-- drive in teh space of a week. This was laid on a foundation of very low S--ual self-esteem, after four years of having difficulty even getting an erection. Couple that with hidden homos--uality (i won't say repressed, as i had acknowledged it myself, and even told my g/f a little about it), and i guess it does help to explain the addiction.
However i am a little bit uneasy about this statement, for two reasons. a) if i am honest, i don't like it because it says that the only way to resolve it would be to leave my g/f b) It sounds a little like an excuse. It is because of my reaction to events that i ended up with this addiction. This statement almost makes it sound inevitable that we would end up with an eddiction. Does that take some responsibility away from us. .......Maybe i am just intellectualising this, because (a) is my real reason and i want to justify it!?
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Post by freshstart on Jan 30, 2007 7:44:58 GMT -5
As for coming out. Well i am trying to keep all options open within this therapy, but i have to be honest. I am doing this, because i believe i will be in a better position to know that i do not want them, if i have considered them fully. I don't think i am holding onto a straight lifestyle per se. I think i am holding onto my relationship with my g/f.
How would i know this? If Homos--uality became the norm. If gay men took over the world and gave preference for jobs, success etc to gay men, would i then come out and express my gayness?
If this situation happened, and i still had an opportunity of a relationship with my g/f, i think that i would stay with her. I know this may sound like rationalisation, but i love her deeply. Every part of me loves her. She is so beautiful, she is so genuine and caring, and funny and vulnerable and wise and silly. We are like two trees who have grown together and are intertwined in each other. Obviously we have problems. They are almost all of my making, but even despite these, we are still very strong.
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Post by JohnG on Jan 30, 2007 8:51:04 GMT -5
FS,
My point about "hanging on" was based on what little I understand about the importance of your relationship with your GF.
You stated a while back that you were worried about a therapist declaring that you need to come out and get rid of your GF. My only fear is that you may automatically resist certain avenues if they seem to be leading in that direction. If the couseling is to be effective you cannot come to conclusions before hand. There is somewhat of a contradiction (which you seem to admit) in leaving all options open just so that you can later say that you have considered them fully and therefore feel more comfortable in your decision. This sounds like you sort of want someone (or some process) to endorse the decision that you have already made.
I want to make it clear I have no experience and no opinion on the whole issue here of your gay feelings and what (if anything) you need to do about them. I just want you to gain full advantage from any work that you do.
I don't know if I am making sense. All I can say for sure is that I want us all to iron all this stuff out and find a reasonable level of hapiness and serenity.
Your friend,
JohnG
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Post by freshstart on Jan 30, 2007 8:58:20 GMT -5
HEy JohnG I wasn't offended by your post in the least. I understand exactly what you were saying, and it is a point that needed to be made. I am changing my thinking slowly, one day at a time. I think that no matter how i think at the beginning, as long as i am completely honest with the therapist, i will end up with very different thoughts. I know what i would like them to be, but i don't know what they will be.
FS
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Post by freshstart on Jan 31, 2007 5:31:48 GMT -5
I will be travelling tonight, and staying in a hotel. This can be quite risky for me. Hmmm. Things i must not start doing a) turn on the television b) checking myself out in the mirror
Things i should do: a) Decide what time i will go to bed b) Text my g/f to let her know i got there OK b) Get my clothes ready for the morning c) Get my information ready for the morning d) Go to bed e) Read a book f) Go to sleep
I won't be checking in here tomorrow, or until the following evening, as i won't have access to a computer.
Things i am ashamed of: Once when i was young i think a girl of the same age may have abused me. But i let her. I was young (at a guess maybe 7), i was looking for people to play with one evening, and my usual friends were not around. There were some girls from the neighbourhood (very small community) playing, and i tagged along. One of them said she knew how to do an operation, as her uncle was a surgeon. They said i could only play if i let them perform the operation. I said OK. They said i had to lie on my front and pull down my trousers. I did. She used twigs to prise my buttock cheeks apart and messed around with the twigs in between my buttock cheeks. I don't remember it being sore, so i guess it must have all been external.
I don't really remember how i felt afterwards, but now i feel ashamed that i let it happen. She was the same age as me, and a girl. I should have had no problem standing up to her. I don't know why i let her do this. I have largely forgotten about it, but sometimes i remember it.
Ironically, she was the first girl i fancied. She was (almost literally) the girl next door. When i was young (very young), i thought we would get married when older, as she was a boy and i was a girl [Edit: i just noticed this freudian slip when re-reading. I will leave it here. Maybe it says something]. The only problem was that she was a few months older than me, and i thought that the boy was always older than the girl.
When i hit puberty, i fancied her properly, and again i thought that we might get married. This time i was not bothered about the age. She was not interested and instead turned me into a "friend". I felt emasculated by this process, but i let it happen anyway. It was some level of contact with her. She seemed really exotic. Thats twice i gave up my power to her.
Interesting, i hadn't made that second connection, until i wrote it here. I see her now very occassionally. I don't like her. Maybe that is some left over anger, but i don't think so. I think that she is not a very nice person, although this probably comes from her own insecurities, so i shouldn't judge. Funnily enough, she is very eager to make contact with me now, but she still views me as the way she knew me when i was 15, i.e., i can be her friend, and she can tell me her problems, and (expletive) about people, and i will agree. She didn't even notice that i had changed by the time i was 18 and saw her last. She definitely hasn't taken the time to notice that i have changed again since then. I was her lap dog when i was 15, but even by the time we finished school, it was her who initiated all contact.
Its funny, i wouldn't have thought of her as significant in my life, as i have seen so little of her since school, but i have a lot to say about her. Whenever i see her now, i feel like i hate her. That is a lot of emotion. There must still be something there.
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Post by JohnG on Jan 31, 2007 5:47:19 GMT -5
Good luck on your trip FS. Stay safe.
As to the girl - I don't know whether it would be wise to see her now or not. It might help it might not - ask your counselor. I think whatever you do you have to find a way to get rid of your resentment. Forgiving her is probably the way. If she is selfish and uses you for her own purposes then you have to see that she is, like all of us, a human being with defects. If you can really forgive her then you will liberate yourself.
Again, have a great (or at least safe and productive) trip.
JohnG
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Post by freshstart on Jan 31, 2007 6:16:40 GMT -5
Thanks JohnG
I have no intention of seeing her again. As i said, i bump into her occassionally, and it would be rude not to speak, but i don't really like her, so i try to limit contact. Yes it would be healthy to give up resentment, but i have only just acknowledged that there might be some resentment there. Up until now, i thought i was making an objective assessment that she wasn't very nice and that was why i didn't like her. If there are other reasons that i do not like her, i think it would be healthy to figure out what they are. I don't think you can give up anger/resentment towards someone until you figure out why you have it.
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Post by freshstart on Feb 2, 2007 8:10:24 GMT -5
Well i am not sure if this is Day 0, or Day 25. I had an OK trip. It went relatively well. I did check myself out a little in the mirror, and i did watch a little bit of Television, so i know i was already in "seeking" mode. Then it happened at the airport last night. Airports are funny places. I always find that they are full of S--ual material. I think that maybe because people are so far from home, and taken away from the normal comforts and constraints of their lives, they are more likely to indulge in S--ual material.
So i went into a newsagent. I looked at the magazines. I picked up a copy of penthouse. Now, as i don't normally look at straight P, i didn't (at the time) consider this to be real P. I looked through it, and glanced at the pictures of the naked ladies. I also looked at Playboy. [as an aside, germany is a little strange with regards to P. These magazines were not on the top shelf, as they might be in most countries, in fact they were on a table in the middle of the newsagents]. Anyway, i looked at them, and they are P, even if they are not what i would normally go for, they are still P. More importantly, i had stopped being honest with myself. I was in "seeking" mode. I was seeking material that would give me a P-like thrill, but that wouldn't break my sobriety.
I truly believe that day-counting is very important, but sometimes it can take away from what we are really trying to do. Counting up days, where you keep to the letter of the rules, but break the spirit of them, is probably wasting time. When I do this, i am not moving away from the addiction, i am appeasing it. It only struck me, much later on, that i may have lost my sobriety. I was wondering how i could get around it. I might say that i had looked at FHM-type magazines, and that would be bad, but not enough to reset the counter. But the most important thing is that i am honest here on this board. If i cannot be honest here, then i never will be. Also, for the record, i have to say that i went into clothes shops, on the pretence of looking at clothes, but only really to check out their underwear.
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Post by freshstart on Feb 2, 2007 8:18:28 GMT -5
This is very disappointing for me, but for the first time in a long time, i can say that this really was a slip, rather than a jump. Most "slips" by addicts who know that they are addicts, are really jumps. We know the consequences before we do it, but we don't care. In this case i genuinely hadn't thought through the consequences.
I love acheivement, and i hate the feeling of losing something, so i am really ticked off to lose my day count, over a minor transgression, but the long term is more important to me.
Why did it happen: 1. I was checking myself out in the mirror 2. I turned on the TV and was really looking for something titilating 3. I let my concentration slip. 4. I was not prepared for the trip. I had not identified the dangers and made a plan for how i would deal with them. 5. I walked around teh airport looking for titilating material.
The main good that comes out of this, is that i will be better prepared for my next trip. The dangers are everywhere in a trip abroad. Most importantly, the only shops i can go into in an airport are food shops, and shops where i can buy my g/f a littlle souvenir. Clothes shops and newsagents are out. The only reason to go into a newsagents is to buy some water or something like that. I should already have a book with me, but in exceptional circumstances, i can buy a book. But i should treat bookshops like i am entering a radioactive zone. I must be really careful, and get in and out as quickly as possible.
Day 0, sorry to say.
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Post by JohnG on Feb 2, 2007 9:31:18 GMT -5
You are right about the day count - it can be a motivator but ultimately it is a poor measure of sobriety. One can have better sobriety on day 10 than on day 20. The count is dangerous if it becomes an end in and of itself and I see this happen a lot. It is just a tool and a counter-productive one if it becomes more important than the quality of my sobriety today.
Resetting the counter is a personal choice. But remember - what is much more important than that question is being able to answer the questions, "Am I being honest?" and "Am I working my recovery program?" affirmatively.
You have posted here and been honest. That is what will get you better. I want to look at this sentence for a moment:
This is a good bit of honesty and a really really important point. The long term and the quality of your sobriety today are what matters. The day count means nothing. It is a motivational tool - that's all.
Don't be sorry. If you have learned ANYTHING that can help you in the future, you are better off today than you were yesterday.
Your friend,
JohnG
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Post by freshstart on Feb 2, 2007 12:30:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the encouragement johnG.
Tomorrow morning will be a risky time for me. My g/f will leave early, and i will be on my own in the apartment. I may be feeling a little down after seeing the counsellor tonight, and i do have some genuine business on the internet.
However, i cannot go on the internet tomorrow morning, as there are too many risk factors present:
- On my own in the apartment all day - Recent slip - May be feeling down due to therapy stirring up emotions and memories
So i will get up when my g/f gets up and then i will go to town and buy meat and fish. I have a lot to do tomorrow, so i will do that and do the internet stuff when she is around (sunday).
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Post by MJ on Feb 2, 2007 15:30:31 GMT -5
Hey freshstart,
Don't beat yourself up over what you did. In my opinion I wouldn't even consider it a slip. I stopped the whole day count thing after my last slip with p (almost two weeks ago). Day after day, viewing my life in terms of 1 or 30 or 100 was just driving me crazy.
Anyways, keep writing about stuff here. Take care.
MJ
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