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AmazingGrace
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Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like ME.
Joined: Sept 2007
Gender: Female 
Posts: 130
Location: SO of a PA
|  | AmazingGrace's Journal
« Thread Started on Sept 4, 2007, 10:35am » | |
Hi—
I’m new to the board. I found it on August 29, the morning after my husband’s latest slip-up. Just thought I’d introduce myself and share our history. I’ve appreciated the things I’ve read so far.
For my own benefit, I’ve written out a bit of a history. It's pretty frank, so it may be triggering.
[trigger]I’m 35. My husband and I have been married 12 years, but we dated for 4 ˝ years before that. We met the fall of my freshman year in college. We went on one date, but I wasn’t interested in a “real” relationship—I’d just left behind a summer love and had always promised myself I wouldn’t become a freshman “statistic” at our Christian college—one of those people who find a serious relationship the first quarter of college and are glued together and gazing at each other (and oblivious to the world and their educations) forever after.
DH was a really shy person. Painfully shy. He had difficulty making eye contact with me, even. But he was consistent—about every two weeks he’d call me up and we’d talk for a few hours on the phone. He was a nice guy, but not really the kind of person I found myself naturally attracted to.
We had mutual friends, though, and ended up doing things on the weekends and even going on a couple of road trips together, so by Spring quarter we finally started dating officially. By then I had gotten to know him better. He was a hard worker and a considerate person, had a funny sense of humor and really seemed to like and admire me.
When we were dating, I had pretty strong sexual boundaries, which he consistently tried to push past. Specifically, I didn’t think it was appropriate for him to touch my breasts. THE DAY we officially started dating, we were kissing on the couch, and he reached up and touched me, and I had to stop him. This was so bewildering to me. With my first boyfriend (of course, that was in seventh grade) we hadn’t held hands for 8 months, and then kissed (just a peck on the lips) a month or so later. But because I was a virgin, there were things I had definitely planned to save for marriage. I didn’t know then that his view of sexuality was already warped by P & MB.
I had been a MBer as a child & teenager which, once I figured out what I was doing, had always made me feel guilty. I felt a little like I wasn’t a virgin and that any decent guy wouldn’t want to marry me. I remember vividly the day when we were in the park & I finally got up the nerve to tell him about my “past”—it makes me smile a little, as I’d kissed just two other guys and he was only my second boyfriend.
He’s not much of a crier, but he actually teared up and said, “Yeah, I do that, too.” I guess I’d expected my future husband to get mad and me and then possibly forgive me, so his response was certainly not what I expected. Little did I know his emotional response was because he was already deeply embedded in M & P.
There were a few situations during our dating years that made me uncomfortable and I really should have seen them as red flags. Mr. Amazing (despite the fact that we both were virgins & planned to stay that way until we got married) started a condom collection. He picked them up at gas stations on road trips. Eventually he was getting catalogues & sample films from some company that sent him packages in brown paper. When I found out about it, he apologized profusely and we had a little bonfire in the yard of his rental. I thought that was the end of it, especially since we were getting married soon.
We were virgins when we got married. After how totally horny I had felt at a teenager (it wasn’t easy to make it to marriage without having sex), it was definitely a little bit of a painful and disappointing experience for me—turns out the birth control pills I was taking made intercourse burn. It took me a whole year to go off them and figure out they were the culprit, but that first year already messed our sex lives up a bit. Because DH is actually a pretty kind and gentle guy, he hated to cause me pain, and so we probably had sex about once or twice a week, max.
In our first year of marriage, we rented some explicit movies (mostly “foreign” films, so I didn’t quite consider them “porn.”) I also discovered DH had quite the collection of R-rated vidoes he’d copied during his teen years. Because they didn’t affect me in quite the same way, I didn’t realize the extent of his “problem.” They stirred me up inside and got me “ready” for sex, but I didn’t watch them on my own, and always connected P with our sex life. After getting that out of my system (I kind of felt a little dirty after using someone else’s sexual experiences to get myself going) I stopped renting that kind of movie.
Year two of marriage we got cable, which included some “premium” channels. DH worked nights, so my favorite (not) experience from that year was waking up in a panic in the middle of the night to loud voices downstairs. With my heart still racing, I tip-toed downstairs only to find that he was taping porn and hadn’t turned off the tuner the night before. I confronted him about it, and assumed that would be the end of it.
That year we also got a computer (and internet) because I needed it for my work as a teacher. If I had known then what I know now. . .
We were arguers the first few years of marriage. He’s a yeller and door-slammer and swearer, but though I’m calmer in the face of conflict I do think I instigated my share of arguments. Of course, he’s the one who several times yelled so much he was hoarse the next day.
But when we had conflicts, I’m sure he used P & M to medicate his feelings. One time after we’d argued and I’d actually headed to bed, I couldn’t sleep and came to find him to talk. He was sitting in front of the computer with his pants around his ankles. The thing that made me furious was that he sat there while I stared at him in disbelief. And when I left the room, he stayed there. Didn’t follow me. Didn’t apologize.
I read this book called “Power of a Praying Wife” in about year three, and when I stopped being so negative, our conflicts really decreased. But it didn’t change our sex lives & it didn’t get rid of the porn.
So I was aware that my husband occasionally looked at porn & masturbated. I just didn’t realize how deep it went, but it definitely affected our sex life. Although he’d really kept pushing the boundaries, we hadn’t been sexually active before marriage, but the irony for me was that we really weren’t sexually active after marriage, either. He was always too distracted, hadn’t thought about it, etc. He was full of excuses.
And I was quick to blame myself and my problems. I gained weight after we got married, so I assumed he wasn’t as attracted to me. After year one’s sex problems, we never really recovered. I always had a million things to blame myself for our inactive sex life, but now, in retrospect, the things he said (and the way he responded or didn’t) really make me question. Some of the most “priceless” were—
• “You want to have sex three times a week? It’s just because you’ve heard that’s “normal”, isn’t it?”
• “I don’t have erectile dysfunction, and stop talking about it.”
• “If you just lost some weight, maybe I’d want sex more.”
• And the kicker—“I guess I just don’t want sex as much as other men do.”
A number of times during our marriage I confronted him. I’ve always been more computer savvy than him—so I found pictures in the cache, sites on the history, pictures saved on 3 ˝ inch discs (hmm—that was a while back). But each time I found things in a particular place on the computer & showed them to him (to prove to him I had the evidence) he just got better at covering his tracks. He renamed links, erased the cache, and cleared the history. (Now I think, why did I not notice there was never more than two or three days in the history, even though it was set to record 21?)
Each time we got a new computer, I’d ask him again to end his porn life. I didn’t want to have anything inappropriate on our hard drive. I’m a teacher—if someone were to confiscate our computer and find pictures of 16-year old nudists on it, there’d be a problem.
I never thought of the porn as an addiction. I figured it was the same with him as with me. Once I decided that wasn’t something that I wanted to have as part of my life, I didn’t rent that kind of movie anymore. I didn’t go to those sites anymore.
But sure enough, every six months or year I’d find something again. Bookmarked inappropriate sites, history he’d forgotten to erase. Every new computer ended up with porn on it. Of course, if I ever confronted him on it, he would turn it around on me. “Well, if you lost 70 pounds, I might actually be attracted to you. How can you insist I change this behavior when you (Miss Holy Christian) can’t even change yourself? You overeat, you snack at night—how is this any different?” And I always backed down from my confrontation because I guess I felt he was right.
We dealt with infertility. After year one I went off birth control, and we’ve never used anything since then. Any time I talked to my doctor about it, she would just say, “Well, if you’re having regular sex, pregnancy happens.” Couldn’t quite tell her that with having sex once a week, I didn’t think pregnancy was all that likely.
When we adopted our son, I really thought I made it clear that this was the end, but sure enough, he kept P & M-ing. I should have realized he was a PA—and that it wasn’t a function of his love or respect for me that he wasn’t stopping the “habit.”
Ironically, the thing that finally got me to hand him an ultimatum began this year. I turned 35 in January of this year. This birthday actually got me thinking about our sex life & relationship—cause I’ve always heard that old statement that women reach their sexual peak at age 35. And we had gotten to the point where we were having sex once or twice a month, tops. The thought in my mind was—how was I supposed to be reaching my sexual peak when I wasn’t getting any practice?
I attended a few Bible studies as well that really convicted me of things in my own life I needed to change. I addressed my own compulsions—obsessive computer-game playing, too much crime-TV watching, staying up late at night, reading novels and snacking while I read. I started exercising again, working on losing weight. But I just got this sense that something in my home was keeping me from true blessing. Some nights I felt frightened, and I thought at times that something evil was entering my home because of Mr. Amazing’s habit.
DH & I were living separate lives—he works nights & sleeps days. On his nights off I’d be upstairs watching TV or knitting or doing things on the computer while he read downstairs all evening. When I went to bed at night, he’d head upstairs to the computer. There were times I’d offer myself to him, initiate sex and he’d say “I hadn’t really thought about it”—as he headed upstairs to his Porn girl-friends.
It all came to a head the first week of April. At the end of March I’d found porn on the computer yet again, so I finally bit the bullet and installed Net Nanny. He was mean and nasty to me all week (“Who do you think you are, my Mommy? Do you think this is going to make me want to have sex with you more?). He was more irritable and angry, but I just figured I’d finally put a stop to something he’d liked and he’d get over it. I’d stopped playing the computer games that bothered him so much, I was going to bed earlier, I was working on losing weight—how would this be any different?
Friday the 6th of April we went to an amazing event. We’re Christians, but we celebrated an authentic Jewish Passover Seder that just added so much meaning to Easter and the Last Supper. It was awesome. We dressed up in Bible-time clothes, sat with about 8 other people around a table on the floor, ate the flat unleavened bread and “bitter herbs” (horseradish and parsley) and read the prayers. The woman who led the Seder shared how this was to symbolize the cleaning of our hearts. After installing Net Nanny a week before, after sitting next to DH and hearing and reciting such amazing, inspiring words, I was sure this would be the turning point. We were cleaning out our home and cleaning out our hearts.
Although DH didn’t work Friday night, he must have stayed up late, because he slept in on Saturday. And slept. And slept. And slept. I even put my son down for a nap with him at 2 pm. And while my two boys were in bed, I went up to the computer. A site had been left open—something with pictures of an actress—totally decent pictures (but still another woman—whose picture he’d put on our desktop). But when I clicked on one of the links at the side of the site, it led me to a P site. Net Nanny hadn’t blocked it.
When I clicked on the history, I didn’t see porn sites, but I saw a whole bunch of E: “random porn name here” listed on the history. E: is the CD rom drive—where would DH be keeping CD’s of porn? It didn’t take long to find them. Tucked in between every page or two in his folder in the file drawer were CD-roms. I ended up with a stack about 3 inches high. It didn’t take sticking more than one or two into the CD drive & looking at the screen caps of each video for me to get a sick feeling in my stomach. I wrapped them up with packing tape and tossed them in the garbage outside.
I’d been so blessed the previous evening, I couldn’t imagine what would have compelled DH to P & M the same night! How could he go from an event about becoming clean and holy and preparing ourselves for the Holy Spirit—to that same night coming home and looking at porn?
I was so shaky I went down & wrote in my prayer journal for a while. Then I went back upstairs and typed out this ultimatum note.
April 7, 2007
Dear Husband—
I don’t even know how to start this letter. I am angry and hurt—an hour or so ago I was furious and shocked. You’d left the Movie Actresses site open after putting ZD’s picture on our desktop, and I was surprised to see off-color links on the sides of the site. I clicked on one, just to see if Net Nanny was working effectively—and it wasn’t. That led me to look in our History section, where I saw a whole list of E: “random porn name here” sites that you had visited last night.
I wondered where you would be keeping CDs with pornography on them, which led me to a three inch thick stack of CD’s slipped in your hanging file. After looking at the list of names in only a few of them, it became very apparent to me that no matter what I do, I cannot keep you from finding & using pornography in my home.
I am now positive that you have an addiction to pornography.
I thought I spelled out my thoughts when I installed Net Nanny on the computer, but apparently, that’s not enough. Can I make it any clearer than this? I do not want pornography in our house. I do not want you looking at pictures or videos of nude or partially clothed women for the purpose of sexual stimulation. I do not want you masturbating and fantasizing about other women while I am downstairs sleeping, just minutes (or hours) after I willingly offered myself, your wife, as a real, live sexual partner.
I feel like you have invited Satan into our home. I feel like my effectiveness as a wife and parent and minister to others is being jeopardized by your choices.
Quite honestly, I don’t know what to do. I’ve got a few ideas, but obviously, this has to be a mutual decision.
1) Change to a day schedule. Your night work schedule seems to be unhealthy for both of us because we’re just not accountable to each other. I’m staying up too late at night & snacking, and you’re feeding your pornography addiction in the middle of the night. I’m beginning to wonder whether $5 an hour is really worth losing our marriage over.
2) Go to counseling. After 12 years of a dysfunctional sexual relationship, my sexual “hang-ups”/difficulties and your obvious sexual addictions, I don’t think we can deal with this on our own.
If you were having an affair with one woman, I wouldn’t stand for it to continue. If you were abusing Child, I would leave you in a heartbeat. You may not see it the same way as I do, but you are cheating on me. You are cheating me of a normal, healthy sexual relationship. You are stealing my self-worth as a wife. I am, quite simply, astonished by your stubborn insistence on continuing in a behavior that is so despicably sinful and so hurtful to me.
I have given you several chances. Every time we’ve purchased a new computer, I’ve viewed it as an opportunity for you to rid yourself of a bad habit. Every time I’ve discovered you in sin, whether through bookmarks in your “favorites” or the sites shown in our computer “history,” I’ve been disappointed in you.
I’ve unfortunately been naďve and oblivious to the extent of your addiction. But I will not continue like this. Despite how terrifying the thought is for me, I have to be willing for us to spend some time apart if you aren’t willing to change your habits. My parents would probably welcome me into their home for a few months, if taking some time apart is what it takes for you to realize how serious about this I am.
Do not try to turn this around on me. If you feel addressing my issues is a necessity, do so at a different time. Right now, we are talking about your pornography addiction and how it is affecting our marriage.
This has to stop.
I’m taking a little time away. I’ll be back by Child’s bedtime.
AmazingGrace
I had just printed the letter and grabbed my keys and was about to head out the door. I had hoped to leave before the boys woke up, but just as I was leaving DH walked out of the bedroom with a sleep hard-on, and as I walked past him he reached for my breast. I couldn’t believe the slime would actually try to touch me after what he’d done the previous night.
I slapped his hand away and hissed, “Get your hands off me. There’s a letter for you to read. I’m leaving. I’ll be back before Child goes to bed.”
I cried so hard as I drove away. Even though I still didn’t realize the full extent of his addiction, it was finally obvious to me that it wasn’t something he planned to quit & just needed a little encouragement on. I was so panicked at the thought that I’d given him an ultimatum. I worried about what my life was going to be. I cried for the sweet, innocent girl who had headed into this marriage, little knowing what she was in for. I cried for the images that are forever in my mind because I’d found them on the computer. I cried for our son—a father is the thing he wouldn’t have had with his birth mother, and here I was threatening to take away from him his Daddy!
I started just reciting scripture to myself—not even meaningful scripture—I think one was “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. . .” but I needed something to get me through.
I went to a park and walked by the river, finally finding a place where I could sit by the water, embraced by the roots of a strong old tree. I talked to myself, I talked to God, I talked to DH. I cried until I didn’t think it was possible to cry anymore.
The thing that really struck me in all that was the grace and forgiveness I already felt towards DH. Anger and sadness, yes. Disbelief and frustration. But this crazy feeling of mercy and pardon that I know can only come from God. And strangely enough, I had peace. Peace that if I did have to leave him that I would survive. Though I had started to wonder if that was too severe a reaction, and maybe I should take it back.
I didn’t know where to look for some answers, so I ended up going to a local Christian book store on my way home. There was a whole section of books on men’s spirituality, and I picked up a book called “Every Man’s Battle” by Steve Arterburn. But I totally wasn’t sure which would be the most helpful book. I picked up another book—called “The Secrets Men Keep”—and turned to the section on sexuality. It answered the question for me. A woman had called into their radio program and said that she’d found her husband in the sin of porn. Their response to her was—give him an ultimatum. Choose porn or me. And send him to an Every Man’s Battle event.
I know the second book was written by the same people, so you might just see it as self-advertising. But I just needed a second opinion, and I needed reassurance that my ultimatum was the right thing to do.
So I bought the book and headed home. When I got home, DH actually had the phone book open to the “counselors” section, so it was obvious he wanted to respond and to change.
Honestly, I wish I’d taken him up on the counseling right then. I was a little nervous about finding a counselor, and figured we could do a little self-help. After all, DH is a very shy person, and just the thought of counseling gets him in a panic. Since then he has actually refused to go to counseling.[/trigger]Continued in response
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AmazingGrace
Full Member
member is offline
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like ME.
Joined: Sept 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 130
Location: SO of a PA
| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #1 on Sept 4, 2007, 10:35am » | |
Continued from the first entry--
[trigger]I had bought the book for DH, but I read it while he took care of Child, fed him supper, gave him a bath. I was pretty much out of commission, crying as I read this book—the floor around the couch was littered with tissues. It was a very frank, straightforward book about P & MB, adultery, and even lust—giving men a plan for changing their lives.
And I got a lot out of it too, reassurance and wisdom that I really needed right then.
• My husband’s secret sex life is not “about” me. As much as it may affect me, he is not doing this because he’s angry at me or because he doesn’t love me. It is temptation, it is sin, but men are able to “compartmentalize” their lives and actually feel like their P & MB habit is not affecting the other parts of their lives.
• There is hope for people who use P & MB
• I was not wrong for asking for sexual morality from my husband
• I had given him a gift of the most sacred parts of my life, and he had polluted them by his choices.
• He had made promises to me when he married me—one of which was the implicit promise that marriage with him would be better than being alone.
• I’m God’s daughter, and He does not take it lightly when anyone mistreats His children.
• I didn’t have to trust him. He had to prove himself trustworthy if he expected that from me.
• The hardest bit of advice/info was that men do receive and express their feelings of love through sexuality more than conversation (like women do). The authors advised that as their husbands attempted to make a change in their lives, a wife could be like “methadone” to a recovering addict. That as much as I didn’t feel like ever letting him touch me again, if I wanted him to feel loved and connected, our sex life needed to become one of my priorities.
• And the most eye-opening statement—that men have a pretty regular need for sexual release, typically about every 48-72 hours (2-3 days). That’s a definite “I told you so” moment for me. If we were having sex every 2 – 3 days, there would be my three times a week. I also appreciated them comparing the need for sex with my need for conversation and the way my hormones affect me. Sure, I could think of my husband as some defective animal who only “loved” me when he was in “heat”—but there are times I feel hornier than others, and I wouldn’t want DH to say, “Oh, you only want sex because of your hormones.” And my need for conversation is pretty regular. How would I feel if he said, “Oh, I’ll talk to you once a week—I know that’s the primary way you give and receive love, but it’s not my thing, so I’ll see you in seven days.”
After Child was in bed, we talked. I think I’d really frightened DH by my response. For the last two or three years we’d been very “happy”—living in our separate worlds. We’d do things as a family once in a while. We both love Child, but he was pretty much all we had in common.
The conversation isn’t fresh in my memory anymore (it’s been four months) but I do remember two things DH said. He said that he would sit in church feeling unworthy of being there. And he said that at the end (right before the confrontation) it had gotten to the point where he was P & MBing every night when he wasn’t working. And considering that he works only three nights a week. . . He actually told me he took his PA into consideration when he got asked to work an extra shift. He actually didn’t want to work extra because he’d miss out on his p & mb.
I’ve got to give God some credit. He’d really surrounded me with a support system that has helped me make it through this so far with my sanity intact.
• A friend & prayer partner with whom I’d been meeting for an hour each week to talk and pray for each other. She and her husband were separated for a time because of her bi-polar disorder and credit card debt, so she has an amazing amount of grace for people in other challenging situations.
• A group of about 8 women in my Mom’s Bible study group—though I haven’t told them my DH is a PA, they’ve been supporting us through this “rough patch” in our marriage. We had just begun an awesome Bible study by Angela Thomas called “A Beautiful Offering.” She’s a divorcee, and every single lesson hit my heart and reassured me that despite my husband’s apparent disinterest in me, that God, the King, is “enraptured” by my beauty.
• A group of 3 other women in another Bible study I was attempting to begin. I ended up having just one attend for several weeks in a row, and it was an opportunity to open up to more people. One of them actually divorced her first husband, who was such an addicted PA that he went to jail for exposing himself to people and masturbating in his car. I just felt myself wrapped in the caring of other people. Praise the Lord for that.
• Some good books (Every Man’s Battle, Every Heart Restored, the Five Love Languages and Love and Respect—a book that has helped improve our marriage so we don’t fall back into the old routines of conflict, unkindness, and irritability.
So, where are we right now?
Well, I actually have a sex life, so I’m working on reaching that 35-year sexual peak.  Typically it’s every two or three days, an average of about 13 times a month—way up from our 1 or 2.
The sex alone has helped us feel more connected and has reduced his desire for porn, but it hasn’t taken it away.
He’s had numerous relapses. Of the ones I discovered, there were 7 P & MB nights in May, 6 in June, 2 in July, and 4 this month. Of course, these were all computer porn. I’ve since found that he was going back to his video collection as well.
We’ve had a pretty typical monthly blowup every month since April. I find out he’s back at it again, confront him, get really upset with him, go through all the emotions of anger and sadness and frustration and hopelessness. He seems to want to stop (but does nothing different).
I discovered that he was treating Net Nanny as a challenge and considered everything that made it through the filters as “rightfully” his, and as he kept complaining that I was trying to control him, I’ve really backed off—turned Net Nanny off, unistalled my “History Checker” software, stopped having our computer send us a Network report of what had been viewed. Really, he does need to choose to use those “tools”—but it needs to be his choice and not mine. I can’t be his Holy Spirit.
He saved a few videos on our hard drive, bought a few T & A films from eBay (found out about this last night).
He has a few pretty typical relapse triggers.
• When I’m having my period, though I have generously been “taking care of” him every third day even through my time of the month (man, I’m a catch!—or a whore, hard to say.)
• When I’ve been out of the house (three nights of taking Child to VBS, taking him swimming, out on a hike, decorating the home of a friend’s five-year-old who just tested clean of tumors—that was just 45 minutes)
• When I injure myself or get sick (sprained ankle, strained back, yeast infection)
The longest he’s gone is about three weeks. Right now he’s on day 4 of an attempt for 100. With this last confrontation, I told him he needs to change SOMETHING. He read the Every Man’s Battle book, but he’s really not applying their plan at all—bouncing and “starving” the eyes, working on putting up boundaries in the mind. Part of it is that it’s really a Christian book, and he’s never had a daily devotional life or been much of a pray-er. I’ve suggested and requested counseling, but his reaction has been so strong (here are his exact words)—“I would DIE. I might as well be dead. I would die INSIDE.” My reactions are varying. I know he’s shy, but is he trying to threaten me? Is he trying to scare me into backing off? He wouldn’t DIE, he’d be helped. But when he implies that it would kill his love for me or that he would kill himself, that’s not fighting fair. To be honest, there have been moments in the past few months where I was so sad and panicky that I thought I’d die. I didn’t.
The only real progress he’s made is that he’s slightly less secretive. The last couple of failures, he has come to me and told me about it so I’m not having to snoop. The truth is, I really have a strong sense of intuition, and I know about it before he even tells me, but at least he’s opening up those secret doors in his life.
I bought the “Ten Keys” book from here, and shared some ideas from it with him, but he really needs to take some ownership here (and read the book himself). I’m using “I NEVER use porn and masturbate NOW” to stop overeating and biting my fingernails (obviously, I had to rephrase it). He needs to use “I NEVER use porn and masturbate NOW” to stop using porn and masturbating!
I read this book called “Love and Respect” to attempt to improve our marriage, and I’ve been showing him a lot more unconditional respect. It’s a challenge, especially since he’s a PA. My disrespect for him in that area had colored every other area of our lives, so it’s been good to focus on the positives about him—and truthfully, there are a lot. I’ve been writing him “respect” notes each week. I’m due for another one, but with this most recent failure, I’m really scrambling to see things I appreciate about him.
Because he’s always comparing his porn addiction with my overeating, I (by my own choice) told him I would support him in this difficult time by addressing the things that are strong temptations for me. And I’ve lost 10 pounds since April (14 since February).
I just want to see equal work coming from his side. I’m doing everything I can to support him—making myself sexually available, trying to stay connected & communicating. Treating him respectfully even when it’s not the most natural emotion for me right now. I’m attempting to be more merciful and forgiving towards him (that only comes from God—who’s been merciful and forgiving to me). I’m focusing on the “log in my own eye”—by trying to work on my own issues instead of making him out to be the worse person in our relationship. I’m going to a counselor to help me separate myself from his addiction and not take it so personally.[/trigger]
What I’d like to see from him is:
1) He should spend daily time (10-15 minutes) reading and praying to strengthen his resolve and give him other ideas for resisting P & MB.
2) He needs to make a real effort to fix what his PA has broken—the intimacy in our marriage. Reading marriage books, spending time with me, praying together.
3) He needs to avoid “triggers”—some R-rated movies, YouTube, being awake at 4 or 5 on his nights off. Stay off the computer if I’m away.
4) He needs to ASK for Net Nanny, ASK for the Network report to go to our email, ASK me to put passwords on the computer so he doesn’t have access when I’m away from home. He needs to clean out his video collection.
5) He needs to make an effort to connect when he’s feeling weak and tempted. Instead of “unloading” on me after he’s acted out, he should bring his temptation and needs to me.
6) He needs accountability from other men. I want him to read and post on the no-porn board.
7) If he slips up again, as much as he thinks it will kill him, he will go to counseling.
My Recovery Plan includes:
1) Make sexual intimacy a priority.
2) Reduce my recovery time needed after a failure. Pray, sing, get out for a walk. Journal, talk, but don’t overwhelm him with my emotions, adding to his guilt and feelings of disconnection.
3) Don’t masturbate or watch/look at inappropriate things myself—avoid “checking up” on him in a way that tempts me.
4) Stop “snooping”—trust that he will tell me when he fails.
5) Avoid fantasies and emotional affairs. Don’t imagine my life without him or go back to the “what if’s”.
6) Don’t blame DH that I feel like I might be off the path God chose for me. God’s big enough to get me back on it.
7) Forgive DH. Daily.
8) Focus on the “logs” in my own life. Overeating, nail-biting, computer games, what I watch and listen to.
9) Forgive GOD for not steering me away from this relationship to give me a “perfect” husband. Realize I may be the only hands God has to make an impact in DH’s life for good.
10) Pray for DH.
11) Continue going to counseling.
12) Insist DH makes some sort of plan.
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AmazingGrace
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Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like ME.
Joined: Sept 2007
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Location: SO of a PA
| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #2 on Sept 8, 2007, 5:23pm » | |
September 8, 2007
Well, DH was p & mb free last night--I think this makes day 10 in our latest "round" in the journey that began in April of this year.
Though I've felt like we've been having more conflicts between us recently, which usually seem to give him an "excuse" to act out, he says he's been feeling fine about things between us. That's good.
I've been reading the journals of some recovering PA's. Some have been really encouraging, and others have discouraged me a little (when I seem them on a positive "roll" and then suddenly they have a slip or relapse).
Truly, I have to admire any man who decides this is worth working on and fighting. Temptation is never easy to resist. I've been working on myself, recently, and two of my biggest temptations have been snacking and biting my nails.
I've been nail-biting free for 10 days now.  Last night I was really struggling to keep my fingers away from my mouth. My nails had reached a length where they get dirty more easily, where they start to chip and break a little, and the urge to "trim" them with my teeth was pretty strong. Admitted my struggle to DH & he suggested "Why don't you cut them?" It was the perfect solution. After all, my goal isn't necessaily to have long fingernails--it's to stop biting them. Once I get past this habit/addiction, I think growing them out longer may be more of an option. But right now it's just too much temptation.
But as far as overeating goes, the last couple days I've struggled--I was really strong there for about a week. Hubby would bring up a plate of pie or a salad to the TV room, and I would just say no to myself--wasn't hungry, after all.
But Thursday night I went out to my friend A's home. She was injured in a car accident six months ago. Another friend was in the car in front of her--that friend lost her lower leg and was in a coma for two months. (The woman who veered into traffic from the other direction was killed in the accident). A has been having severe back pain for months, and decided to have back surgery on her broken sacrum.
Well, the surgeon slipped and severed three of the six nerves that control bladder, bowel, and sexual function. A (31) now has to catheterize herself and follow a regimen in order to control her bowels--but if her bowels are loose she's pretty much a prisoner in her home.
I took Child with me to go up to their farm-home for the evening, and on the way there stopped at a grocery store. For no reason at all picked up a couple of bags of m & m's & some "kid" candy--sour rainbow-colored jelly candy strips. I wasn't hungry. I was taking supper up for A & her family. But on the way there I ate a package of m & m's and half the candy strips.
Then I ate the rest on the way home.
And yesterday (Friday) as I was cooking supper, I couldn't stop snacking on the soup ingredients--broccoli & raw mushrooms (not that tasty, but not unhealthy) and raw dry spaetzle noodles (neither tasty nor healthy).
I had a smidge of rebellion in my heart, because I was completely aware that I was eating for no reason, and yet I continued. I'm sure I was feeling some sadness for A, and yesterday I was feeling stressed about a conversation I had with my neighbor--the one whose husband has a problem with p. I worried that I hadn't said the right things, and I really internalized my stress by eating.
http://lightwave.proboards48.com/index.c....read=1189191194
So I can understand how/why anyone (PA's included) slip back into addictive behavior, but it's so hard for me to accept when my husband does. I do tend to be forgiving (that's where my screen name comes from--God's Amazing Grace that helps me forgive when it's beyond me) but I wish it didn't bother me so much.
I didn't eat because I hated anyone or I wanted to punish them or make their lives miserable. It mostly affected me and the way I was feeling--the long term results are that I still have a body that I don't feel very attractive in, and that has an impact on my husband and our intimacy.
But sometimes PA just seems "worse" and less forgiveable than overeating--though it's the same emotions that cause it, and it has a similar effect on our intimacy.
Hey, I know this isn't an OEA board (Overeaters Anonymous) but it works!
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doppelganger
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| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #3 on Sept 9, 2007, 8:08am » | |
hello amazinggrace,
thank you for sharing your story and your experience, it really helped me, as a porn addict, to want to recover even more.
If you allow me I would like to make some comments. I see that you try so hard to help your husband and to straighten out your marriage, but it occurred to me that you are a little bit alone while doing this, it is like you become the mother of your husband: Reading books about his addiction, going to counselor, keeping an eye on him, making plans for him. And doing all this stuff gave you a lot of stress, which manifests itself in your behavior, like eating too much, biting your nails and playing computer games. Also you try to deal with these bad habits too. So you are carrying both your burden and your husbands. Maybe you should try to share this burden. If I understood you correctly you want your husband to recover more than he does, so I want to ask you; would he want to recover if you didn't do anything about it?
I will be keeping an eye on your journal, and I think you are welcome to write about your bad eating habits or your addiction to computer games.
Stay strong
t
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t
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| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #4 on Sept 9, 2007, 9:56am » | |
I would like to echo doppelganger's comments...it is great that you are so willing to be supportive and forgiving...many men here would love to have such a wife...but IMO forgiveness should only be an option if he is truly working on the problem and slips...you said he is on Day 10...is he doing that under his own power?...does he have a real plan? Does he really want to quit, or is he just trying to appease you?
As a PA myself, the hardest part for me to read is what YOU say HE needs to do...my humble opinion is that you need to stop buying him books, making his plans...in my mind, your only recourse is that you will no longer tolerate this behavior and it is totally up to him whether he believes the marriage is worth saving and then do something about it. If he is not, then the ball is in your court...not to change him, because you can't...but to protect yourself and your child from a lifetime of living this way.
In the meantime, you must treat your own overeating in the same way...be accountable to someone when you slip, for instance. It's really the same thing he's going through, although my opinion is that the porn is more devastating to the family...maybe I think that because I'm learning what my personal addiction has done to mine...
Your journal here is a great step forward...I'll be praying for you and your husband.
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empower
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| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #5 on Sept 9, 2007, 1:27pm » | |
Glad to have you with us, Amazinggrace! My favourite 'recovery' hymn, by the way....
Keep coming back,
Empower
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AmazingGrace
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Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like ME.
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| | Thanks for responding. :)
« Reply #6 on Sept 10, 2007, 12:01am » | |
Thanks for your perspectives, doppelganger & t. I think that's my biggest struggle right now and the source of a lot of our conflict--how much I want/need him to make this a priority, and how my desperation almost makes him want to rebell against it.
Doppleganger asked--"Would he want to recover if you didn't do anything about it?"
That's a good question. I think when I have a little time with hubby, I'm going to have to ask him that.
I have to admit, my response to your comments was tears and a little bit of panic. Here's what I'm afraid of.
1) I'm afraid this will never end.
His addiction has been going on for a long time--a twelve year marriage plus six years before that. We've had quite a few confrontations through the years, and he's always returned to it.
This time felt different. I'd never been so specific with him. I've never made an ultimatum. And it really seemed like things were changing. I was falling in love with him again, we were actually making love on a regular basis.
But he has still relapsed several times, most of which he continued to try to hide from me, until he realized the grace comes more quickly when he asks for it.
2) I'm afraid he will continue to choose porn over me. His PA eats at the heart of my belief in myself. I'm a homemaker and mom. My marriage and my son are my "job." I'm not a great housekeeper. I can be impatient. I'm not hot. I'm not thin. I'm not young. In my weak moments I forget the history we have together, that we enjoy laughing together, doing projects. I forget that his PA is not "about" me--that he can love me and still be a weak human. But when I'm doubting myself, I don't feel like I offer much in exchange for the thrill and variety of porn.
Of course, if he keeps it up with the porn, he's not much of a catch, either, is he?
That said, I was actually hopping on to post some progress.
1) This was day 12 for him.
2) We'd been doing the irritable-with-each-other thing for the past few days, and he really tried to listen to me and figure out what was bothering me. Neither of us want to hurt each other, so it's crazy when we do.
3) I was able to share with him that when he takes steps forward in taking care of his own recovery, I am more than ready to step back.
Example: I was going over to a friend's house to take care of their kids for a few hours. Last time I left DH alone in the house (for 45 minutes) he had chosen p & mb.
I asked him if he was going to stay strong--I wanted him to save himself for me later that night.  At first he was offended that I was even asking him such a question. He has such a short term memory when he feels determined within himself--it was a mere 10 days previously that he hadn't managed to stay "sober" for 45 minutes.
I finally got it across that I still have wounds from the past. I'm sensitive and emotional. I'm a woman. I need occasional reassurance that I am (and therefore, this fight is) important to him. AND if he VOLUNTEERS that information, I don't have to ask it.
Just as now he's been volunteering the information when he slips, I've been freed from "checking up" on him.
4) Yesterday he actually hopped on the board (his first time) and read posts--he's currently got 100 days as his goal, so I think he was encouraged to see the list of others who are trying at the same time.
We've got a long road ahead of us, but it sure is good when I can look at my husband and have feelings of love and trust.
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doppelganger
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| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #7 on Sept 10, 2007, 5:07am » | |
Amazinggrace,
I have to admit sometimes I feel like I will always be an addict and this struggle will never end. But it will, like every addiction this can be overcome. And I think having you, your husband will overcome it more easily. If you want to help your husband you must understand this addiction, and I observe you are trying very hard to do so. First of all please note that slipping is a part of the recovery, this doesn't mean that a PA can slip anytime he/she wants, it means that he/she still can return to recovery. But it is a delicate issue, because when PA becomes weak he/she can use this as a excuse to slip. So his relapses should not put you out of the fight.
Also do not ever underestimate yourself nor let your husbands addiction to hurt your self esteem. You said "I don't feel like I offer much in exchange for the thrill and variety of porn" This is the most meaningless thing you could say: You are his wife and mother of his children, he is with you because he loves you and he needs you, as you do too. But he doesn't love porn nor needs it he is just addicted to it.
And you said "Of course, if he keeps it up with the porn, he's not much of a catch, either, is he? "
exactly! But this sentence should have come from your husband. As a porn addict I know that I am not much of a "catch" as long as I am addicted so I choose to change.
Also about you are desperation making him to rebel, this resembles me of a mother-son or a father-son relationship. You are his wife, you should not be his parent. And as a wife I thin you should show him the way and walk with him, do not lead him. You can do this by for example, fighting with your addictions such as overeating and computer games. If you make him understand that these are your addictions and you are willing to work on them and you need his support to do so, he will also will work on his addiction. With this I think the whole situation can change from you bearing all the burden to you both carry own burden and help each other whenever necessary.
Also I am happy that he came to this board, he can learn so much from here.
Stay strong
doppelganger
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AmazingGrace
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Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like ME.
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| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #8 on Sept 11, 2007, 4:37pm » | |
This morning I did some reading that was good for my emotional health. I'm realizing I've been really co-dependent in this recovery so far--feeling like what I do or don't do is going to "save" my husband or "make" him fail.
I am not responsible for my husband's recovery. I can let him know my limits, but I only make myself crazy when I worry about what I cannot control.
It really helps that he's shown some real determination since the last D-Day. As of yesterday, he's on 13 days--today is two weeks (he's marking the days on a calendar--I'm not snooping). He's also been a lot kinder and gentler with me, a lot more open. I love it when I can see him making an effort.
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Mayberry
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| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #9 on Sept 11, 2007, 4:48pm » | |
AmazingGrace: I feel incredibly blessed to have read your journal today, and I look forward to reading more. Thank you for the brave, difficult work you are sharing here. Jinn
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AmazingGrace
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Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like ME.
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| | Little Bits of Progress
« Reply #10 on Sept 12, 2007, 4:54pm » | |
Today was my fourth appointment with a counselor (guess that makes it almost a month!). I have so appreciated counseling. She's provided a listening ear without feeling like I'm exposing my husband to the judgment of my friends.
She's helped me to recognize the good in him. He is willing to make a change, and has definitely changed some behavior patterns already. Just in the time she and I been meeting, in fact, there have been some definite improvements. He and I are getting along better. I feel close to him, appreciate his strengths, and can see him for the good in him. He's being far more honest and open with me. And though he's not perfect (hey, neither am I) I can handle errors in judgment better than lying and coverups.
The thing we explored today is that every time I've had a counseling appointment so far, I've left feeling awesome, but then later the same day DH & I have argued & had blow-ups over stuff. My Counselor suggested that maybe the problem is that I've left feeling like "Hey, look at all the great stuff I'm doing--what is HE doing?" and I've projected those feelings on him. Instead of letting him be happy for me, I've been making him uncomfortable and loading him up with expectations and my desires for him to change.
I left the appointment after giving myself a pep-talk that I need to focus on the good and also prepare for a possible disappointment. Our blow-up two weeks ago was over him slipping later that same day.
So I got home and (co-dependent me) I couldn't keep from checking history. Sure enough, inappropriate You-tube stuff. Not nudity (YouTube doesn't let that stuff stick around long) but he'd been searching for "skimpy" videos. (Rolling eyes here) 
I got sad, got angry. Then I started telling myself the truth.
He's been doing good.
It's been two weeks (before that he was pretty typically going just a week at a time)
He actually read some of the Ten Keys book last week.
He's being honest with me, so if there was anything "up" he was going to tell me about it.
It's possible it was just a "slip," not a real "relapse"
His mistakes are not my fault. He chooses his behavior. I will not allow it to make me question myself or feel sad or guilty for him.
If he had slipped, he was probably feeling guilty enough for himself. He didn't need me to load it on for him.
So when he woke up, he came to hang out with me for a while and after a little while shared that he'd been tempted but after doing the one search on YouTube he'd told himself "This is stupid," turned it off, and went downstairs to read.
That's progress for him.
So thanks to Counselor, I was able to ask just a few questions and respond in a calm way.
A little later I realized that I still hadn't acknowledged the good he really is doing. When I said to DH "I really do appreciate the work you're doing and the effort you're making" his response was actually sweet. "You know, I could be doing better."
Isn't that crazy? My natural response would be to say what he said first--"You could be doing better" and his response would be negativity and rebellion.
When I acknowledged the good, he came to that conclusion himself. And that will take him so much further than hearing it from me.
Oh, Lord, grant us all wisdom. Guard our tongues. Help us to be positive even when we're angry and frustrated. You're in charge here. Help me to keep from trying to take that job from YOU!
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Mayberry
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| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #11 on Sept 13, 2007, 4:52pm » | |
Lovely. Thank you for sharing this. I have the sense that you were proud of yourself for a healthier set of reactions inside yourself? If that's true, I'd say you've every right to be proud! I continue to enjoy your honesty here. Hope you've had a great day today. J
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AmazingGrace
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Location: SO of a PA
| | Feeling Good about ME
« Reply #12 on Sept 14, 2007, 12:32pm » | |
You're right, Mayberry. I think the best thing to happen the last week or so was to really address how "co-dependent" I've been being. To give up trying to "control" DH in any way, though I've been clearly stating my desires & needs. I have also been attempting to speak in respectful ways to him and making sure I choose my words and actions in wise and self-controlled ways.
Yes, I do feel good. I can be an awesome parent and beautiful and talented person whatever my husband chooses to do. I'm "giving up" on controlling him without "giving up" on him.
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AmazingGrace
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Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like ME.
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| | Lynn's post about schedules
« Reply #13 on Sept 14, 2007, 12:32pm » | |
After a while responding to Lynn's post about her husband's work schedule, I realized I was starting to make it about me--is that what "high-jacking" a thread is?
I did want to expand upon my response, so I'm linking the thread and copying my response here.
http://lightwave.proboards48.com/index.c....89648644&page=1
Lynn--
My husband works 7 pm to 7 am nights--three shifts a week. When he's working, I sleep alone, but I sleep in peace--because he doesn't use P at work. When he's off, he can stay up anywhere from 3 to 5 am. I used to really struggle with staying up late because I wanted to keep tabs on him--1 to 2 am was the norm, but that was crazy. I have a four year old, and I would be cranky and short with him, have low to no energy, and I wasn't doing a good job as a mom.
I started being accountable to a friend for my bed-times and have gotten it so that I generally go to bed around 11 (since son sleeps til 7:30 or 8, that's not bad). As others have said, I can't control my husband's behavior. I need to control the only thing I can, which is making sure I have adequate sleep so my son doesn't suffer for my husband's and my own poor choices.
I'll second the "you can't control him" statement others have shared. As painful as that fact must be, you simply have to accept that statement. You can't change him. He has to own that process himself.
You can:
Tell him the truth. Say "I feel anxious when I think you're going to use p when I'm sleeping. I've been staying up late at night because somehow I've felt like my 'being around' would keep you accountable. I've realized that only you can be responsible for yourself and that I need to be responsible for me.
Our babies are important to me. I need to be an energetic mom, and I need to get to sleep at a decent time. My going to bed on time is not my permission for you to use porn. I am simply choosing to be self-controlled for the benefit of our children. I would appreciate it if you would be self-controlled as well."
If it will help you sleep better, ask him to pat you on the shoulder when he comes to bed. If you're comfortable with it, you can even ask him for honesty--to tell you if he did or didn't look at p.
Tell him: "I'm feeling weak and a little wounded. I know it may seem "childish" to you, but I really need reassurance that this is important to you, that the kids are I are important to you. You may be thinking these things, but it gives me peace of mind to hear them."
*************************************************
For us it's been a journey the past few months. In the beginning I kept a short leash on DH, using "History Audit" software to see what he'd being doing and when. Every time I found porn on the computer again, it would lead to a confrontation.
Eventually, DH started coming to me after the fact and telling me before I found out what he'd been doing. Once he realized that the lying and hiding were my #1 problem with what he was doing (with my moral objections against p being #2) he started being more consistent about this.
Since the last d-day, DH has been working more actively on recovery. He's been reading and keeping himself accountable, with a goal of 100-days porn free (we're on day 16). The interesting thing is that there's been another switch--now he's actually telling me he's feeling weak/tempted ahead of time.
Yesterday he actually shared a temptation with me that had come from looking at msn.com. [trigger]Apparently one of the stars of High School Musical had taken a nude photo for her boyfriend and it's now posted on the internet.[/trigger] I've actually found sites like msn.com to be a bad choice for a home page, because I used to waste 20-30 minutes practically every time I signed on to the computer clicking "news" links that were mostly forays into the evils of the world--crime, entertainment gossip masquerading as "news," etc.
Well, he told me that since hearing about that, he'd found himself thinking about it and wanting to have an on-line search. I tried to listen to his concerns non-judgementally. A temptation doesn't mean you've actually acted. It simply means you are aware of your own weakness. And he was sharing it with me, for goodness sake. How far removed is this from the secrecy of his worst phases of use?!!
It still was a little difficult for me to choose to go to bed at a decent hour last night. We had talked and I felt somewhat reassured. He'd been reading The Ten Keys and the marriage book Love and Respect in the past few days, and he knows he would tell me eventually.
This morning I had a twinge of anxiety & fear.  But I reminded myself how much improved our marriage is and how DH really is making a concerted effort, so I was prepared for anything. But when I asked him how it went last night, he said he'd read, worked on his hobby (sport rocketry!), watched a little TV, and then came to bed. He had such a grin on his face , and I couldn't help but do a little happy dance.
There's nothing like a few successes and good choices to help you see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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Mayberry
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| | Re: AmazingGrace's Journal
« Reply #14 on Sept 15, 2007, 6:45am » | |
AmazingGrace: I continue to follow your journal with great interest. Thank you for all of this. I re-read your plans for yourself and what you wish your husband would do. It was very helpful to me this morning. Just wanted to stop by and say hello. J
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