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Post by cflanders on Jun 19, 2005 15:00:15 GMT -5
Can I join in?
I read your initial post the other day - you were talking clinically I thought you had more of a medical condition than a way of dealing with overwhelming feelings. Obviously, I was reading pretty fast and missed a few things.
So LU - how often are you doing this now?
I've never fallen head-first into it (not on a daily or even weekly or monthly basis) but when I am really hurting or really angry I am so afraid of my rage that I'd rather hurt myself than risk harming someone else.
Part of my melt-down a few weeks ago that I would not write about publicly involved me slapping myself hard and then when I was restrained I managed to scratch my chest repeatedly. It was pretty bad,.I was bleeding and have scars although the vitamin E I used helps minimize them a lot. I think they'll fade in time.
It was interesting to note objectively that I didn't feel anything on my skin when I did that, no pain and was surprised to see blood but I did feel skin under my fingernails for hours afterward.
LU, does your H know about this and how does he deal with it? (I think I know, the usual way he deals with things, right? - but I wanted to hear it from you.)
I think making friends outside the internet is a great idea. I was at a park last week for a softball game and along came a pack of women and their dogs. They all made laps around the park a few times and some of them came over to talk to me. Turns out they are all neighbors and this is one of the highlights of their day. I really wished that I lived nearby instead of 1.5 hours away - I really longed to be a part of something like that.
Take care.
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 19, 2005 15:48:51 GMT -5
cflanders, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this hurting yourself crap, too. Mine tends to be cyclic and lessens with age. At puberty (a few weeks after dad died) Mom discovered I had a 2" bald spot in my head from pulling my hair out. I got paddled for it. I learned to be cautious. It was worse for the first month after D-Day. I may go days without doing it - seldom pull more then a few and then find something else to do so I'm too busy and I stop the behavior. Diet plays a big part - after vacation (and lots of junk food), I may have a bad spell; same after Christmas. Then once every few months, I'll have a pullfest and pull dozens of hairs - not eat them and try to hide them all in the trash before my husband sees hairs all over the house; clean my brush and dump it in the trash so they won't look so conspicuious. I've been analyzing it. I think how mine started is I'm a space cadet. I was often spanked for daydreaming and not paying attention. I get so focused on what I'm thinking that I truly do loose track of what's going on around me. I think if the house caught on fire that I'd notice it or when my kids were little and they needed me, that filtered through. But when I think - I think and it's like everything else around me turns into a dreamworld, a half existence, a fog, a mirror - only my thoughts are real and everything else is twilight. I think the hair pulling, biting myself, scratching myself (never to the point it would bleed or leave marks or I'd be spanked) started as a child. If I'd go into thinking mode - then I would be pinching or pulling or something to keep that little thread with reality so I knew what Mom was up to so I could avoid spankings. It was less painful to hurt myself to stay partially alert then to have 10 hits with the razor strap. I probably started this behavior about age 2 or 3 because it was an established coping mechanism when I started school (a year early to get me off her hands). A few teachers use to yell at me for stroking hair and pulling out hair when they weren't looking. Then I go to school and there's all these kids that are more mature (at age 5 a year is a big difference) and I really felt out of it. That's when I think the arithemania started... trying to keep up. I was a preemie who was left in the hospital for a month and my parents never came to see me... not even once. A couple weeks after I came home, my grandmother got cancer and died on my 13th month birthday. During that time my sister (18 months older) was still rocked all night long because she'd never slept in a bed yet. Mom said she never held me - would put my bottle on a little blue duck thing and then burp me. She's also mentioned she always felt I hated her because I didn't "need" her or her love -- no, because I'd already learned not to count on her to be there for me. I think some of my history caused abandonment issues because Mom never bonded with me or me her. That bonding I so desperately needed - I tried to "earn" it as a child. I tried to be good enough - I bend over backwards being a people pleaser so I could earn love. Only in the past 10 years have I started getting healthy boundaries. I think my lack of boundaries is partially why I didn't/couldn't have friends. The few friendships I had were very needy people who drained me financially, physically and emotionally - so I quit trying since even being accepted by a friend seemed so painful and so emotionally expensive. That's been one of my big challenges in the past few years - to learn Bible scripture that show me God loves me unconditionally - it's not based on my being good enough to earn his love. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a judgment side - but that's not towards me, only towards sin. But to do the 12-steps, I had to find the non-judgemental side of God, or I couldn't do Step 3. Who'd want to turn their life over to a mean, selfish, cruel, unloving God? I think discovering what the Bible says about the loving God has been the most important thing that has ever happened in my life, next to choosing to become a Christian. I do feel the pain when I pull out a hair. Some unconscious mechanism is very, very perfectionistic of where I pull the hair and which hair I pull and how hard I pull. The pain hurts but it's also ..... it's not sexual but it's an emotional release, very similar to an orgasm. I hate the pain but I love it, too. It lets me know that I"m alive? (New thought). I often pull hairs out when I read - because I"m concentrating and everything else turns into a fog. I read several chapters of a book last night and only caught myself pulling once. (I normally don't notice I'm pulling until the ouch hits - it's on an unconscious level.) But I held my stuffed animal and each time I'd stroke a hair (head hair last night), I'd remove my hand from my hair, stroke the stuffed animal's fur and I her that I was there. "I'm here." it seems to be very calming. I'm not afraid of getting so into thinking that I can't get back; so I think my fear is external - fear of punishment for being daydreaming. I did get truly lost in thoughts once after the brain injury in 1998. I was looking for a word and inside my brain was like thousands of 3x5 cards with one word on each rolodex. They were spinning as I was looking for the word. I was more impressed with the process of thinking, the shock I knew that many words, that I lost track of what word I was looking for. My husband touched my arm and I was back in reality. He said I'd been gone for 45 seconds or so. It wasn't fearful, it wasn't comforting - it just was. My husband. If he notices me pulling hair or eating hair (gotta do something so nobody - i.e. Mom - finds them). He gently reaches over and holds my hand or take the hair out of my mouth. He's never said anything and until we started here I handn't talked about it to anybody. Told my counselor once that I had trichetillomania and she didn't persue it and I breathed a sigh of relief because I wasn't ready then. I will discuss it this week. Here's a diagram that I thought was really interesting on self-injury - I plan to print it out and think about it (while I tell my stuffed animal "I'm here" instead of pulling.) www.siari.co.uk/Self-injury-diagram1.htmThe women I'm creating friendships with are from a close group of women who pray together at church on Wednesday morning; I've been part of that group for several years and ready to be more vulnerable and open with a few. The main woman isn't from church, she is from O.A. She's been hospitalized for emotional illness and is the most accepting person I've met. They are people I'm not fearful to say - I haven't had a friend since I was 16, you might need to coach me if I'm doing it wrong - and know they won't laugh at me or reject me. I pray you find that in your life, too. The OA lady calls me about every day to see how I'm doing - I'm glad she's persuing me and patterning some behaviors that friends do so I can learn. Feel free to post any time about our mutual issue. It's nice I don't have to keep hiding from this. LookingUp
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 19, 2005 16:23:34 GMT -5
I'm still hurt by my husband's response. The pain is lessening and I'm analyzing (easier to analyze then feel the pain).
I had a long talk with my stuffed animal. We cried together, cussed together (shame on me for teaching an innocent stuffed animal the word (expletive), poop, jerk, asshole). Then we laughed, mocked, sneered, and blew raspberries. It felt better after I got some of the hurt out. Then we read.
Husband didn't come to bed until 1:45. I'm sure the game had been over by then. Wonder if he was porning - well, ain't my addiction - aint' my problem. Screw him. I came home from church and he had on his self-rightous face (hey, which one of us had been the church?) ;D His words were clipped and he was looking down his nose at me. I go in the house where he couldn't see me and very disrespectfully flip him off and stick out my tongue.
I bring down his Father's Day card and present. He opens it and says, "Well, two cards." and puts my card on the entertainment center with the one from his grandson. I roll my eyes where he can't see. He opens his two new shirts and mutters a thank you. I decide I will not stoop to his gutter level and react. I can't control his rude behavior, but I can control mine. We went on a one-hour Father's Day train ride and he loosened up a little, but was still as tight as a drumhead. We went out to eat and he was still off-putting but not as bad. I enjoyed my food and had enough left-overs for two days. Sheesh. I ate until full of the sweet and sour pork and fried rice; my husband ate some and there was a 9" round 2" tall aluminum container full in my doggie bag.
Last night my stuffed animal and I decided my husband was an assssssssssss-hole yesterday for not sharing his thoughts with me.
A - Annoying S - Selfish S - Stupid S - Sinful S - Snobbish S - Surreptitious H - Heartless O - Obscure L - Loutish E - Egotistical
I read in the book, "Hiding from Love" that expecting somebody to use skills that they haven't learned means that the person who does that is critical, judgmental and wrong. But the fact that he had interpersonal, self-disclosing skills when we were dating then lost them. I don't know if he's never had the skills and was full of BS when we dated or what.
I wasn't going to write a journal, because I didn't want to vent about my husband where he might find it. I told myself I wouldn't do this - that I would focus on me and my recovery. But sometimes a pain shared is a pain lessened. I feel so much more sane after this vent. I like the fact I may get feedback and a good reality check, too.
Husband, if you read this some day - please remember that I do love you - or I wouldn't be here with you trying to repair the damage we've done to our marriage. I'm just trying to cope with some very painful things. This really has no more to do with you then your porning does with me. I'm just trying to figure out who I am and how that works in a marital relationship.
I know what my counselor will say. That why would I expect THIS time to be any different. He's never yet opened up when I asked him something; so why do it and then get in a big pity party because he did the same thing again. I know, insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results. BUt part of me wants to have a close, sharing realtionship so bad that I'm willing to risk it and hope that it happens. But I forget - he won't/can't talk to me. I feel about as special as a pile of dog poop with flies on it. I hate this danged porn disease.
I hate realistic expectations - I much prefer pie in the sky happy ever afters. Screw reality when it hurts like this.
I"m still LookingUp to God.
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 20, 2005 10:34:27 GMT -5
Counseling I had a really great hour and a half with my counselor this morning. I don't know if she'd scheduled that much time but she gave that much time. She's leaving on her month vacation so won't need to check in for a while there.
We discussed some of my survival skills or coping skills that I needed as a child and how they are bugging me now. But one thing she pointed out is that the survival skills I chose are also some of the strengths that are helping me leave those behaviors behind. I was lucky because the survival skills that worked for me were ones that now help and don't hinder so much.
One coping skill was my fierce concentration - such a strong concentration that I needed to hurt myself so I could retain some focus on reality. That really helps me concentrate on thinking through the hard, painful and difficult things - which motivates me to want to heal.
She sees my faith as a survival skill and how that's helped me now. I don't quite see faith as a survival skill - to me, it's as necessary as air to breathe. After all, I am a spirit, I live in a body and I possess a soul (mind, will and emotions).
She saw my being the black sheep as a great asset now. Because everybody blamed me, I blamed me - but to survive I learned easy forgiveness - which doesn't mean I approve of what they did, just means I break that evil tie - so that's helped me in recovery. Plus, I don't have so many anger issues with people in the past because of the forgiveness. Now I'm mostly trying to make sense out of the survival skills and see which ones work for me and which ones don't.
Plus, being the black sheep, I'm not afraid of stepping out of the family's comfort zone and being independent. So I can recover without fearing loosing my place in the family tree. They thought I was weird and blame-worthy before, so their opinion of me hasn't changed, even though I'm made tremendous growth.
The coping mechanisms I see that hurt and didn't help: food addiction, hair pulling, co-dependency. Some day I'm sure I'll see the silver lining in them, too.
Trichotillomania
She thought a way to overcome the hair pulling would be to set a timer for 3 minutes and when I'm concentrating tell myself not to pull for 3 minutes and then the clock will ring and bring me back to reality. When I'm comfortable with 3 minutes, then move it to 4. If I can't make 3, then start at 2 or 1. I like my idea of talking whatever I'm thinking, but am concerned I'll become one of those little old ladies who talk to her groceries in the store! I had a neighbor lady who's freezer was in her shed east of our home - and her home was west of ours. One day she was carrying a frozen pie home. "I'm gonna cook you up. Yes, I am, watch you turn golden brown. Then I'm gonna' eat you for supper. What do you think of that?" My kids were primary grade and they were just hooting with laughter. So I don't want to be the neighborhood laughingstock. Will try the clock thing.
I felt such overwhelming anger and pain when we talked about this today. Here's an innocent baby who needs to cope with abandonment issues by going to a deep concentration mode so the outside world can't upset her serenity. Then the child gets spanked for going there - for daydreaming. I can't image the pain I felt as a child because what I feel now for that innocent baby just tears my heart out.
I realize Mom didn't set out to be a hurtful mother. But she had such limited resources (physical, emotional, financial) that she did the best she could. I know she tried for 11 years to have kids, tried to adopt and was refused. I know we were the highlight of her life. It must have been very painful for her to have a premature baby and not get to bond with that child, either. That's not excusing her - but checking reality and trying to see from the other side.
Other Stuf We talked about my Mom's surgery Thursday. I have a little disappointment that she may die. She will be 89 this month so doubt she'll be around another decade. But part of me just feels happy that I made peace with her while she was alive.
We talked about my budding friendship and how I'm fortunate because my friend is willing to coach me on how to do that. She was rather surprised when I told her I hadn't had a close friend since I was 16.
Future I asked how things might be when we move. My husband hates his family - especially his mother. Resents his brother. Thinks his late dad walks on water. I think his dad was an alcoholic, I think he cheated on his wife and I see his mother as a rather pathetic person - one who would have done a lot of growth through Al-Anon. She reminds me of so many women who first walk through the Al-Anon door. Walking on eggs, resentful, whiney, pity-parties, controller. No coping skills to deal with their husband's addiction. I was that person once when I came through the Al-Anon door for the first time; the women took me under their wings, tutored he, helped me, encouraged me, held up a mirror and helped me see me. I love that group. I'm so thankful for their input into my life.
The counsellor says it could get better or worse - that moving near my husband's family means my husband's historical demons will be right in his face. Whether he will retreat or work on that is unknown. Aaah, where's my crystal ball when I need one?
This may seem manipulative, but I want to pre-set a few "think about" moments with my husband. I know I need to work more on not seeing my father as my hero and mom as the b!tch on the broomstick. Because where was dad when Mom was abusing me? (before he died). Maybe instead of journaling as I work through that, get my husband to be my sounding board. He may learn something - and I won't loose anything. Then again, maybe he'll set his stubbornness for his family of origin even more pro-dad and anti-mom. But I can plant a seed.
Porn I went to my husband's computer, I turned it on. I went to history. I opened a page. There were hundreds of thumbnails of naked women. A shock of hurt and anger charged down my backbone. Tears came to my eyes. I quickly turned to God and ask him to strengthen me through it. Then I woke up. It was soooooooooo real that I was dazed for a minute because I didn't know it had been a dream.
I went to my husband's computer. I turned it on. I went to history. His history for 3 days was there on one browser; his history for 3 weeks was on the other browser. I thought he was porning on Sat night (maybe on some of the sex crap on cable) but he wasn't porning on the computer.
Strange Changes I've vented enough about my husband standing too close to women, especially women he works with and sometimes is rubbing their shoulders and arms when he talks. I find that so inappropriate - if he wants to rub shoulders and arms, he can rub mine since I'm standing there.
I think I journaled that last week we went to the bank and one of his co-workers was there and he stood several feet back and talked to her. Touched my arm a couple times but made no motion to move closer to her or to touch her. Stood about 4 feet apart. I thought that was great.
We went to an activity yesterday and my husband bristled like a prickley pear. His voice got hard, sounded totally hateful. One of the young girls he works with didn't even get a hello from him, he looked daggers at her. She was talking to other people but ignored him.
I'm trying to discern a jig-saw puzzle with half the pieces missing since my husband won't talk - but I wonder if he touched some young one and she blasted his ass off. Set a firm boundary and told him what an old perv he was. I wonder if he was written up at work for touching. I don't think he was suspended (has happened to a couple old guys who think they can touch the women co-workers) because his pay check hasn't fluctuated. Whatever it was, I like the change in him.
I wish he could open to me if something happened because I'd love to comfort him and let him know I love him anyway. Yes, I'd be hurt, but I'd rather hear from him then from the grapevine. I'd be hurt - but his not talking hurts, too. Hurt if you do and hurt if you don't.
LookingUp
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 21, 2005 16:10:26 GMT -5
No new insights into the world. Life is calm. Life is serene. Life is peaceful. Life is QUIET: This afternoon at 2PM the heavy road equipment moved from our street to somewhere else. Nothing in the house broke but the big equipment vibrations did manage to knock some food off shelves in the pantry and a few plaques off the wall. No dump trucks, No pavement removers, back hoes, no scoops, no steam rollers, no graders. No new pavement yet - just rocks. But the quiet is breathtaking. No beep - beep - beep - beep - beep - beep - from 7AM to 7 PM for six days a week like the past two weeks. (minus a blessedly quiet half hour for noon).
I don't know how my husband can work in a noisy environment - I suppose he's adapted after 33 years of it. I sure admire him for coming home with his gentle attitude - I'd probably be a hyper mess!
I've went 2 days without pulling out a hair - not one. I'm so proud of me.
I made my food plan and I've stuck to it. I'm proud of me.
I went out of my comfort zone and visited my new friend again. I'm proud of me.
Life is good.
I'm still trying to determine what the emotion is when I want to pull hair. All I can think if extreme tension. I'm learning I can feel my emotions sometimes through autonomous physical responses. I know my mid-back hair "stands on end" when I'm worried/fearful (I think that's the emotion - maybe more apprehension). I know my upper back hair "stand on end" when I'm angry. This is between those two areas - a thin horizontal area on my back - about directly behind my diaphragm. The feeling is very intense - almost to the point of being physically painful- anybody got hints? If I could label the emotion, it might help me work through where it came from.
LookingUp
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 22, 2005 22:04:22 GMT -5
I couldn't sleep and my husband and I made love - it was earthshattering. Nothing else shook today - the heavy equipment is gone from the road again. <happy sigh>
We have intercourse without Viagara - and he was able to orgasm that way. First time in two or three years. Things like that give me confidence that he's either quitting porn, cutting down or at least working on himself. I truly believe when one person grows and recovers - that it affects the rest of the family. My growth has helped the marriage, helped with one son and really revamped my relationship with abusive Mom.
My mom had a heart catheterization today. She is fine and they didn't need to put a stint in. She'll be in a couple more days for tests - they think something may be wrong with her lungs. She's 89 and we've talked about her future passing. She's ready to go to heaven and says she sometimes wonders why God chose her to have a long life. Her family's all gone, only a few long-time friends remain, she feels useless and says the only thing that keeps her going is because she is still able to live alone. Having been sick - I understand what she means. In some ways my sickness has brought us closer together. It's funny how there is a silver lining in all dark clouds if we just wait it out and use hind-sight.
My husband and I spent the morning internet house-hunting and calling realtors. Now I know why many homes have been on the market since we started looking over a month ago = and some for months - some of these bozos have not returned our phone calls, e-mails, pages, answering machine. Guess they don't want our business. One lady with a home we're really intereted in we've called her about a half dozen times and still haven't got the photos. Maybe if we wanted an executive mansion instead of a modest 3 bedroom retirement home they'd pay more attention. Tomorrow we go to the bank for pre-approval of a mortgage.
I made a food plan yesterday - so I stayed abstinent. Went to OA today - asked a lady to be my accountability partner. I'll send her my daily food plan and the next day let her know if I followed it or not. I haven't pulled any hairs out for two days. I'm learning to recognize that tense feeling so try to calm myself before I reach for my hair. Good to start recognizing triggers and stopping things before the momentum builds - much easier. It seems there's some correlation between food sobriety and not pulling.
Cuddled in bed and talked to my husband today. Discussed my perception of Dad. I see him as the hero - but he knew mom was spanking me with a razor strap several times a day and didn't stop it. He adds it up to culture of the time - that a man didn't dare treat on his wife's mothering or housekeeping skills back then. But I think I've been faulty in putting the full blame on Mom when Dad didn't try to stop it or protect me. My husband says since my Dad was my hero for so many decades that I should just leave things alone and enjoy that sweet memory. At least we're talking (I'm doing the disclosing and he's responding - so good progress.)
He seems very relaxed, happy and cuddley - not in a grabby, lustful way - but more playful, supportive, loving and enjoying each other. I like it. I'm glad I stayed even though leaving would have been easier.
I spent a couple hours last night meditating on Bible verses. That is so calming and energizing - it really makes the next day more serene. Why can't I discipline myself to spend some time daily doing that - it's a persuit I find very enjoyable. I must still have some deception somewhere to know what I want to do and still not do it.
I'm still LookingUp to God
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 24, 2005 12:45:12 GMT -5
I was a space cadet yesterday. I need to take one pill a day - think I'd remember it consistently? Not yet. Forgot the diuretic pill the day before so was bloated enough yesterday that I had brain fog (or maybe from the beefsteak the night before - or both).
My husband asked me at least a dozen times it I was mad with him. I'd tell him no and why I was spacy and a half hour later he'd be asking me again. Then it dawned on me - he doesn't believe my no means no because he isn't honest enough with himself to think others are honest with him. Or maybe not. but it's a thought.
He works 12-hour nightshift all weekend. I hate that. He gets grumpy by Sunday. Morning when he returns home use to be his porn time, so I have trouble sleeping because I fret.
The good side. Three weeks ago, I ordered 5 new CDs - 3 are Mike Bickle and they arrived today. I can quilt and listen to my new CDs while he's working.
THe company still hasn't called if he has the job - said they'd call him the end of MAY. He interviewed over a month ago and they made him promise to start work after Labor Day. He's suppose to give 4 months notice on this job. They are really squishing us. Yet, we both hope he gets that 2-year position. We continue to internet house hunt and try not to let the real estate agents get us too stressed - it amazes me how many won't return calls, pages or e-mails. Totally unprofessional. If my husband doesn't get the job, we're looking at a 5 bedroom, 3 bath, 2 efficiency apartment B&B on the Atlantic with a georgeous view of some islands. Complete with beauty parlor and tanning salon. The price amazed me $135K (US$). We'd need to look at their books to see if it pays for itself or not. Also need to check if Avalanches had happened in that area - hate to have our home pushed off in the ocean! Also want to see if there's salmon fishing in the area... as that would be a great calling card.
Not much else happening. I've been food abstinent for 4 days - except for a handfull of my husband's potato chips this afternoon before he went for his nap.
LookingUp
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 24, 2005 20:46:26 GMT -5
Second post of the day. I just blew my food abstinence. Doggone food addiction is so sneaky. I was feeling sad because DH works night. Well, he works 7 night shifts a month - so I should be used to it after almost 7 years of marriage. I was full from my supper - then ate FOUR Dempster's multi-grain bread with Cheeze Whiz sandwiches - justified it that it was okay because they were open face. How stupid do I have to be to fall for the deception. Especially since I wasn't even hungry. It's because of this these types of things that I am understanding and compassionate when my husband messes up. Doesn't mean I'm not angry - but it helps me put it in a different perspective. Except for the grace of God, I'd be a PA/SA, too. With my childhood, it's surprising I'm not!
Why there is bad/evil in the world
I was listening to my new CDs and quilting. I don't do that often enough because I want to stay near my husband to monitor him. Another dumb addictive thing. But back to my topic.
The more I start to grasp God's love for me, the more I realize that bad/evil is necessary. If everything in life was easy, happy, joyful, serene with no rocks in the path of life - then following God would not bring us to understand what Christ went through to redeem mankind. Thus we'd miss the depth of his unfailing love toward us. By evil things happening to us, we get a teensy, weensy enlightenment of what Jesus had to go through. He was despised, rejected, humiliated, abused, beaten, had an illegal trial, was shamed, and was finally nailed stark naked to a cross for the wold to see while he bore the sin of the whole world - and had his Father turn his back on him. Thank God I haven't had to go that far. But I've had minor similarities in my life. But it seems the past year or so when the adversity is over, I feel more loved by God and more self-acceptance because of it.
One of the things I respect about my husband is he never once made me feel bad when I was recovering from the brain injury. When I was verbally cruel to myself for dumb things - like trying to cook in plastic and starting the kitchen on fire - he never once acted upset but only acted relieved that I was not hurt. Then he would take me in his arms and not let me bad-mouth my inabilities and shortcomings.
Seeing him stand by me with deep love, compassion and helpfulness brought me into a deeper relationship with God.. and with my husband. Knowing he was devoted to me through the hard time helps me feel unshaken in his ability to love me - even in the bad times now - like when he wouldn't go with me to the doctor.
But moving that to a spiritual scene. God could say one word and stop evil things from happening, but if he did, then how would he ever know we would be devoted to Him during the good times and the bad times? It's easy to love God when things are going our way and life is a bed of roses; but when things cause us pain, humiliation, sorrow, grief and life feels like a bed of thorns - then our love and devotion is put on the line. Am I a rainy day believer or am I truly sold out to God.
I love the book of Job. He lost all his children, his servants, his home, his cattle, his fields and finally his health. His friends were argumentive and judging him and his wife was nagging (give her a break, she was grieving, too). Yet he stood firm in his commitment to the Most High. He went through the grieving process - he was not in denial of the pain he was in; but he knew the ultimate source of his comfort was God.
I pray that next time when adversity comes that I hang on tighter to God's hand instead of leaning so heavy on my emotions and pity party.
I'm still LookingUp to God
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 26, 2005 19:28:33 GMT -5
I feel really sad that disagreements have came to the point that some people from both sides chose to leave the board. I will miss some of these people greatly because of the input they have had into my own recovery.
This situation made me remember when I was 15 and got my driver's license. Several of us girls were sitting in our living room discussing things. One of the questions brought up was "you're driving down the street, your breaks go out. A 5 year old is playing with their ball in the street and an old lady on a walker hasn't made it quite across the street. You will hit one of them - which one do you aim for (or try to miss)." I said I'd hit the kid because kids heal fast and old people have a lot to give to society because of their wealth of wisdom accumliated. I felt that had the best chance both would recover. Some felt the old lady and some felt the kid. When they left, my mom backslapped me across the face and sent me to my room for having low morals and said she hoped I was sterile for feeling that way about hitting children with a car. I didn't have low morals - I had a differing opinion.
That's what I saw happening here. Not recognizing each person is entitled to an opinion - even if it's different than ours. But, just like mom getting physical for a differing opinion - we shouldn't get hostile and humiliate others because their opinion is different.
I think the admins/mods came up with a good alternative with adding a place for SAs only.
I've felt so dissatisfied with my life the last few days. I'm not where I want to be with God. I want to feel more desperate for Him and his Word. Right now, I feel content to be his child - but I don't feel that despearation for Him like you feel when your beloved is apart and you're desperate to be in his presence again. Like when we were dating. I want that same eagnerness to be together to permeate my relationship with God. Just as sometimes I take my husband for granted - I feel I'm taking my relationship with God for granted and not giving it the quality time it needs to flourish and grow.
With that note - I'm off to read my Bible and pray while my husband is at work and I can get LOUD!
Except for a slip on Thursday - I've been food abstinent for six days. I can understand the guys that post "I slipped" - it's so easy to turn back to your addiction; and my only excuse was laziness and self-deception.
LookingUp
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Post by whoami on Jun 26, 2005 19:53:42 GMT -5
Hey LU, yours was the first post I checked...What's up about disagreements making people leave? Guess I've missed some things in my time absent. So, I will go read. Just wanted to say Hi.... I don't get very loud, but I feel like kind of stingy stealer from God, too, and I want to quit being such a user..............Hugs.............
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 26, 2005 19:55:58 GMT -5
Hi whoami,
Hi to you, too. I think you'll discover the gist of the issue when you read on the public posts. You're lucky you missed it, it left me feeling very unsettled. But I don't run off easily - especially in light of the tremendous good this site has done for my recovery.
LookingUp
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Post by larus on Jun 27, 2005 13:52:13 GMT -5
hi LookingUp, But I don't run off easily - especially in light of the tremendous good this site has done for my recovery. p I am glad you feel about this the way you do and I think you found the right words in your Recovery thread. I am not going anywhere either. Tried that once, didn't like it . There is still lots to learn here. Best to you, Larus
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 29, 2005 14:26:40 GMT -5
Attack of the killer sausage
It's seldom I make the traditional foods from my childhood because I don't eat a lot of animal protein and my husband doesn't like those foods he wasn't raised with. He's working days and I decided to have one beef sausage cooked in sauerkraut. The sausage is made in our grocery store and is very delicious and seasoned very nice.
I cooked my meal and had a bite of sauerkraut. Then I cut a small slice off the sausage - stuck it in my mouth when the phone rang. I grabbed the phone on the third ring after barely getting the sausage chewed and swallowed. THe heat of the spice hit me at the same time I said hello. "Hello. Oh, my God, my mouth is on fire. AAAAAAh, AAAAAAH" exhaling and inhaling trying to get the burn to stop.
I'm so thankful it was my husband on the other end. Of course, had it not been him, that may have gotten our name off the list of people for phone-surveys, give to our fund-raiser, and trying to sell us stuff.
Apparently they hadn't mixed the spice well in the meat because the rest of the sausage was good.
Don't know why I journaled that - but it was funny in an an awkward sort of way at the time. Sure made my hubby laugh. I love to hear him laugh again - he's been so sober-sided for so long.
The Sauerkraut Cure
I don't know if I've posted on here how frustrated I get at my husband for coming to bed after smoking a cigarette. I quit smoking in January 1977 and smoked a couple in 1998 while we were dating - other then that I've been tobacco sober which means sometimes I have to still white-knuckle when the urge is present. But the smell of his cigarettes in his long hair and beard both nauseate me and make me want to smoke. Then to have him wanting to cuddle while he stinks like an ash try is really disgusting.
Every few months, I've explained how disrespected I feel when he comes to be smelly and how that reopens my tobacco craving while it makes me nauseous. Each time he says he understands and he does better for a few days until he goes back to his old patterns. I ask him a couple months ago how he'd feel if I came to bed smelling of sauerkraut. The smell of it nauseates him. He said he wouldn't like it and understood that I feel the same way about tobacco smell.
He crawled into bed the other night and the tobacco stench was really fresh and strong. I doubt it had been over 2 minutes since he smoked - calm night so no wind to blow the smell away from him (he smokes outside only). I asked him if he wanted to make love and ---- this is the best part --- he said yes. Not a reluctant yes like he'd just consented to take out the garbage, but an excited yes like I'd told him he just won the lottery. What an ego boost for me. THen I told him I'd be right back.
I came to bed smelling of sauerkraut. I thought about rubbing a little juice on my face but didn't go that far - just opened a can and chewed a couple mouthfulls. Then grabbed him for a big smacker kiss. He was taken aback for a minute but soon adjusted. Did you know tobacco stench and taste isn't very noticable over the flavor of sauerkraut?
I'll discuss the lovemaking later, but afterwards I told him that at first I felt like I was doing a "get even" by eating the sauerkraut; however, during the first kiss I didn't feel angry, I didn't feel resentful, I didn't feel like he'd been rude to me. We were now on even ground. We both stunk and loved each other anyway. It was so nice to not feel resentful - it really made me feel more loving and generous in my love-making.
Last night he smoked before bed; but he ran a face cloth over his beard and brushed his teeth before he came to bed. Gotta' love that man. Now I wonder why it took me YEARS to come up with a creative solution when he couldn't/wouldn't hear my words that I felt disrespected by his stench.
We may have to have another dose of sauerkraut to get to a full cure - if he slides, but it's nice to know I have some options.
Love Making
It gets better and better. The ED is still present, but it's not an issue since we're connecting emotionally. When we're done I feel totally loved and totally satisfied and totally happy. Of course, it would be nice if the ED would totally go away, but if it doesn't, I think I'll adapt and won't grieve what isn't. That's progress; I didn't know for a long time if I could adjust to permanent ED but I think I can now.
Emotional Connection During Sex
I've mentioned that I realized I have trouble staying out of la-la land and I'm training myself to stay connected with my husband. After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. When I caught myself slipping into fantasy - I wasn't sure how to pull myself back to reality. But, for me it finally became easy. I just thank God for a husband who wants to please me. It's hard to be in fantasy while talking to God - he puts me back in reality really quickly.
I also found that I use to be a moaner, and now I'm more of a talker. "Oh, honey, that feels good." "Oh, darling, I love when you do that. blah, blah. But I realize that helps me stay more in reality, too. I also noticed that my husband made a few noises and said a few words as I was pleasing him - usually I don't know if he's dead or alive, he's so quiet and still. It was nice to hear some verbal feedback - really brought out the "best" in me; or maybe that's the "beast" in me!
I also found if we use positions where we're face to face during my first orgasm, then I stay connected if we use another position afterwards. We may have to change our normal "sequence" to help me stay connected.
The Silver Lining
Of course, I'm not thankful for his porning; but good things have come out of the bad. I've learned about me. I've learned I don't have to go to fantasy during sex because I can plan for reality and keep myself there. I've done a LOT of growth because of his porning that I wouldn't have had otherwise.
The Bible promises that "all things work together for good." A year ago when I came here dazed, confused and shriveling inside from the pain - I didn't think anything good could come from his porn. But something tood has come out of it for me.
I've also learned more tolerance, compassion, and to not control stuff that isn't mine. I've gain self-esteem and self-acceptance to a greater degree then ever before. I've learned tough love and how to set boundaries and am getting more proficient at turning things over to God that aren't mine to manage. Although I'm heartsick I had to go through porning (third marriage with porn and the other two with physical adultery, too), I'm so thankful that this time I'm getting something out of it - something besides hurt and heartache. Something that makes me more me and not less me.
LookingUp
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Post by LookingUp on Jun 30, 2005 15:45:41 GMT -5
I posted this in the General Thread, but wanted to keep part of it here so I know where to easily find the positives I've seen in my husband. HistoryWe had our last D-Day just before Christmas. He said he will recover but do it his way. He did read one of Carnes books and I think he is recovering solo - no group or web group or counseling. He also apologized and admitted he had no idea how much he was hurting me (apologies are rare, so I think he truly meant it.) He does not want to talk about it and I know I can't force him; so I can only evaluate his recovery by the positive things I see: - He seldom objectifies me
- He connects with me when we make love
- He stands a proper distance when talking to women and isn't touching their arms and shoulders or making innuendos.
- He can get an erection without medication and we've even managed penetration for short periods during foreplay. Before even medication didn't work any more.
- He acts happy when I suggest we make love (still doesn't take the initiative but no longer acts like I asked him to clean the toilet with his toothbrush.)
- He's connected to me during lovemaking and not staring at the closet.
- He doesn't clean his computer's cache and I haven't walked into the room to see him closing computer windows or changing television channels.
- He doesn't lock the door if I leave the house; so he doesn't have the extra 15 seconds for me to unlock it to come inside.
- About 50% of the time, he's going to bed when I do instead of staying up hours later or hours earlier so he could get up before me.
- He still has grumpy spells which I presume are times he's fighting the urge - but they are less frequent and shorter duration.
- He seems more alert, generous and willing to talk about day to day stuff without getting irritiable or easily offended.
- He's more willing to spend time doing things with me.
- He doesn't encourage me to go take naps but encourages me to spend together time.
Because of these changes, I think he's made progress and possibly had a few slips but overall is healing. LookingUp
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Post by LookingUp on Jul 2, 2005 0:02:10 GMT -5
Shaken Husband Syndrome
I've heard of shaken baby syndrom; well, tonight I would have loved to have invented shaken husband syndrome. Shaken him until his teeth rattled and his tight brain cells loosened up and functioned.
The few times we went to joint counseling, she said she'd never met anybody who can dance around an issue and ignore it like he can. I'm starting to see that more and more and seeing my responses to it. So maybe I need a Shaken Wife Syndrome, too - shake myself because I keep doing the same behavior - trying to get him to talk - and getting the same response - him dancing away from talking - and then me getting upset.
What happened. We went to watch the fireworks. Since those things never get started on time, we had time to talk. Because of the wind, they apparently canceled it. We waited for an hour past the projected start time and never even heard a fire cracker so went home. But while we had that time together, I thought it would be a good time to get to know him better and to become better known by him. Bonding time.
I ask when he'd like to start the little repairs to get the house ready for selling. His reply was rude, gruff and the tone let me know it was a hands off. Said he'd been thinking. Well, it's been almost 6 weeks that he's been thinking and there's only 5 weeks left of summer to do the repairs. I asked how the thinking was coming - if he had any preliminary conclusions of when/what to do. But I didn't learn a doggone thing. The stalling tactic to avoid talking worked great - again.
But what I hear is "You're not important enough to communicate with. You're only worth excuses and you're not worth talking to. You're so worthless to me that I'd rather play with your brain then try to connect to you. You're such a looser I don't want to know you or be known by you."
I next ask since he's retiring, what's his opinion of growing old. His reply was he wasn't old, he'd ask a 40 year old guy he worked with. The joking tactic to avoid talking worked great - again.
But what I hear is "You're not important enough to communicate with. You're only worth joking and you're not worth talking to. You're so worthless to me that I'd rather play with your brain then try to connect to you. You're such a looser I don't want to know you or be known by you."
Next I ask how he considered spiritual maturity in a Christian. His reply was questioning what I meant by Christian. What I meant by maturity. The get more information before he'd talk method to avoid talking. Since we've had the question of what do I mean when I say Christian dozens of time - he knows what I meant. Or, he could have asked, "Have you changed your definition of what you mean by Christian since last time we talked?" The old run-around-the-definitions tactic worked great - again.
But what I hear is "You're not important enough to communicate with. You're only worth verbal chases and you're not worth talking to. You're so worthless to me that I'd rather play with your brain then try to connect to you. You're such a looser I don't want to know you or be known by you."
I next said, Trying to talk to you is like pulling teeth. I didn't cry, I didn't scold, I didn't carry it on. I just stated what was my realty.
But it certainly discourages me from wanting to have any communication with him. If we can't talk, then why be married. Then I wonder what I'm doing wrong so he won't communicate with me. What kind of looser am I that my husband doesn't even want to have a conversation with me?
We talked so good when we were dating. I thought he was one of the best communicators I'd ever met. Since he quit talking, I've asked if he felt I'd betrayed confidences so he didn't feel safe talking to me and he assured me that never passed his mind. I asked if I'd ever belittled his thoughts or made him feel uncomfortable and he assured me that hadn't happened. So the only thing I can conclude is he doesn't like me enough to want to communicate with me.
So, what's a realistic expectation? I feels like being verbally alone, never known or knowing, in a marriage made for two individuals with almost no bonding.
Guess my early pms is starting to show - the pity party is showing up right on time. I'll be so glad to go through menopause and I hope that ends these low cycles.
LookingUp
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